I already know what I should do - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 04:49 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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Originally Posted by SunCMars
My answer is one you do not want to hear.

You want, you want, you want.

96% of women, 99% of women who have class want a man who wants them....exclusively.

You are interested in a friend with sexual benefits...and all the rest of the goodies.

Guess what?....Very few women want this long term. At first they will be OK with it. Once they begin to like you and trust you they want more.

You are wasting their time and sucking them dry....literally.

I feel sorry for your exgf. Yes, you were honest, yes, you used her. Go out with slvts. Leave the good ones for the good guys.
SunC beat me to it.

If you're only interested in a good lay, make that clear at the beginning. Put down any attempts at a "relationship"

Don't lead girls on with the whole "I don't believe in marriage but you could persuade me" BS. Stick to girls who share your views on relationships.

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post #17 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I already know what I should do

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My answer is one you do not want to hear.

You want, you want, you want.

96% of women, 99% of women who have class want a man who wants them....exclusively.

You are interested in a friend with sexual benefits...and all the rest of the goodies.

Guess what?....Very few women want this long term. At first they will be OK with it. Once they begin to like you and trust you they want more.

You are wasting their time and sucking them dry....literally.

I feel sorry for your exgf. Yes, you were honest, yes, you used her. Go out with slvts. Leave the good ones for the good guys.
I never said I wasn't exclusive with her. In fact I was, I didn't even date other women while I was going out with her. I wasn't and I am not interested in a FWB. But I was hoping for a friendship to truly develop absent the pressure of immediate commitment. I am not upset. I was simply being honest with her.

I am reasonably certain that few couples come to the conclusion of loving the other at the exact same moment. But according to you I should bail as soon as one of us would come to that conclusion while the other one hasn't.

Anyways, I was honest. When I realized that I could NOT make the commitment she was looking for I told her. I truly do not know what else I could do, other than follow your advise and bail immediately.

At the center of every moMEnt of my life is ME!
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post #18 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:04 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

Just to be clear, here is what @Ynot said:

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She said she still believed in the institution of marriage and that she would like to get married at some point. I told her I didn't and could see no real reason to marry at this point in my life.
He did not say "I don't believe in marriage but you could persuade me."

@Ynot,

Here's my 2 cents: this is not a good fit. End it.

#1--If it's only 6 weeks in and she's "crazy about you", needs constant reassurance, and the minute you miss a call or text she's going off on you--she is showing you her true self and it will be like this with her. If a healthy person were dating you for 6 weeks, she might be wearing a t-shirt and inviting you to a ball game--and carrying on with her own life when she's not around you!

#2--It sounds like you DO NOT want a committed relationship, but rather one that is casual and non-committal. I'm envisioning something closer to "friends with benefits" or an independent boyfriend/girlfriend relationship indefinitely. That's fine. That is what you would prefer and that is what you made clear. It sounds like she wants exclusivity and commitment. Thus, it's nothing personal--just not a good fit.

ETA: I'm not commenting here on morality or what I would do or Christian ethics--just replying to what YOU have determined for YOUR life and decided for yourself. Make sense? In other words, you didn't ask "What is right or wrong?" You've decided that for yourself. You essentially asked: "After reviewing I think I need to end it--right?"


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post #19 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I already know what I should do

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
SunC beat me to it.

If you're only interested in a good lay, make that clear at the beginning. Put down any attempts at a "relationship"

Don't lead girls on with the whole "I don't believe in marriage but you could persuade me" BS. Stick to girls who share your views on relationships.
I refer you to my response to SunC that preceeds this one.

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post #20 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I already know what I should do

I think some of you are confusing marriage with commitment. One does not have to be married to be committed.

I personally miss being married mostly because I imagined the commitment that went along with it. However, having just gone thru the legal unraveling I see no need for marriage at this point. I would love to find a woman to whom we could mutually commit to each other.

Honestly, this dating "game" I find myself in, is not something I ever envisioned for myself at this point in time. I am going to make mistakes. But that is how we learn.

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post #21 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:18 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

All I could think of when reading the OP was the movie Fatal Attraction.

People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks.


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post #22 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:19 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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I think some of you are confusing marriage with commitment. One does not have to be married to be committed.

I personally miss being married mostly because I imagined the commitment that went along with it. However, having just gone thru the legal unraveling I see no need for marriage at this point. I would love to find a woman to whom we could mutually commit to each other.

Honestly, this dating "game" I find myself in, is not something I ever envisioned for myself at this point in time. I am going to make mistakes. But that is how we learn.
Ynot, I'm not confusing them. I'm saying that many (most?) women want the actual piece of paper. You and I may agree it's just a piece of paper, but they don't see it that way.

