Falling "IN LOVE" again - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 11:46 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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I will be most interested in your situation! He does in fact sound exactly like me. I dont know if in my case I havent got the wild out of me yet. Did he ever talk about his expectations? You tell him yours? I get exactly what you are saying, and him as well. That is my question I guess. Were my gf to give me any ultimatiums I would take a pass. I would miss her, but my life would not be devestated. I wish I could have that feeling again, but wishing dont make it so. In his defense, I am sure you do make him happy, and he does care for you deeply, in my case that is the best I have.
I think that if I ever found myself in the situation I would be exactly like you. I chalk it up to being broken. I've already gave whatever I have to someone and they didn't want it. A wall would go up to prevent that from happening again. It would probably happen without my ever realizing it.


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post #17 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 11:51 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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my current gf who I have been seeing for two years. She is great. We are together 51 of 52 weekends. Her kids are out of the home as well. She and I enjoy the same tastes in music, same tastes in adventure, have traveled quite a bit, get along great. The problem is, at least a problem for her, is that I dont have the "cant do without her" feeling. (We get together on Wednesday nights during the week and then the weekend. Living 30 minutes apart.) I dont know if it is my age (57) but I remember a time when I just could not wait to see my wife, missed her a lot when we were apart, not there at all. With my gf I call/text her daily. But she wants more. I talked with her repeately when we first started dating, told her where I was, what my plans were. I havent changed. I wish I could have the feelings she desires, but dont think I would with anyone. Am I just broken?
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Were my gf to give me any ultimatiums I would take a pass. I would miss her, but my life would not be devestated. I wish I could have that feeling again, but wishing dont make it so. In his defense, I am sure you do make him happy, and he does care for you deeply, in my case that is the best I have.
I'm in the same exact situation with my gf but about 20 years younger.

I think when you get burned like we did it changes how you feel about future relationships.

Perhaps a way of the brain protecting your psyche from future traumatic injury?

I'm not sure. If you figure it out eventually, PM me. I'd love to know too LOL.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #18 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 01:26 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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I too was burned by my who cheated with my best friend. Took me a long time to get over the loss of my "true love" and feel okay again.

I'll be honest, I will not be dependent on any one person again for my happiness, my financial stability, or all my emotional needs. I love my wife and I think she is a great woman, but if she decided to leave I would not beg her to stay. I love her, but I could survive without her just fine.

So no, I don't believe you are broken. Others may say I am doing my wife a disservice by not giver her everything. I will counter that I work very hard to meet her emotional & stability needs, which is important to her.
A certain amount of interdependence is healthy. Co-dependence is not.

If you're working hard to meet her needs in the relationship, that's good. I'll admit, though, as a giver and out of a desire for a truly reciprocal relationship, I would want to know that my partner is relying on me to meet his needs as well, because I want to give that to him. What needs do you rely on her to meet?

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #19 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 01:58 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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Ugh, it's complicated. What do you mean, haven't got the wild out of you yet?

Yes, we have talked about expectations, in a limited sense... his expectations have been a moving target, honestly. Starting out, he was saying, I don't ever want a relationships again, I don't ever want a girlfriend again... then six months later, he's saying that we're a couple and acknowledging that we are in a relationship, but claims he still doesn't want a girlfriend/boyfriend thing, because that means that we are thinking about marriage, and he never wants to get married again. And whenever he makes declarations about what he doesn't want, he always makes a disclaimer that this is the way he feels now, and he doesn't see it changing, but he might feel differently in a year. All labels aside, we're as committed as any two people who have been seeing each other exclusively for a year can be, and he asked me once what I expected/wanted out of a boyfriend, a gave him list of things that I expected from a boyfriend, and he said, I'm willing to give you all that, I'm just not saying that I'm your boyfriend because that's a precursor to marriage. I've never pushed my agenda regarding my expectations, I've been happy to take things as they come and let things develop in an organic way... it has only come up a few times, when I felt he was neglecting me/my needs or not making me enough of a priority; usually, he is very responsive when I communicate something like this, but if he's stressed about something else that I don't know about, he'll go into "I need to assert my independence and remind you that you're not my girlfriend" mode, which always results in a big fight, like the one we had last week.

And I DO want to get married again, someday, but only if it's to the right person, and I'm not in any rush at this point. At this point, I just want a boyfriend, and I am happy to stay at that point for a long time. He asked me, five months ago, to be patient with him, because he has a lot of baggage, and I have been very patient with him. Until this fight last week, we never really spoke about my expectations, and I was ok with that. I didn't have any expectations... expectations for the future keep you from living fully in the present, which is a waste when the future may never even happen. I was happy with our relationship, and I felt like I was getting my needs met in the current state of affairs. And if our relationship was meant to become something more, then that would happen naturally. Then again, I also thought that his behavior and affection was coming from a place of love, and that his feelings were evolving.

