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Falling "IN LOVE" again

16K views 130 replies 31 participants last post by  Ynot 
#1 ·
Brief back ground then story. (look up Hoosier if you want the thread) 30 years married. in July 2011, my xw, upon my discovery of text messages. Literally packed two bags, walked five blocks and moved in with the OM. Divorced in 82 days, they married six months later, and remain married to this day. No contact since 2012. My three daughters, 26, 30, 32 and I remain close. Even tho one is 1200 miles away another is 1800 miles away. I hear from them nearly everyday and see them pretty often. I own my own business, and years of hard labor allow me a lot of flexability in my hours, time off. I have a great life! Many close friends, family, and not rich, but dont worry about money. Now my question:

In the five years I have been divorced, I have dated a few women, two of them long term, including my current gf who I have been seeing for two years. She is great. We are together 51 of 52 weekends. Her kids are out of the home as well. She and I enjoy the same tastes in music, same tastes in adventure, have traveled quite a bit, get along great. The problem is, at least a problem for her, is that I dont have the "cant do without her" feeling. (We get together on Wednesday nights during the week and then the weekend. Living 30 minutes apart.) I dont know if it is my age (57) but I remember a time when I just could not wait to see my wife, missed her a lot when we were apart, not there at all. With my gf I call/text her daily. But she wants more. I talked with her repeately when we first started dating, told her where I was, what my plans were. I havent changed. I wish I could have the feelings she desires, but dont think I would with anyone. Am I just broken?
 
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#4 ·
I don't know if you're broken, but I would like to see what other people have to say about your situation, because it looks a lot like mine. My current partner, who I've been seeing for a year, seems to be in the same boat as you (though he is about 10 yrs younger than you, and has no children). We spend every weekend together, and sometimes one (or more!) evenings during the week. He's a wonderful man, but he says that he can't ever allow himself to love another woman after the way he's been hurt in the past. He's built a wall to protect himself and keep others out. Like you, his XW cheated, left him and married the OM as soon as the divorce was finalized. I absolutely adore him, and he says he cares for me deeply and that I make him happy... but I want to be with someone who is in love with me, someone who can't wait to see me, who misses me when I am away. I'm at a crossroads myself and I'm not sure what to do in my own situation. We had a big fight about this a week ago, and while I agreed to stay for now, I'm having serious doubts and things feel very different to me now.
 
#5 ·
I will be most interested in your situation! He does in fact sound exactly like me. I dont know if in my case I havent got the wild out of me yet. Did he ever talk about his expectations? You tell him yours? I get exactly what you are saying, and him as well. That is my question I guess. Were my gf to give me any ultimatiums I would take a pass. I would miss her, but my life would not be devestated. I wish I could have that feeling again, but wishing dont make it so. In his defense, I am sure you do make him happy, and he does care for you deeply, in my case that is the best I have.
 
#6 ·
Do you feel like you don't WANT to do without her? That may be close enough for her. I may be (still be) madly in love with my second wife, but I COULD do without her if I had to - but I certainly do not WANT to be without her. A simple rephrasing may be all you need here.
 
#7 ·
maybe you are broken, maybe not.

maybe you are just self sufficient emotionally and spiritually and don't 'need' someone as bad as 'madly in love' demands.

if you are broken, it's only one aspect of a much larger you. if you are, it's no wonder the hurt and betrayal left you with an impenetrable wall.

it's an introspective question that is worth thought and contemplation.

i don't necessarily agree however with those who say 'can't be without you' is unhealthy.
it depends what you mean by it. the feeling and emotional intensity of appreciating and being caught up so closely with another human being is among
the heights of human existence. even if that love was to depart through death or infidelity, that love can last forever and teach us what it is to be bonded
to another human being so that we are truly one and not two. that is a mystery which few can plumb it's depths.
but when we find it, we are not far from the meaning of existence.

no man is an island, but some of us can be happy pretty much on our own.
 
#9 · (Edited)
We were both deeply hurt and betrayed by our respective first spouses both after 23 years of marriage. When I met my now husband we were both in our late 40's, and I knew in a very short time that I wanted to marry him and as soon as possible. I fell in love very soon and would have been devastated if it hadn't worked out. I had every reason not to trust again and to put up walls, as he did as well, but then you loose out on so much in life.
If we can do it so can others, we were married within 9 months of meeting and its now 11 years later and we are great together.

Its a choice to love again and commit again. I have a sister in law who lived with a man for a few years but eventually left because he refused to marry her, so he lost out on a lovely lady because of his refusal to face the possibility of getting divorced again. Silly man.

I would wonder if she isn't more of a good friend than someone who you want to be committed to? I also wonder if you are actually in love with her?
 
#11 ·
I totally get where you're coming from and I'll share my perspective. What I think altered my view of love and relationships, was when I fell out of love with my XWW (it took months after the divorce was finalized and I would never have believed it was possible prior to experiencing it). Realizing that at one point I was madly in love and would have done anything for her and today I feel nothing, was an awakening that I never expected. I think that is what has built up these so-called "walls" because I am very cognizant of the fact that feelings can and do change on both sides of relationships. Realizing that the feelings of love are not necessarily permanent makes it very hard to give in and totally let yourself fall for someone. Hoosier, maybe it is simpler than that just means that the relationship isn't the right one yet? Or alternatively, that your relationship that you are comfortable with is one for companionship without the intense feelings.
 
