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post #91 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 04:41 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

I make good money and although I was hit pretty bad in the divorce I've recouped it and then some and I can afford to live a nice life and drive nice cars and go on nice vacations without any debt.

I made it obvious on my dating profiles that I had money.

But in a somewhat joking way that is totally uncharacteristic of me, I'd say that although I have money it doesn't mean I'd necessarily spend it on her so if she's going to date me thinking it's going to be a free ride she's going to be sorely disappointed.

I would always get tons of hits on the dating sites, never a weekend without a few dates and I cannot attribute all of that to my good looks and charming personality- they smelled the money and they wanted it.

There was a point I was trying to make there but I got so caught up in talking about myself I forgot what it was.

I'll return to edit this post if it comes to me.

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post #92 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 09:07 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

I know for me financial independence is a HUGE factor for me. The man needs to be working and saving and doing well. Not in serious debt. He doesnt have to be rich but successful in his field.

I was married to a man who I had to force to work and who exhorted alot of money from our accounts. I will never do that again.
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post #93 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 01:47 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Originally Posted by caruso View Post
...I was hit pretty bad in the divorce I've recouped it....
I think that's normal, and it's why a recently-divorced guy with some money issues, IMO, is not spoiled merchandise. My experience is that I gave her everything except my 401k when we split, then the month after, my industry tanked and I was jobless...lived on that 401k for 24 months, then finally got a job, paying 50% less than before. But, with newfound financial wisdom, within five years, my net worth had exceeded where it was before the split. Based on my conversations with other guys who've been through a split, this is pretty normal.

And...women who've dated divorced men...or divorced women...understand all this.

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I made it obvious on my dating profiles that I had money.
That sounds a little creepy/scary, unless you did it in a subtle way. I might say "financially secure" but I doubt I'd go further. Heck, being 60, I think I would say nothing...at this age, if you're not financially secure, there's probably a lot of other stuff you didn't do right, so I think the audience expects "financially secure" as a norm at my age.

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But in a somewhat joking way that is totally uncharacteristic of me, I'd say that although I have money it doesn't mean I'd necessarily spend it on her so if she's going to date me thinking it's going to be a free ride she's going to be sorely disappointed.
That's the thing for me - three times, I would take a woman on a rather expensive date - $100/person dinners (in 1999!)...and I learned that my simple approach to things lead me to consider most of those dinners rather pretentious...and all three women were, for my tastes, too invested in the idea that life cannot be enjoyed without spending a lot. Sort of the opposite of the naturally abundant life I prefer.

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I would always get tons of hits on the dating sites, never a weekend without a few dates and I cannot attribute all of that to my good looks and charming personality- they smelled the money and they wanted it.
I gotta ask - how long ago, how old were you, and just what kind of initial emails would they send to you? And what kinds of first-date activities did they expect?

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
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post #94 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 02:11 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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I know for me financial independence is a HUGE factor for me. The man needs to be working and saving and doing well. Not in serious debt. He doesnt have to be rich but successful in his field.

I was married to a man who I had to force to work and who exhorted alot of money from our accounts. I will never do that again.
I feel for you...if I ever felt I had to force someone to do anything, I'd probably leave before stooping that low.

Financial independence means different things to different people. IMO, it means matching lifestyle to income. This can be done with high income, or reducing one's material needs.

Question - if the man must be financially indepedent, just how independent must that be? To many, "independent" means "not requiring a job". And, are you as independent as you expect him to be? Do you expect him to manage the family finances or do you like to participate?

Just curious...if my wife and I split, I'd kind of like to know who I'm likely to meet out there.

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
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post #95 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 02:16 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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[in regard to posting on a dating profile that I make a lot of money]That sounds a little creepy/scary, unless you did it in a subtle way.
Why creepy/scary? I put it right out there, in a joking way, referring to my chosen profession and stating "yes I make a lot of money but that doesn't necessarily mean I'll share it with you". I've been told that by doing that I'm attracting the money grubbers but so what, I got a lot of first dates and like I said if that's their only motive they'll be sorely disappointed and that doesn't mean I won't have some fun with her along the way if you know what I mean.

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That's the thing for me - three times, I would take a woman on a rather expensive date - $100/person dinners (in 1999!)...and I learned that my simple approach to things lead me to consider most of those dinners rather pretentious...and all three women were, for my tastes, too invested in the idea that life cannot be enjoyed without spending a lot. Sort of the opposite of the naturally abundant life I prefer.
When I was dating post divorce, in between relationships that varied from months or years, I'd do a LOT of dating. Dozens upon dozens of first dates, only a fraction of which ever turned into something. At first I'd pay for a rather expensive first date dinner, then I finally got smart and the first dates were more like meetups at a diner or coffee shop or a drink at a local pub. Rather than expecting it to be great and being disappointed when it wasn't, my attitude became "expect it to be bad and be surprisingly delighted when things were good and she actually looked and acted just like her profile indicated she would".