I was upset because he had come home from a week and a half in Africa, and I barely saw him in the week and a half before he left... and I thought that we would FINALLY get some time together now that he was back, and I felt like he was blowing me off in favor of everything else, making me wait another five days until the weekend to see him. I had waited three weeks to get some quality time in, and he was expecting me to wait another 5 days? That did NOT go over well with me, not at all. So we got into a fight about it, which led him to ask, "What do you want out of this relationship? ... because I get the feeling that you want more than I am willing to give." Which turned into another fight. And it became very frustrating for me, because a lot of his reasons for not wanting anything more serious sounded more like excuses and fear talking, than actual legitimate reasons. And it was very hard for me, too, because the whole thing triggered my fear of abandonment (it really felt like he was rejecting me on some level). (One of his things about us not being bf/gf is that if we aren't bf/gf, then we can't "break up"--neither one of us can't dump the other. He thinks it will protect him from being rejected. Which makes absolutely no sense at all. A lot of things about his arguments on this topic have been illogical.)

He says he's never met someone as compatible with him as I am. And he sees us together for years into the future. That I'm his favorite person, that he cares for me more than anyone else in his life. What I don't understand is how you could meet someone so perfect for you, whom you see a [short-term, few years] future with, who you care for so much, and yet... you don't want to even consider the possibility of something more serious, more permanent with them? It makes no sense to me at all.

I hate his XW so, so much. She screwed him up so bad... the sad thing is that the betrayal and divorce made him the man who he is today, and ironically, pushed him to learn how to be a better partner. And because he IS such a good partner is one of the reasons I like him so much. He said once, if I had met you instead of her, things would have been very different for us... and I said, if I had met you then, we wouldn't have worked. Our relationship would have failed then, because you were a different person then, and I'm in love with the man you are NOW. SMH.
FIP, your fella is emotionally unavailable. The push-pull thing he does, where he's your boyfriend except he isn't and wants to remind you of that fact, allows him to keep you on the hook and keep getting his needs met without making you an actual priority. And you're allowing it. You're projecting love and evolving feelings that aren't actually in him. You're holding on to hope because he's doling out hope-bait by telling you that his feelings might change - presumably if you're...what? More, better, different, what? You're trying to be patient and understanding and to not place demands on him. And all that would be fine, good even, except that you don't actually sound like you're really okay with this nebulous, no-definitions, boundary-less, quasi relationship you find yourself in. You honestly sound more like someone who's trying to be "low maintenance" because you're deathly afraid of being called "high maintenance" or "demanding". But the truth is, that it's okay to be demanding, when what you're demanding is honesty, respect, clarity, to have your needs met equitably in the relationship, and to put an end to moving targets. Expectations in a relationship are not necessarily a bad thing.

The problem is that your guy has told you what he wants, but you're still trying to figure out what he's saying. You've been together a year and he still insists he's not your boyfriend - to the point of feeling the occasional need to remind you of that fact. If you want a boyfriend, he's not your guy.

You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view. - Obi Wan Kenobi
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post #20 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 03:51 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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FIP, your fella is emotionally unavailable. The push-pull thing he does, where he's your boyfriend except he isn't and wants to remind you of that fact, allows him to keep you on the hook and keep getting his needs met without making you an actual priority. And you're allowing it. You're projecting love and evolving feelings that aren't actually in him. You're holding on to hope because he's doling out hope-bait by telling you that his feelings might change - presumably if you're...what? More, better, different, what? You're trying to be patient and understanding and to not place demands on him. And all that would be fine, good even, except that you don't actually sound like you're really okay with this nebulous, no-definitions, boundary-less, quasi relationship you find yourself in. You honestly sound more like someone who's trying to be "low maintenance" because you're deathly afraid of being called "high maintenance" or "demanding". But the truth is, that it's okay to be demanding, when what you're demanding is honesty, respect, clarity, to have your needs met equitably in the relationship, and to put an end to moving targets. Expectations in a relationship are not necessarily a bad thing.

The problem is that your guy has told you what he wants, but you're still trying to figure out what he's saying. You've been together a year and he still insists he's not your boyfriend - to the point of feeling the occasional need to remind you of that fact. If you want a boyfriend, he's not your guy.
Thanks for your feedback, Rowan, but I posted this for the OP because he wanted to hear a little more, not to get feedback on my personal situation from other folks. If I needed feedback, I would have posted my own thread. And you would have the entire contextual story to respond to, not just one post.

