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Normalcy

3K views 27 replies 11 participants last post by  MJJEAN 
#1 ·
Post divorce I am coming to find out that what was happening in my marriage was not "normal". I have come to understand, that for most of us, whatever is/was going on is typically accepted as normal. I was married for 24 years. So for 24 years what happened in my marriage became my norm. I didn't realize it at that time, but it was this acceptance that had made me so unhappy.
Now as I go out into this new unexplored world of being a middle aged single guy, meeting lots of other divorced men and women, I am discovering that what I had was not normal. In fact what I am finding out, is that there really is no normal. Reality is not normal or unnormal, but is either acceptable or not.
I was convinced, that vanilla duty sex was the best that could be expected, because that was all I knew. I was convinced that being a walking ATM was my lot in life, because that was all I knew. I was convinced that ceding my happiness to another was expected, because that was all I knew.
All of that made me very unhappy. I just was waiting to die. When it ended I wanted to die, I was devastated because everything I thought I knew was destroyed before my eyes. All of the things I had accepted were no longer there to be accepted.
Now I am finding out that there are women (lots of them it seems) that seek out and enjoy sex. That sex is not considered a duty, but rather a celebration of life. That there are women, who truly do not want to taken care of. Women who take pride in their independence and real self sufficiency. I understand that I am responsible for my own happiness. And truly for the first time in my life, I am happy by my own actions and not dependent on others.
I know I have said this before, but I truly mean it - this is probably no surprise to some of you, but to me these are revelations and epiphanies.
 
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#2 ·
Is amazing isn't it? I look back at all the things i had to endure and ask myself, why didn't I get out sooner? What in the world was I thinking? But the way I see it, all that made me stronger and never again I will take crap from any female.. After 19 years of marriage, now is my time to live

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#3 ·
Congrats, normal is subjective. Look no further than culture and how alien it feels to be in a different country. Do the Fisty method and question yourself and ask yourself why and how does this make me feel.

I was reading a story on another forum where the OP discovered she was not happy being married and loved the serial dating life, I have a friend that feels the same way, I know of people happily married for several decades and never lost that in-love feeling. They act like teenagers even though middle-aged. My aunt has a bf she only sees on the weekend. I ran across a couple where the husband is gay but is in-love with his wife but they do not have sex together and have an open marriage to give each other what they need sexually outside the marriage.
 
#8 ·
Congrats, normal is subjective.
QFT

@Ynot
Glad you had this epiphany. Many of us are unable to get out of our own heads. We live in a bubble of our own making. We think our experiences, thoughts, relationships are normative.

“...people live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true... that is how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts... their reality may all be an illusion.” ― Uchiha Itachi (from the Japanese comic book, Naruto, chapter 385)
 
#4 ·
Good for you Ynot. I agree completely with your observation. All of this is a process and everyone is moving along at their own speed. I think that the less attached you are to a life partner the more choices you end up with on how you want to live your life, so single life really works well for self discovery. This is especially true for people that had a less than optimal marriage and had to sacrifice parts of themselves for their spouse. Enjoy the ride and wherever it takes you, my friend.
 
#5 ·
It brings to mind the "Invisible Fence" that dog owners bury in their yard.

The dogs wear a high-pitch emitting noise collar. When the dog gets near the energized underground transmitter [cable] it "lights up" the collar; the noise forcing the dog backwards.

When a man gets married, he gladly puts on a similar collar. What he does not realize is the batteries in the collar go dead after the honeymoon period. Any further high-pitched noise [after that] then commences from DW.

Some men test and re-test the collar. Some men do not.
 
#6 ·
Funny. We had two dogs. A Golden Retriever that was beautiful but dumber than dirt and a mutt that was as smart as a whip. I put up an invisible fence. The golden would hear the beep and would stop and go no further. The mutt would gather his steam, bolt thru the fence, yelping all the way, go out and party for a day or so and then come back dragging some dead creature it killed. In the meantime, the golden would pretty much kill any plants (especially flowers) within the fenced area.
So I decided to enclose an area with a real physical fence to contain both of them. I used my side yard, which was bigger than most city lots (about 50x100) and put up a woven wire fence. I decided I would keep it mowed but didn't bother planting anything else. So far so good - for about a week!
The golden would go along the fence looking for one weak weld. She would then work the wires with her nose until all the welds around it failed and there would be a hole big enough for her to go thru. She would then wander around the rest of the yard (3+acres) killing whatever flowers were there. In the meantime the mutt refused to go thru the same gaping hole in the fence despite the fact that it was way more than big enough for him to get thru.
I finally just gave up. The golden was old and wasn't going to last much longer anyways. I didn't plant many more flowers, but I also didn't bury any more ground hogs, rabbits, squirrels or occasional deer or deer part the mutt dragged home from his adventures.
 
#9 ·
In fact what I am finding out, is that there really is no normal. Reality is not normal or unnormal, but is either acceptable or not.
I like this part of your post the best and of course I completely agree with it. We all have our dealbreakers, and we draw our line in the sand in very different places. As we gain more experience, and self confidence, that line gets moved forward, sometimes by quite a distance.

