Falling "IN LOVE" again - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
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post #61 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 03:37 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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I've read this thread too long and I'm seeing a lot of issues. People are using imprecise language to describe the emotions they feel. I saw LOVE, commitment, and secure. The one I keep looking for is Vulnerable. In a way I see Hoosiers girl saying I Can't be Secure with you because you aren't vulnerable to me.

I'm sure it is more complicated than that and I do tend to focus on power in the relationship. Here are my thoughts on vulnerability. No relationship is without risk. Even you already admit that if this relationship ends you will be hurt. FIP is dancing around the difference between inter-dependency and codependency, which is really A healthy level of dependency vs. an unhealthy level of dependency. What you need to realize is that your wall is not effectively protecting you from dependence. And it really can't. You will always be dependent on something.

I have a friend who is a self proclaimed Hermit. How can that statement be true? how can he be a Hermit, and have a friend? But he has many friends. Most of us see him on his terms, we don't visit him at his house. We don't pop in unexpectedly. But even with his self imposed distance he relies on other people. He gets happiness (quite a bit of it to judge by his demeanor) out of his interactions with groups of people. We all know that he could survive without us, but we remain friendly with him because we are rewarded emotionally for being around him.

I do think a healthy relationship can be built with a limited amount of mutual dependence. Probably not with this particular woman.
I would dance less and be more direct, but I'm still learning to tell the difference and what that means in theory versus practice.


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post #62 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 03:47 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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First of all, I am not looking to get married or live together. But I think I would want him to know that he loves me, that there is a future or some greater committment to work towards. I have smaller children and I want to know he is going to be more involved with them down the road.

He is very out of touch with his emotions which he readily admits. He tells me he doesnt know why but since the divorce, he is emotionally disconnected. His words. I want him to be able to tell me he loves me and mean it. I want to meet his family (i have met one daughter and one cousin). In fairness to him, both our families live out of State. And vacation together.

I feel we live two different lives that come together every other weekend when the kids are gone and we are both in town.
Might be just be that your individual timelines aren't on the same page, I would think after 2 years he would know if he loved you or not though.
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post #63 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 03:53 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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Might be just be that your individual timelines aren't on the same page, I would think after 2 years he would know if he loved you or not though.

I stopped saying it to him altogether. If he wants those words, he is going to have to initiate them again.
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post #64 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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I stopped saying it to him altogether. If he wants those words, he is going to have to initiate them again.
I never said it to Real Estate, because I knew he wasn't ready. He kind of forced my hand with our conversation/fight last week, and I said it, but he's not getting it from me again, not until we get on the same page, if that ever happens.

ETA: I didn't say it to him, not until last week.

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post #65 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

I think it is all a matter of perspective still. To some, love might encompass "not wanting to get married or live together". But to some one else it might be the all-in commitment that comes with marriage.

To anyone who feels betrayal, they may still be equating love with marriage and are not willing to go there again. OTOH, those who have felt abandonment may not make that same equivocation

I cared a great deal for every woman I have had a relationship with post divorce. But that doesn't mean I am willing to take the plunge of marriage ever again.

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post #66 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 05:16 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

There also seems to be a divide between men and women on this issue. I guess my thought on that are that if women are willing to hurt men who love them (not accusing anybody in particular - it is just that women file the majority of divorces and often the men they leave behind are clueless as to what is coming), then women should also be willing to accept that many of those same men are not going to allow themselves to be burned twice.

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post #67 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 05:49 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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There also seems to be a divide between men and women on this issue. I guess my thought on that are that if women are willing to hurt men who love them (not accusing anybody in particular - it is just that women file the majority of divorces and often the men they leave behind are clueless as to what is coming), then women should also be willing to accept that many of those same men are not going to allow themselves to be burned twice.
The problem here is that the women who are suffering the consequences of the men being burned are not the women who burned the men in the first place! I am suffering the consequences of Real Estate's betrayal by his XW, when I, by my very nature would never do what she did to him. I couldn't find it in myself to lie to and cheat on someone that I love. And yet I am the one suffering the consequences of what someone else did. I expect @bklyn309 is in the same boat.

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post #68 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 05:59 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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The problem here is that the women who are suffering the consequences of the men being burned are not the women who burned the men in the first place! I am suffering the consequences of Real Estate's betrayal by his XW, when I, by my very nature would never do what she did to him. I couldn't find it in myself to lie to and cheat on someone that I love. And yet I am the one suffering the consequences of what someone else did. I expect @bklyn309 is in the same boat.

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I never said life was fair. I am just pointing out a reality. It is a sad side effect of female empowerment. And FTR that doesn't mean I am opposed to female empowerment. But when said empowerment happens to only one gender, while the other is still expected to abide by past conventions, what else do you expect?
I am on the opposite side. I never wanted to get divorced. I totally and completely was invested in my marriage and my family. I didn't have a choice though. She decided to walk and that was that. While I have gotten over the bitterness and anger of being betrayed, I have also learned a lesson. That lesson being that emotions are temporary and subject to change. Am I "detached from my emotions" or just protecting myself? If you put your hand in the fire the second time, after getting severe burns the first time, who is to blame?