If you aren't willing to go there, and in fact, don't "believe in the institution of marriage" then you should just make that clear. Don't put in weasel words that give the impression you can be changed. They'll think you're like every other guy out there who has "commitment issues" and that you'll come around; when that's not what is up. You just don't want to get the paper--and you shouldn't have to.

I'm not saying you did this with nefarious intent, but the result is as SunC and I were describing.
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post #23 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:27 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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Just to be clear, here is what Ynot said:

He did not say "I don't believe in marriage but you could persuade me."
No, I reworded it to try to point out that he is using weasel words. I see that it went right past the commenters here. So let me spell it out:

Weasel words leave room for wiggling, so you don't have to commit to a statement. If you are serious about something, you don't use weasel words. You state it. Flatly.

When you say "at this point in my life" what she is thinking is "I wasn't in his life before this point" and what she is hearing is "his mind can be changed due to new circumstances". In other words, that new point is here. She is the new circumstance. Don't give someone that kind of hope, when it doesn't exist, it is cruel.
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post #24 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I already know what I should do

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No, I reworded it to try to point out that he is using weasel words. I see that it went right past the commenters here. So let me spell it out:

Weasel words leave room for wiggling, so you don't have to commit to a statement. If you are serious about something, you don't use weasel words. You state it. Flatly.

When you say "at this point in my life" what she is thinking is "I wasn't in his life before this point" and what she is hearing is "his mind can be changed due to new circumstances". In other words, that new point is here. She is the new circumstance. Don't give someone that kind of hope, when it doesn't exist, it is cruel.
Actually "at this point in my life" meant exactly that. I am not ruling it out, but right now, where I am at I don't see it happening. I would be lying if I said I absolutely do or absolutely do not believe in marriage. But right now I don't know. So which is better to be honest at the beginning and the end or to lie about something at the beginning and have to backtrack at the end?
Heck I can't even begin to tell you all of the things that I have changed my mind about from what I believed at some other point in my life.

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post #25 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:44 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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Actually "at this point in my life" meant exactly that. I am not ruling it out, but right now, where I am at I don't see it happening. I would be lying if I said I absolutely do or absolutely do not believe in marriage. But right now I don't know. So which is better to be honest at the beginning and the end or to lie about something at the beginning and have to backtrack at the end?
Heck I can't even begin to tell you all of the things that I have changed my mind about from what I believed at some other point in my life.
Personally, I would say that if marriage is off the table, I'd state it that way. For the exact reason I quoted. She will see her entry into your life as that future point, and herself as the catalyst for changing your mind.

If later in life you want to start looking for someone to marry, then tell your partner circumstances have changed, and that you're feeling like marriage. If she's not down, cut her loose and look for someone who is.

Same thing with kids. If you don't want kids, don't use weasel words. Say "I'm planning a vasectomy. I don't want kids". If you're not taking vows "til death do us part" then you need not feel bad about having your mind change later. You were honest about what you want. Your desires changed.

But I may not be the right person for this topic. I value honesty highly. To each their own, I suppose.

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post #26 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:47 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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But I am just putting this out there.
I have been dating this woman for about 6 weeks. Early on we had a discussion about expectations. She said she still believed in the institution of marriage and that she would like to get married at some point. I told her I didn't and could see no real reason to marry at this point in my life.
Over the past several weeks, whenever we talk, she tells me she is really crazy about me and then asks if I am crazy about her. She has told me I am a great lover and then asks do I think she is a great lover. She has told me that she really misses me and then asks if I really miss her. The list goes on.
You have expressed your desire to not marry in a healthy way.

She is exhibiting insecurity and lack of impulse control.

Quote:

My point is that I feel I am constantly being asked to validate her, even though she also tells me she would be fine if I decided to end it. We spent a lot of time together over Thanksgiving and I got sort of wigged out by being with just one person for that long of period of time. I chalked it up to me becoming used to being alone. We had a talk and she said she had the same feeling. So we decided to take things a little slower going forward.
Since then, the validation thing has only gotten worse. I think she is very insecure. She keeps telling me she does not want to get hurt. At the same time she keeps telling me she would be fine if I end it.
Validation has to come from the self. The hardest thing to do is be responsible for both person's emotions.

Quote:

So on Saturday, I told her that I am uncomfortable continually being asked to validate her feelings by reciprocating. She asks and then expects a certain response. "I am really crazy about you! Are you crazy about me?" If I say "I enjoy spending time with you" It is usually followed with "You only enjoy being with me!? I am crazy about you!" So I told her, I cannot tell you I love you, because I do not. If you want me to say that, I am not going to lie! Her response was to get extremely upset. She started crying and said she had to go.
Generally speaking, I'd say that she is not self-happy. This means that her emotional self-regulation and management is probably a 60/100. Expect a lot of "innocent victimhood."

