Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
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post #106 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 10:40 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Originally Posted by Bananapeel View Post
@NextTimeAround - I agree with Ynot. I usually pay for dates because I feel like if I'm asking a woman out it is my treat. However, it is nice to be treated occasionally too and makes me feel like she isn't taking me for granted. I don't ask a woman to pay on a date, but I sure notice if she occasionally offers and think very highly about that gesture.

Also, the concept that a guy saving money will just be spent on another woman is actually rather offensive. It implies a level of control and entitlement on the woman's part that is hard for me to comprehend. If a woman that I was dating told me she wanted me to pay for her so I didn't have money to go out and spend with any of my other friends (either male or female) I'd just laugh at her and show her the door. Firstly, my dating budget is a small fraction of my income so it makes no difference financially. Secondly, if I wanted to hang out with a friend and couldn't afford to go anywhere I'd just choose a free activity. Thirdly, if I'm in a committed relationship and the woman doesn't trust me around other women then we have far more serious problems to deal with. Fourthly, if all my discretionary income is being spent on dating then I need to reprioritize my budgeting.
Thanks for addressing my concerns. I don't know about other women, but IRL, I would not put it quite the way that you or I have on this message board.

The times when I felt that I was being "macked" include when dating my first husband and my second husband.

It was the situation with my second husband while we were dating that brought me here. The elements of that specific situation include:
1. He claimed that he preferred me over his "friend."
2. We got into the habit of seeing each other half of the week. (time as a resource)
3. He knew that I wasn't working due to getting chemotherapy but still hassled me over paying for stuff.
4. She told him that she was making GBP40k but I found a lot evidence in which he paid for a quite a few things, some of which he never (during this period) offered to pay for me.... even at a time when he knew that she was actively looking to date other men.

and yet, he reassured me that I was the "girlfriend" and she was "just a friend."

When I grew a backbone before the one year anniversary of our dating, I told him that I wanted the same situation that she had with him. I wanted my bar tabs, taxi fares and everything else in between paid for. I wanted the freedom go to still look for other men while expecting to jump when I cam back around.

When I was able to show him all the receipts and mentions of spending money between the two of them. He changed.

Certainly, if I am just going out with a guy I'm not going to expect him to underwrite my social life with him.

But I do feel very strongly that when I am making an investment in a long term relationship, there will never be an acceptable reason that my boyfriend will feel comfortable nickle and diming me when he gives princess service to some other unrelated woman.

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post #107 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 10:44 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

I have been out of the dating scene since the late Cretaceous, so maybe I'm out of touch.

I've always thought that the person doing the inviting should assume that they are paying, but graciously accept an offer by their date to split costs.

I don't think a date should ever be expensive enough that the person doing the inviting cares who pays. The goal is to meet someone and have a good time, not demonstrate your wealth. If I were dating now, I'd take them to the nearby inexpensive, but really good and interesting ethnic restaurant, not to the ultra-expensive steak house. (after asking about any diet limits of course)




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@caruso

What age are you? My experience with men and money is that when a woman offers to pay she cheapens herself in the guy's eye. OMG, the only way she can go out is by paying her own way.

and what's worse, of course, is that all that money that the guy saves is then spent on another woman whether he is intentionally dating or she is "just a friend."

The last scenario that I had with this is with my husband during the first year of our dating. Knowing what I know, I can see a couple of occasions, nearly perfectly matched where he hassled me to pay for the date and then within a couple of days “met up” (since they were just friends, it wasn’t a date…. You know) with his “just a friend ex” and well, paid for everything even her transportation to and from the date. (something he did not do for me until after 18 months of dating).

After we had a discussion about these things, he immediately changed……… but this has influenced my opinion of men and money and dating.

It’s very difficult these days for me to believe that a man who sees an LT with a woman will hassle her to (whatever you want to call it) “go dutch” or “share expenses.”
IOW, as soon as a guy asks a woman to help pay, the assumption would be that either he is multi dating or he just doesn’t see a future with that woman.
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post #108 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 11:44 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

My boyfriend has always insisted on paying for pretty much everything, ever since we first met, which took me completely by surprise. I had never been with a man who insisted on paying, and it was really nice to be spoiled. I was surprised by how much that meant to me, to be told, I think you're someone worth spending my discretionary income. It was weird for me, at first. I was so used to paying my own way, all the time. Early on, I made mention that I didn't want to take advantage of his generosity, and he said that he would make it clear if he thought I was taking advantage.