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I gotta ask - how long ago, how old were you, and just what kind of initial emails would they send to you? And what kinds of first-date activities did they expect?
I started dating post divorce at the end of 2006 in my early 40s, and have been with my girlfriend for 5 years and this one looks to go the distance. None expected anything on the first date other than good old "getting to know you" conversation but believe it or not, I never got one objection when I used to offer a fancy dinner for the first date and if we ordered a few drinks and maybe some apps and the check was a few bucks I found myself surprised when someone would offer to pay her half- it was extremely rare.

There was a cute redhead I dated for 2 weeks, good chemistry, things were going well but during those 2 weeks we went out for dinner a half dozen times and not once did she offer to pay. Finally I said "how about you picking up the tab next time?". She said "I don't do that, I'm an old fashioned gal". Obviously she had responded to the financial part of my profile, although I won't deny that my good looks and charming wit and personality must have been in the mix to a lesser extent but I digress. When she said that, I knew it was one of the last things I'd ever listen to from her. Didn't even stick around long enough to get sex out of her.

I don't recall anything special about the messages they'd send me although I do recall thinking how strange it was that of the half dozen or so that led to a longer term thing, they had almost always been the ones to make first contact (including my girlfriend). I guess they were a better "profile picker" than I was.

I went back into my folder and found the first message I got from my gf.

It starts out like this.."Your profile is amusing. FYI I passed all your checkpoints..". Then she gave me a brief one paragraph bio about herself and some of her interests that aligned with some of the ones I put on my profile. We sometimes talk about how odd it was that we didn't speak even once on the phone prior to meeting in person.
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post #96 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Divorced men of TAM, how did you find single women react to a middle-aged man with financial limitations despite everything else about him (physical shape, personality, social status, engaging career) being "dating material"?
It's VERY, VERY simple. You'll know for certain after three dates.

The "keepers" will offer to split date costs occasionally or offer to treat you without hesitation.

The women who "need to feel taken care of" (women speak for gold digger) you toss like junk mail.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #97 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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I think their face would betray it all when they see super-modest living quarters disproportionate to the salary range.
I think a lot depends on the man's situation. I dated a guy who made well into six figures, but basically supported his wife, paid her mortgage, and had one daughter in an expensive, private college who was likely going to grad school after as well as two more kids who would be in college shortly. In other words, he had about a decade of living in pretty steep debt ahead of him. Now, that isn't why it didn't work for us, but it did make me think we wouldn't be good long term.

And yes, I make my own money and support myself. Not looking for a sugar daddy!
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post #98 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 04:27 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Why creepy/scary?

There was a cute redhead I dated for 2 weeks, good chemistry, things were going well but during those 2 weeks we went out for dinner a half dozen times and not once did she offer to pay. Finally I said "how about you picking up the tab next time?". She said "I don't do that, I'm an old fashioned gal". Obviously she had responded to the financial part of my profile, although I won't deny that my good looks and charming wit and personality must have been in the mix to a lesser extent but I digress. When she said that, I knew it was one of the last things I'd ever listen to from her. Didn't even stick around long enough to get sex out of her.
Am I reading this right? You took her out for dinner six times in two weeks???
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post #99 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 04:36 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Am I reading this right? You took her out for dinner six times in two weeks???
It was years ago, so I wrote that from vague memory but yeah I'd say we went out every couple of days over a period of about 2 weeks, could have been less, but we got off to a hot start so we saw each other several times in the beginning.

I had a few short term things start like that. It's a bit off topic but it's been my experience that the ones that take off quickly run hot and burn out fast.
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post #100 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-19-2016, 09:57 PM
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I think the replies here are interesting. I started a thread awhile back (since deleted) about dating/having a relationship with a man in his mid fifties who had zero financial stability (could not keep up with his bills, deep in growing debt), didn't have enough money to pay his half of even a (local) weekend away together, and was constantly unavailable/working and stressed... because he chose to pay more than he could reasonably afford toward his child's college. Some replies, especially from the men, were nasty... along the lines of no woman should have a (negative) opinion on how they choose to support their child, etc.

Interesting that here the opinions from people are that yes, financial stability matters in a potential partner. And that is okay for it to matter if has the potential to negatively affect you/harm you.

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post #101 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 03:29 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

@caruso

What age are you? My experience with men and money is that when a woman offers to pay she cheapens herself in the guy's eye. OMG, the only way she can go out is by paying her own way.

and what's worse, of course, is that all that money that the guy saves is then spent on another woman whether he is intentionally dating or she is "just a friend."

The last scenario that I had with this is with my husband during the first year of our dating. Knowing what I know, I can see a couple of occasions, nearly perfectly matched where he hassled me to pay for the date and then within a couple of days “met up” (since they were just friends, it wasn’t a date…. You know) with his “just a friend ex” and well, paid for everything even her transportation to and from the date. (something he did not do for me until after 18 months of dating).