Quote:


She called me back and told me she didn't want this to end and she was fine with moving forward. Then she said she had to go again. Then the texts started - she called me scum, said I was using her, told me I should be ashamed of myself etc etc.
The externalized negativity is a manipulative ploy. You are (in her world) supposed to go fix her feelings, backing down from what you said and chase her.


Quote:
I finally replied with "WTH, I am just trying to be honest". The next day she sent me a text asking if I could call her. So I called her that evening. She said she was at a friends house having dinner and she would call me later. She did call me later, but my phone was turned off and I didn't see that she had called. I called her back and she didn't answer so I left her a voice mail. Then I saw I had a voice mail from her. She said I must be playing games since I wouldn't answer my phone. Then she texted me again that all of her friends said she should just move on. Then another text that I really mean a lot to her.
I just don't want the drama. I spent 24 years trying to be someone else to the detriment of who I am. I do not want to be in another relationship where I can not be honest. I understand that she may have expectations, but that doesn't mean I have to try to live up to them. So I am ending it.
She needs emotional retraining. This will NOT end without something along the lines of a therapeutic approach. This requires scores of hours of work on the self.


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post #27 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I already know what I should do

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
Personally, I would say that if marriage is off the table, I'd state it that way. For the exact reason I quoted. She will see her entry into your life as that future point, and herself as the catalyst for changing your mind.

If later in life you want to start looking for someone to marry, then tell your partner circumstances have changed, and that you're feeling like marriage. If she's not down, cut her loose and look for someone who is.

Same thing with kids. If you don't want kids, don't use weasel words. Say "I'm planning a vasectomy. I don't want kids". If you're not taking vows "til death do us part" then you need not feel bad about having your mind change later. You were honest about what you want. Your desires changed.

But I may not be the right person for this topic. I value honesty highly. To each their own, I suppose.
I value honesty highly as well. And I was honest in both circumstances. At the beginning and now at the end.

I don't understand absolutes if you are given the out that you just changed your mind. To me that is being dishonest. You can say whatever you want and just change your mind later. Would I have been more honest if I had said I value marriage and later said I changed my mind?

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post #28 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 06:02 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

OK, I quit reading, wayyyy to much discussion, to many words.

Not a match, move on. Really that simple.
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post #29 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 06:05 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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I value honesty highly as well. And I was honest in both circumstances. At the beginning and now at the end.

I don't understand absolutes if you are given the out that you just changed your mind. To me that is being dishonest. You can say whatever you want and just change your mind later. Would I have been more honest if I had said I value marriage and later said I changed my mind?
Great question. In my opinion, it would not to be dishonest to tell someone you are interested in marriage if you are and then find yourself later not interested in marriage at all. Now if you've gotten married and decided that you just didn't like marriage that would pose a problem with your vows. To remain honest it would be incumbent upon you to find a way to deal with that problem.

I think the real problem with your situation is that most people do not view commitment the same way you do in practice. Sure they may in theory, but when it comes to actual human interaction Theory goes out the window.
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post #30 of 77 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 06:20 PM
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Re: I already know what I should do

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Originally Posted by Relationship Teacher View Post
You have expressed your desire to not marry in a healthy way.

She is exhibiting insecurity and lack of impulse control.



Validation has to come from the self. The hardest thing to do is be responsible for both person's emotions.


Generally speaking, I'd say that she is not self-happy. This means that her emotional self-regulation and management is probably a 60/100. Expect a lot of "innocent victimhood."


The externalized negativity is a manipulative ploy. You are (in her world) supposed to go fix her feelings, backing down from what you said and chase her.



First off, most of what you wrote is true.
But being true makes this a long term repair project for whoever she falls for next. I pray to God that there is a "next" guy in her life.

Logic may be steel, but heart pain is acid to that steel. Emotional hurt is every bit as strong as a swinging hammer.... where/whe Homo-Sapiens are involved.

She can go to individual therapy school for years. When she graduates, she will have her logic hat [with honors tassel] put straight onto her head.

As soon as her heart, as soon as her hormones, as soon as her love button is pushed, the tassled hat will slip down. Slip down, covering one eye, blocking her lying ears to the reality that she is a monogamous lover of men and that "some" men want her for their personal pleasure.

We cannot stop war. We cannot stop murder. We cannot stop jealousy. We cannot stop avarice. We cannot stop dishonesty, greed, selfishness or theft.

And we cannot stop some women from loving some man.

A women without love is a boobed shell.





She needs emotional retraining. This will NOT end without something along the lines of a therapeutic approach. This requires scores of hours of work on the self.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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