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post #69 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 05:18 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

I can't for the life of me find it, but I think someone once posted a link to a study/article showing that men (on average) take a lot longer to heal from betrayal than women.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #70 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:18 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

FIP, wouldn't you say that your reaction to your current situation has been largely shaped by your experiences in your past relationships? Does it not make sense, then that he would be viewing things through his own prism of experience and reacting accordingly? I think when we are young and do not know anywhere near as much as we do when we are older, those experiences are either more closely in parallel with each other or are simply not as important to us. When we are young we see our whole life ahead of us, and never stop to consider that some day they will end. The days last forever. As we age, we begin to see the deadlines that are approaching, perhaps it is the ability to have a child for women, the inability to compete for men, or beyond that the end of our lives. Patience is an affordable luxury when we are young, where as it becomes an unacceptable expense as we age?


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post #71 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:50 AM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

@Ynot Yes, absolutely... And that is one of the things that gives us stumbling blocks and baggage to deal with. He's said on more than one occasion that this would all be different if we met 10 yrs ago (the fact that we were both married 10 yrs ago, or close to it), that he probably would have been head over heels and all in with me. And then I point out that it wouldn't have worked out for us if we had met 10 years ago, because he's told me all the ways that he wasn't a good partner in the days before his divorce. I love him for the man he is now, and he's that man now because of those experiences--the same way I am different now myself.

I will disagree with you regarding the patience thing, though--I am MUCH more patient now than I was in my youth, and I don't see that as a bad thing.

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post #72 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 06:34 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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@Ynot Yes, absolutely... And that is one of the things that gives us stumbling blocks and baggage to deal with. He's said on more than one occasion that this would all be different if we met 10 yrs ago (the fact that we were both married 10 yrs ago, or close to it), that he probably would have been head over heels and all in with me. And then I point out that it wouldn't have worked out for us if we had met 10 years ago, because he's told me all the ways that he wasn't a good partner in the days before his divorce. I love him for the man he is now, and he's that man now because of those experiences--the same way I am different now myself.

I will disagree with you regarding the patience thing, though--I am MUCH more patient now than I was in my youth, and I don't see that as a bad thing.

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Wow this is very close to home. I have told my GF many times if I could do one thing, one do over in life, it would be to go back in time and meet a girl like her vs my x wife. I have no doubt we would be happily married forever were that the case
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post #73 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 08:56 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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Brief back ground then story. (look up Hoosier if you want the thread) 30 years married. in July 2011, my xw, upon my discovery of text messages. Literally packed two bags, walked five blocks and moved in with the OM. Divorced in 82 days, they married six months later, and remain married to this day. No contact since 2012. My three daughters, 26, 30, 32 and I remain close. Even tho one is 1200 miles away another is 1800 miles away. I hear from them nearly everyday and see them pretty often. I own my own business, and years of hard labor allow me a lot of flexability in my hours, time off. I have a great life! Many close friends, family, and not rich, but dont worry about money. Now my question:

In the five years I have been divorced, I have dated a few women, two of them long term, including my current gf who I have been seeing for two years. She is great. We are together 51 of 52 weekends. Her kids are out of the home as well. She and I enjoy the same tastes in music, same tastes in adventure, have traveled quite a bit, get along great. The problem is, at least a problem for her, is that I dont have the "cant do without her" feeling. (We get together on Wednesday nights during the week and then the weekend. Living 30 minutes apart.) I dont know if it is my age (57) but I remember a time when I just could not wait to see my wife, missed her a lot when we were apart, not there at all. With my gf I call/text her daily. But she wants more. I talked with her repeately when we first started dating, told her where I was, what my plans were. I havent changed. I wish I could have the feelings she desires, but dont think I would with anyone. Am I just broken?
I feel u better can understand ur gf means she is having the feelings for you which u had for ur wife n it's good sign for u that u got someone who is like u so u should be there for her, women needs assurance n needs someone who gives importance to her n be there for her in any situation so u should not neglect her like this then she will feel bad bcs as u felt bcs of ur wife n trust me all r not the same people like ur wife

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post #74 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:10 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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Its SO worth it.
I have been deeply hurt and/or betrayed by many in my life, not least by my first husband of 23 years, a parent who committed suicide, and a father who cheated on and betrayed my mother and us children. I probably had far more baggage than most.

I am so glad that I didn't get those things stop me from trusting and hoping and loving and committing again. Much of life is a risk, we either stay in our self imposed prisons and live a cold lonely life, or we step out and enjoy the warmth and colour and freedom.The choice is ours.

I have never regretted marrying my second husband of 11 years, in fact we have both helped each other to heal more. How sad if I had missed out on what I have now because of fear(because its all about fear).
I think it's good way to like at life n we should learn from our past n be positive n confident in present n be positive for future

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post #75 of 131 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 09:14 PM
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Re: Falling "IN LOVE" again

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"Its sad that this relationship has to end because he chooses not to risk. It is incredibly selfish of him because I will be the one very hurt once this ends. Not him."

As for him chooseing not to risk. In my case it is not a matter of "choice" I just dont have that feeling.. The same if you are homosexual/heterosexual you are attacked to a certain gender, you dont pick that gender, you dont choose which gender appeals to you. He is not choosing to not "be in love with you" just what it is.

As for selfish of him, that makes me feel a bit guilty. In the case of my current gf, from day one, I told her how I was, I told her that I could only promise her what was now, more than once. She now wants more, if I dont give it to her she is going to be hurt, probably pretty badly. Oh, and I would be hurt to have to "slide someone else in" just not enough to make me change I guess.
Ur gf needs ur love, commitment n assurance n u r worried bcs of ur past experience but just be there for her u will be happy n she will also be happy it's not wrong to fulfill her expectations

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