It brings to mind the "Invisible Fence" that dog owners bury in their yard.

The dogs wear a high-pitch emitting noise collar. When the dog gets near the energized underground transmitter [cable] it "lights up" the collar; the noise forcing the dog backwards.
That's a completely inaccurate description of how an electric fence works. For starters -and anyone who reads this can easily nod their head without knowing a thing about electric fences- "noise cannot force a dog backwards".
 
#10 ·
That's a completely inaccurate description of how an electric fence works. For starters -and anyone who reads this can easily nod their head without knowing a thing about electric fences- "noise cannot force a dog backwards".
*nodding*

The e-fences I have seen all use shock at various levels to keep the animal contained. Which, for some dogs, is useless.

As they approach the e-fence, the collar sends a small electric current. The current, and discomfort, increase as the animal gets closer to the fence. However, those collars have a range and if the dog just runs through, it's only uncomfortable for moments before the dog has exceeded the range and is then totally lose.

Also, e-fences can actually teach a dog NOT to come back. If the dog runs passed the range of the collar and then decides to return, the collar will send current when the dog is back in range and will shock the dog for coming back as well as for leaving.

@Ynot I have questions!

What was your parents relationship like? Were they (either together or in other marriages) in a happy and affectionate relationship? Did you have other sexual relationships before with partners who were into sex with you? I just don't understand how people like yourself end up thinking it's normal to be in a duty sex when required businesslike marriage. Did you have no life experience and/or observations that showed you loving and passionate long term relationships?
 
#17 ·
It's only been in the last few years that I've realized that the dynamic in my house growing up wasn't "normal".

My awakening started when I realized that whenever I'd share stories about my nutjob family people would look at me like I'd grown a second head.

I used to play the filthy, drugged out voicemails one of my nutty sisters would leave me for my coworkers and one of them told me that if she hadn't heard it for herself she would have thought I was either making it up or exaggerating.

It was a real eye opener for her.

I'm not sure my hb knew people like my family existed before he met me.

Let's just say that her more people learn about my family the more impressive it becomes that I turned out ok.

Yet to me this was normal.

Everything is subject to perspective.
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#20 ·
I grew up with WWII combat vets who later became alcoholics. They were happy drunks, having left their fighting days behind them.

Because of their antics, growing up in a nice middle class neighborhood was chaos and embarrassing for my siblings and me..

I followed in their combat boots, leaving the alcohol behind me...............well, 98 proof behind. A few beers are good!
 
#21 ·
I grew up with WWII combat vets who later became alcoholics. They were happy drunks, having left their fighting days behind them.
Because of their antics, growing up in a nice middle class neighborhood was chaos and embarrassing for my siblings and me..

I followed in their combat boots, leaving the alcohol behind me...............well, 98 proof behind. A few beers are good!
My family were Vietnam and 1st Gulf War vets. Also mostly happy drunks. Also grew up in middle class neighborhoods. So many stories. So many. Most freakin hilarious to me, but would probably horrify more than a few posters.
 
#22 ·
A very keen observation, OP. Have been thinking about this lately. For whatever reason, discussing sex was so uncomfortable for my XH and the longer we were married, the more disinterested he became in sex in general. Divorce was a real eye-opener because I discovered some men actually like sex, embrace it, and are attracted to me as I am, in spite of the fact that I am not 20 and am a bit chubby for today's beauty standards. "Normal" in terms of sex, normal in terms of division of chores,normal in terms of parenting responsibilities; in contrast to you, though, the gap between what he thought was normal and what I thought was normal was what frustrated me, rather than the unhappiness with the accepted "normal" status quo. I felt like he was weird not to want to spend more, or any, time with his kid. He thought I was weird to expect him to spend time with his son when he got home. Lesson learned. Communication in detail is something we can all work on in our future interactions with the opposite sex. "Here's what I want" was something I felt guilty for saying in the past. I felt it was selfish. I have been working on my communication.

How much of women enjoying sex is because it's "new sex" do you think? I was pondering that too, because after a few months, the sex started to wane with my most recent BF (we broke up for other reasons). Maybe it's just the result of being with one person for so long?
 
#23 ·
I have thought about your last statement as well. I don't really know. I do think that "new sex" is exciting. Neither of you are sure where the boundaries lie so exploring the new frontier is exciting. Even if you have talked about it before, you really don't know exactly what to expect until you experience it. I do think as limits become known and you realize that some things are a no go or things become routine, that the petals fall off the bloom. It may be that so far I have yet to meet someone who has just blown me away outside of the bedroom. I haven't really fallen for anybody yet. It may be that once that happens (falling for someone) the sex will just enhance the relationship rather than define it? Because so far all it has done is define it.

In the meantime I have met several different women, who have fallen for me, or at least claim to have. They have told me they love me, I am not really sure if it is because they expect me to want to hear that or if they really mean it. I think for some women saying they are in love makes having sex alright in their eyes so they say it so they don't think less of themselves. Just another aspect of life that I am learning about.

Right now, I am about learning as much about myself as I can so that I can find what I truly want out of life. I really don't know. I just have to continue exploring until I find out.
 
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