Maybe he is emotionally unavailable. But he DOES make me a priority... the example in the previous post is an outlier, and I only gave it to put the argument in context. I am one of the few priorities in his life, but at that moment, all of them had come together to create the perfect storm of priorities, but I didn't know it at the time because I hadn't seen him while he was out of town and we hadn't had time to talk.

He doesn't expect me or want me to change. In fact, for the first time in my life, with him, I don't feel like I need to change or be any different. I have, and I do make demands on him, and he expects me to do so if I'm unhappy, and he always does his best to resolve these issues and talk them through with me. We do have boundaries, we are exclusive, we've always maintained a policy of complete honesty in our relationship, we have a great deal of respect in our relationship, and not only are my needs being met for the first time in any relationship, he actively wants to know what he can do better to make sure my needs are continually met. And I may have mispoken... I have expectations of all the above. But in the context of my conversation with him, I don't have expectations like, "I want us to get married in X number of years." I like my independence, and I value it because it was very hard won. I'm not looking to give it up anytime soon.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #21 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 09:13 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

This thread has hit home for me. I have been dating a man for 2 years. He has told me he is emotional detached since his divorce 5 years ago. He sounds very much like Hoosier.

As some of you know, I have been back and forth about breaking up with him because he cant say I love you or integrate me fully into his life. I am not looking for marriage or living together, but I do want someone to be fully integrated into my life . I know he cares for me. But I believe if I broke it off, he would not be devastated. I think he would slot someone else in. I really think he is looking for companionship and intimacy on his terms. I think this relationship will go as long as I let it as overall we get along great and his needs are fulfilled. Unfortunately mine are not and I am growing restless. Its sad that this relationship has to end because he chooses not to risk. It is incredibly selfish of him because I will be the one very hurt once this ends. Not him.
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post #22 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 09:32 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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This thread has hit home for me. I have been dating a man for 2 years. He has told me he is emotional detached since his divorce 5 years ago. He sounds very much like Hoosier.

As some of you know, I have been back and forth about breaking up with him because he cant say I love you or integrate me fully into his life. I am not looking for marriage or living together, but I do want someone to be fully integrated into my life . I know he cares for me. But I believe if I broke it off, he would not be devastated. I think he would slot someone else in. I really think he is looking for companionship and intimacy on his terms. I think this relationship will go as long as I let it as overall we get along great and his needs are fulfilled. Unfortunately mine are not and I am growing restless. Its sad that this relationship has to end because he chooses not to risk. It is incredibly selfish of him because I will be the one very hurt once this ends. Not him.
And that's his intention, of course (the guy you're dating, not necessarily Hoosier). He refuses to become attached and refuses to take a risk because he doesn't want to get hurt (again). Protecting himself is more important than having a truly intimate relationship; a real relationship isn't worth the risk to him.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #23 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 10:48 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

I think being crushed emotionally always brings out the risk vs reward thought processes. I don't know that I will ever leave that zone again and really don't want to.
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post #24 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 11:01 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

I feel for all of you here who have these partners who are so half hearted in their commitment. If they dont want to commit, then why did they date you in the first place? Honestly, its a DECISION to commit, and I see it as they are using you.
For us who were both very hurt and betrayed by our first spouses after long marriages, it was always going be a a commitment or nothing, as we don't believe in sex or living together outside marriage. We were married within 9 months of meeting. If I had met a man as has been described here, I would not have ever got serious, a man who refuses to commit yet is happy to use me for sex isn't for me.
Its cruel to treat another like that, if you don't love her and refuse to give more, then end it and don't date again. Dont mess with peoples emotions and feelings.Stay single.
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post #25 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 11:06 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

OP, personally I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
I suppose I have my own take, since I could very well live without my husband if circumstances deemed it to be fate. I could walk out this door tomorrow with all of my stuff and I know I'd be fine. I'd be sad, but fine.

I choose to remain with him because I love him and because our relationship is strong. I would never say, however, that I can't live without him.

Maybe there's more to this... maybe there is some deeper explanation from your perspective, but I look at it pretty simply.
There was once a time, when I was married to my ex-H, when I would have told anyone I could not live without him.
I have since become more mature to life, because of my experiences, and know now that I do not have such a need any longer, because I have a much more healthy sense of self now than I did then.
Perhaps your gf is not in the same boat as you, and has a genuine, constant need for you in her life. Maybe she is still healing from her own past pain. Whether her need for you is healthy or unhealthy depends on the level of her reaction. If she acknowledges it but doesn't make a big deal of it, that means her opinion differs but she is not punishing you for it. If she makes you wrong for not feeling the precise way she does, then I'd start to call it an unhealthy need.

My H knows that I'd be fine without him. I know he'd be fine without me. Losing one another is not a fear for either of us. It's hard to describe, but not having that fear makes our relationship somewhat impervious and resilient to emotional blackmail (not that either of us ascribe to it, just saying). There are many things I no longer fear in life, and being devoid of that fear means that no one can attempt to threaten me with it.