After we had a discussion about these things, he immediately changed……… but this has influenced my opinion of men and money and dating.

It’s very difficult these days for me to believe that a man who sees an LT with a woman will hassle her to (whatever you want to call it) “go dutch” or “share expenses.”
IOW, as soon as a guy asks a woman to help pay, the assumption would be that either he is multi dating or he just doesn’t see a future with that woman.

Last edited by NextTimeAround; 10-20-2016 at 03:44 AM.
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post #102 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:45 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

When a woman offers to pay she is cheapening herself in his eyes? I don't know what you are talking about. men like little surprises too. Despite what some say, we don't just spend all that money expecting sex in the end. In my mind when a woman offers to pay, it says, "I enjoyed my time with you as well, let me take care of this this time." Men enjoy being taken away for a weekend, just as much as women do. One of the things I hated in my marriage was her expectation that I would just pay for everything. I don't know how many times she took me to dinner, that I ended up paying the bill.
No, having had that experience, I have to say it is a real turn on, when a woman offers to pay once in a while. It shows she isn't going to be dependent on me and that she understands she has some responsibility in the relationship as well.
Plus two people can really enjoy so much more when both contribute. While I may not mind spending $100 taking some one out to dinner. A much nice meal can be had for $150 when both contribute.

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post #103 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 09:10 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

@NextTimeAround - I agree with Ynot. I usually pay for dates because I feel like if I'm asking a woman out it is my treat. However, it is nice to be treated occasionally too and makes me feel like she isn't taking me for granted. I don't ask a woman to pay on a date, but I sure notice if she occasionally offers and think very highly about that gesture.

Also, the concept that a guy saving money will just be spent on another woman is actually rather offensive. It implies a level of control and entitlement on the woman's part that is hard for me to comprehend. If a woman that I was dating told me she wanted me to pay for her so I didn't have money to go out and spend with any of my other friends (either male or female) I'd just laugh at her and show her the door. Firstly, my dating budget is a small fraction of my income so it makes no difference financially. Secondly, if I wanted to hang out with a friend and couldn't afford to go anywhere I'd just choose a free activity. Thirdly, if I'm in a committed relationship and the woman doesn't trust me around other women then we have far more serious problems to deal with. Fourthly, if all my discretionary income is being spent on dating then I need to reprioritize my budgeting.
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post #104 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 09:21 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

I live pretty simply. I make a good salary, but much of it goes towards retirement. I live in a small house in a nice neighborhood, I drive a decent pickup, and I try to dress nicely and take care of myself. I don't date very often, but when I do I always pay everything. I open doors for women, pull out their chairs...I'm just old fashioned that way.

I have become very picky about the women I look at for dating. I have had chances to date women where I live now, and have gone on one date recently, but I have not settled into any long term relationship because I have this very specific list of requirements that few if any women can meet. I am waiting for the most compatible woman I can find, because up to now I have been disappointed in my relationships. The most important requirement is that she cannot drink alcohol around me, nor can we have it in our house. I am a recovering alcoholic, meaning that I will rarely step into a bar or go to parties where people are getting drunk. There is just way too much temptation for me. So the woman I am looking for is a gal who is not big into partying and socializing over drinks. She will have to put up with my being gone four nights a week to my AA meetings, nightly calls from AA members that I sponsor, and an overall a life of teetotalling. The majority of women I have met don't want to deal with these restrictions.

So right there I have reduced my pool of potential mates by three fourths...
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post #105 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 10:34 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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I feel for you...if I ever felt I had to force someone to do anything, I'd probably leave before stooping that low.

Financial independence means different things to different people. IMO, it means matching lifestyle to income. This can be done with high income, or reducing one's material needs.

Question - if the man must be financially indepedent, just how independent must that be? To many, "independent" means "not requiring a job". And, are you as independent as you expect him to be? Do you expect him to manage the family finances or do you like to participate?

Just curious...if my wife and I split, I'd kind of like to know who I'm likely to meet out there.
Independent means working. And I have worked and saved since I was 15 years old. I made the mistake of letting the ex manage the finances. I will never do that again even if I marry again. I will take care of it or we would have separate finances. Of course Im starting over thanks to his spending but I have saved quite abit in the years since the divorce.

I have a good job and only carry a mortgage. No other debt. I dont believe it in. I have a 401K which he didnt get in the divorce and I have the kids colleges paid for already.

I dont expect a man to pay every time. But I do expect it on the first date. After that, we can trade off on when and who pays. Its not a big deal.

Honestly, I think men want a more needy and nagging woman. I find I am too "hands off" and let them live they way they want when not with me. I find the men seems to chase the one that treats them badly or is overly demanding which I refuse to do. My dad was too good of a man to disrespect my prospects with being overly dramatic and needy. He taught me to respect the man I am with and give him space to be a man. Maybe modern men arent into that anymore because I find the opposite happening in dating midlife.

Last edited by bkyln309; 10-20-2016 at 10:41 AM.
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