And I make sure that I'm not taking advantage. I always say thank you and tell him how much I enjoyed dinner, or make sure that he knows how much I appreciate it. On occasion, he's asked me to pick up dinner on my way over to his place, and when he tries to give me cash to cover dinner, I won't take it. And while I can't afford to take him out like he takes me out (he has pretty high food standards), I can cook. I mean, like really cook. He can cook well enough so that he doesn't starve, but he can't come even close to what I can do. So I cook for him, and we'll eat in instead. I spoil him in whatever way I best can.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #109 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 04:28 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Originally Posted by bkyln309 View Post
Independent means working. And I have worked and saved since I was 15 years old. I made the mistake of letting the ex manage the finances. I will never do that again even if I marry again. I will take care of it or we would have separate finances. Of course Im starting over thanks to his spending but I have saved quite abit in the years since the divorce.

I have a good job and only carry a mortgage. No other debt. I dont believe it in. I have a 401K which he didnt get in the divorce and I have the kids colleges paid for already.

I dont expect a man to pay every time. But I do expect it on the first date. After that, we can trade off on when and who pays. Its not a big deal.

Honestly, I think men want a more needy and nagging woman. I find I am too "hands off" and let them live they way they want when not with me. I find the men seems to chase the one that treats them badly or is overly demanding which I refuse to do. My dad was too good of a man to disrespect my prospects with being overly dramatic and needy. He taught me to respect the man I am with and give him space to be a man. Maybe modern men arent into that anymore because I find the opposite happening in dating midlife.
Well, I'm independent, but I don't have a job LOL. I was good enough at savings that I had no need to wait for a traditional retirement age. I keep busy, though, lots of unfinished projects here, and I'm forming a company - said company is in the dollar-draining phase right now, but not so much drain that I'm pressured to speed it up. I like seeing progress on a dozen fronts at once and it's OK if I work on one for a few months and different ones at other times.

I have no idea what modern men are like, I just know me, and the last thing I want is a needy or nagging person of either gender in my life. I've had as many needy/nagging bosses at work as any woman I dated. I tend to live a simple life, and that seems to appeal to relatively independent and emotionally stable and complete women.

I "get" starting over - did it twice myself, once due to a split and once due to two years of no income other than odd jobs. With your aversion to debt, you'll be in good shape soon enough.

Some counselors advocate keeping his and hers money separate enough that you both feel safe from the other person's style being different from yours. Not sure that solves all problems, though....

Best of luck!

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
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post #110 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:49 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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When a woman offers to pay she is cheapening herself in his eyes? I don't know what you are talking about. men like little surprises too. Despite what some say, we don't just spend all that money expecting sex in the end. In my mind when a woman offers to pay, it says, "I enjoyed my time with you as well, let me take care of this this time." Men enjoy being taken away for a weekend, just as much as women do. One of the things I hated in my marriage was her expectation that I would just pay for everything. I don't know how many times she took me to dinner, that I ended up paying the bill.
No, having had that experience, I have to say it is a real turn on, when a woman offers to pay once in a while. It shows she isn't going to be dependent on me and that she understands she has some responsibility in the relationship as well.
Plus two people can really enjoy so much more when both contribute. While I may not mind spending $100 taking some one out to dinner. A much nice meal can be had for $150 when both contribute.
Yep

If a woman wouldn't contribute to dating then I won't be dating her long for sure. I only met One who wanted me to pay for everything. She is an x
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post #111 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:21 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

When my husband and I were dating he paid for everything - he wanted to. I took care of him in other ways - cooking his favourite meal, making candlelit dinners and things like that. When I sold my car I was really excited and wanted to take him out for dinner, so I did, but he kept offering his card to pay the bill (I paid).

I was working when I met him but then I lost my job. I spent my last $5 on a red rose for him, and when I gave it to him you'd think I'd handed him a million dollars, lol. "No one's ever given me flowers before! Oh wow!" so cute

I guess I'm just lucky, he never saw me as a burden
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post #112 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:34 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

When we started dating my hb insisted on paying for pretty much everything even though I'd offer.

Now that we've been together 11 years and I make a good bit more I pay a big chunk of our bills and almost always pay when we go out.

I don't mind. I have a very egalitarian view of relationships.
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post #113 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-21-2016, 09:25 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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]When we started dating my hb insisted on paying for pretty much everything even though I'd offer.

Now that we've been together 11 years and I make a good bit more I pay a big chunk of our bills and almost always pay when we go out.

I don't mind. I have a very egalitarian view of relationships.
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Where do you find men like that?

Why is it on a message board that for every man who says that they expect the woman to pay during dating, there are women who say that their partner except one single cent from them?
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post #114 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 12:32 AM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
Where do you find men like that?