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post #26 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 11:12 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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I think being crushed emotionally always brings out the risk vs reward thought processes. I don't know that I will ever leave that zone again and really don't want to.
Its SO worth it.
I have been deeply hurt and/or betrayed by many in my life, not least by my first husband of 23 years, a parent who committed suicide, and a father who cheated on and betrayed my mother and us children. I probably had far more baggage than most.

I am so glad that I didn't get those things stop me from trusting and hoping and loving and committing again. Much of life is a risk, we either stay in our self imposed prisons and live a cold lonely life, or we step out and enjoy the warmth and colour and freedom.The choice is ours.

I have never regretted marrying my second husband of 11 years, in fact we have both helped each other to heal more. How sad if I had missed out on what I have now because of fear(because its all about fear).
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post #27 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 11:30 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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Its SO worth it.
I have been deeply hurt and/or betrayed by many in my life, not least by my first husband of 23 years, a parent who committed suicide, and a father who cheated on and betrayed my mother and us children. I probably had far more baggage than most.

I am so glad that I didn't get those things stop me from trusting and hoping and loving and committing again. Much of life is a risk, we either stay in our self imposed prisons and live a cold lonely life, or we step out and enjoy the warmth and colour and freedom.The choice is ours.

I have never regretted marrying my second husband of 11 years, in fact we have both helped each other to heal more. How sad if I had missed out on what I have now because of fear(because its all about fear).
Diana7, I wish I could love this post instead of just like it. I refuse to let past hurts keep me from living a full life, to keep me from trusting, hoping, and loving again. Nothing worth having comes without risk. I've been through the worst that life could throw at me... whatever else happens is a piece of cake compared to that. Well, maybe not. But I'm strong enough to take whatever disappointment and pain life throws at me, because the reward is so much greater than the risk.

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post #28 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 12:21 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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I feel for all of you here who have these partners who are so half hearted in their commitment. If they dont want to commit, then why did they date you in the first place? Honestly, its a DECISION to commit, and I see it as they are using you.

Dating is a decision to commit? really? No, dating is exploring what you want and don't want. How else are you going to find out unless you look for. Maybe you blindly stumbled into a relationship with some one with similar wants and needs of your own, but most people actually have to go out an look for it.
For us who were both very hurt and betrayed by our first spouses after long marriages, it was always going be a a commitment or nothing, as we don't believe in sex or living together outside marriage. We were married within 9 months of meeting. If I had met a man as has been described here, I would not have ever got serious, a man who refuses to commit yet is happy to use me for sex isn't for me.
Its cruel to treat another like that, if you don't love her and refuse to give more, then end it and don't date again. Dont mess with peoples emotions and feelings.Stay single.
No, what is cruel is to think someone is using you because they won't commit to a relationship under your expectations

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post #29 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 12:32 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

OP, I think you (and others) err in describing yourselves as "broken". You aren't broken, you are changed. I think that that change comes from whatever happened to us and how we perceive it. If you had totally invested in your marriage and were left or cheated on, you might perceive your experience as betrayal. On the other hand another person may perceive the same situation as being unfulfilled or unappreciated or abandoned (as in my SO cheated because they didn't love me as I want to be loved). This may be the case with your GF. If she felt somewhat abandoned as opposed to feeling betrayed, she might be looking to feel the void of being abandoned, whereas you are looking to protect your wound of being betrayed.
I don't know which is a better way of looking at things. You see it as getting over a "childish" need to be loved (which you no longer believe in) by another, whereas she sees it as finding that true love (which she still believes in).
As I type this I guess it comes down to realism vs idealism?
Personally I felt betrayal from my divorce. I had invested 110% into my marriage. Now I look at love as a temporary thing, because I know that is what it is. I have met women and men who feel the same way. I have also met women and men who are still on that quest. (Ironically, there appears to be some correlation to religious belief)

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post #30 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

"Its sad that this relationship has to end because he chooses not to risk. It is incredibly selfish of him because I will be the one very hurt once this ends. Not him."

As for him chooseing not to risk. In my case it is not a matter of "choice" I just dont have that feeling.. The same if you are homosexual/heterosexual you are attacked to a certain gender, you dont pick that gender, you dont choose which gender appeals to you. He is not choosing to not "be in love with you" just what it is.

As for selfish of him, that makes me feel a bit guilty. In the case of my current gf, from day one, I told her how I was, I told her that I could only promise her what was now, more than once. She now wants more, if I dont give it to her she is going to be hurt, probably pretty badly. Oh, and I would be hurt to have to "slide someone else in" just not enough to make me change I guess.
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