Why is it on a message board that for every man who says that they expect the woman to pay during dating, there are women who say that their partner except one single cent from them?
With online dating a lot of times you hash out those details before you ever meet, during the early email and texting phase. I have even seen it written in women's profiles that they expect dinner dates and to be treated like a "Lady" which translates into not paying. Some men don't mind paying for everything and others do. I have a few female friends who insist on paying 1/2 of any date they go one to avoid what they call "date night expectations". I think people land all over the spectrum when it comes to who pays. I don't mind paying for most as long as I don't feel taken advantage of.
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post #115 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 12:11 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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With online dating a lot of times you hash out those details before you ever meet, during the early email and texting phase. I have even seen it written in women's profiles that they expect dinner dates and to be treated like a "Lady" which translates into not paying. Some men don't mind paying for everything and others do. I have a few female friends who insist on paying 1/2 of any date they go one to avoid what they call "date night expectations". I think people land all over the spectrum when it comes to who pays. I don't mind paying for most as long as I don't feel taken advantage of.
I remember seeing an article in the Daily Mail about 12 years ago in which a reporter created an online dating profile stating that those who made less than half a million need not apply. This was well before the financial meltdown and with the preponderance of the financial services industry in the UK, the demographics did exist.

However, the reporter said that she either got flaming responses or sleazy responses. I think she chose not to meet any other responders. I wish I had saved that article. It would be interesting to see if any other publications tried it on as well.

I really don't believe that "asking for what you want" on this occasion works. Way too bold and self-centered, you show your hand, and well, you give other people something to talk about.

Imagine if a guy said, if you don't put out by the first date, then you need not apply.

I really do believe now that men know what to do when you are truly number one in their lives. And well, I had to give him that ultimatum to push that decision along.

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post #116 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 02:56 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
Where do you find men like that?

Why is it on a message board that for every man who says that they expect the woman to pay during dating, there are women who say that their partner except one single cent from them?
I can't say I read the entire thread and I certainly can't speak for all men, but I have yet to see anyone say they expect the woman to pay during dating. What I have seen is men who say they are not offended by a woman offering to pay their share or even for a date. Because after all, men like to be treated once in a while too. Perhaps somewhere some poor schmuck is sitting around lonely and distraught because he thinks a woman should pay his way too, but I have yet to meet one, at least here or in real life.

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post #117 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 03:21 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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With online dating a lot of times you hash out those details before you ever meet, during the early email and texting phase. I have even seen it written in women's profiles that they expect dinner dates and to be treated like a "Lady" which translates into not paying. Some men don't mind paying for everything and others do. I have a few female friends who insist on paying 1/2 of any date they go one to avoid what they call "date night expectations". I think people land all over the spectrum when it comes to who pays. I don't mind paying for most as long as I don't feel taken advantage of.
This would be me . When I was single, I expected the man to cover the food bill. It was up to him to decide where we'd go for the main meal but if the date was going well (didn't necessarily mean there had to be chemistry per se, just having a good time), I recommended, and paid for, after dinner coffee/dessert at my favorite cafe or I would recommend continuing the date at a local music venue where I covered the first couple of rounds.

Today, were I to find myself single again.....I wouldn't change a thing. Splitting the bill 50/50 or going dutch on everything doesn't feel like a date to me. Splitting the evening's activities does.

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post #118 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 11:04 PM
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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Being wealthy and focusing on things that make us happy are not mutually exclusive.

And yes salary and assets are important to me because I have a lot to protect for myself and my kids. Not sure why that is hard for some to understand.
Wow, just saw this. First off who ever said that they are mutually exclusive. Secondly, who said they didn't understand? I couldn't care any less what your wants and needs are, they aren't mine. All I am saying is that as far as I am concerned, it is your loss, not mine. I am perfectly happy not worrying about what any one else's expectations are.

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post #119 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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So right there I have reduced my pool of potential mates by three fourths...
I understand. It must be equivalent to reading a nice profile and almost falling in love with a woman, and then in the end it says: "I don't drink"... Such profiles need to be tagged and visible from afar!

Kudos on your recovery, all jokes aside.
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post #120 of 121 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Men: Financial Limitations During New Single Life

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I can't say I read the entire thread and I certainly can't speak for all men, but I have yet to see anyone say they expect the woman to pay during dating. What I have seen is men who say they are not offended by a woman offering to pay their share or even for a date. Because after all, men like to be treated once in a while too. Perhaps somewhere some poor schmuck is sitting around lonely and distraught because he thinks a woman should pay his way too, but I have yet to meet one, at least here or in real life.
My impression is that offering to pay on the first couple of dates means she decided she doesn't like me.
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