#14 ·
No you aren't broken. It is who you are now - don't make excuses for that. As long as you feel fine with yourself you are.

Don't let yourself get pushed into Beta BS about how you "should" feel or act. If after 2 years she isn't secure with you and the relationship then she should move on. You haven't done anything wrong. Tell her to pull up her big girl panties and deal with her issues herself instead of dumping them on you to fix and feel guilty about. By now I'd hope you know you can't "fix" someone else's feelings. You've been honest with her and respectful - what the hell else does she want ? Big ass RED flag dude - 2 years in and she is questioning your feelings / commitment ? Think that will change ? Ever ? Unlikely.

Not trying to be mean - just calling it like I see it. With best regards.
 
#15 ·
The problem is, at least a problem for her, is that I dont have the "cant do without her" feeling....Am I just broken?
I too was burned by my who cheated with my best friend. Took me a long time to get over the loss of my "true love" and feel okay again.

I'll be honest, I will not be dependent on any one person again for my happiness, my financial stability, or all my emotional needs. I love my wife and I think she is a great woman, but if she decided to leave I would not beg her to stay. I love her, but I could survive without her just fine.

So no, I don't believe you are broken. Others may say I am doing my wife a disservice by not giver her everything. I will counter that I work very hard to meet her emotional & stability needs, which is important to her.
 
#18 ·
A certain amount of interdependence is healthy. Co-dependence is not.

If you're working hard to meet her needs in the relationship, that's good. I'll admit, though, as a giver and out of a desire for a truly reciprocal relationship, I would want to know that my partner is relying on me to meet his needs as well, because I want to give that to him. What needs do you rely on her to meet?
 
#17 ·
my current gf who I have been seeing for two years. She is great. We are together 51 of 52 weekends. Her kids are out of the home as well. She and I enjoy the same tastes in music, same tastes in adventure, have traveled quite a bit, get along great. The problem is, at least a problem for her, is that I dont have the "cant do without her" feeling. (We get together on Wednesday nights during the week and then the weekend. Living 30 minutes apart.) I dont know if it is my age (57) but I remember a time when I just could not wait to see my wife, missed her a lot when we were apart, not there at all. With my gf I call/text her daily. But she wants more. I talked with her repeately when we first started dating, told her where I was, what my plans were. I havent changed. I wish I could have the feelings she desires, but dont think I would with anyone. Am I just broken?
Were my gf to give me any ultimatiums I would take a pass. I would miss her, but my life would not be devestated. I wish I could have that feeling again, but wishing dont make it so. In his defense, I am sure you do make him happy, and he does care for you deeply, in my case that is the best I have.
I'm in the same exact situation with my gf but about 20 years younger.

I think when you get burned like we did it changes how you feel about future relationships.

Perhaps a way of the brain protecting your psyche from future traumatic injury?

I'm not sure. If you figure it out eventually, PM me. I'd love to know too LOL.
 
#21 ·
This thread has hit home for me. I have been dating a man for 2 years. He has told me he is emotional detached since his divorce 5 years ago. He sounds very much like Hoosier.

As some of you know, I have been back and forth about breaking up with him because he cant say I love you or integrate me fully into his life. I am not looking for marriage or living together, but I do want someone to be fully integrated into my life . I know he cares for me. But I believe if I broke it off, he would not be devastated. I think he would slot someone else in. I really think he is looking for companionship and intimacy on his terms. I think this relationship will go as long as I let it as overall we get along great and his needs are fulfilled. Unfortunately mine are not and I am growing restless. Its sad that this relationship has to end because he chooses not to risk. It is incredibly selfish of him because I will be the one very hurt once this ends. Not him.
 
#22 ·
And that's his intention, of course (the guy you're dating, not necessarily Hoosier). He refuses to become attached and refuses to take a risk because he doesn't want to get hurt (again). Protecting himself is more important than having a truly intimate relationship; a real relationship isn't worth the risk to him.
 
#26 ·
Its SO worth it.
I have been deeply hurt and/or betrayed by many in my life, not least by my first husband of 23 years, a parent who committed suicide, and a father who cheated on and betrayed my mother and us children. I probably had far more baggage than most.

I am so glad that I didn't get those things stop me from trusting and hoping and loving and committing again. Much of life is a risk, we either stay in our self imposed prisons and live a cold lonely life, or we step out and enjoy the warmth and colour and freedom.The choice is ours.

I have never regretted marrying my second husband of 11 years, in fact we have both helped each other to heal more. How sad if I had missed out on what I have now because of fear(because its all about fear).
 
#24 ·
I feel for all of you here who have these partners who are so half hearted in their commitment. If they dont want to commit, then why did they date you in the first place? Honestly, its a DECISION to commit, and I see it as they are using you.
For us who were both very hurt and betrayed by our first spouses after long marriages, it was always going be a a commitment or nothing, as we don't believe in sex or living together outside marriage. We were married within 9 months of meeting. If I had met a man as has been described here, I would not have ever got serious, a man who refuses to commit yet is happy to use me for sex isn't for me.
Its cruel to treat another like that, if you don't love her and refuse to give more, then end it and don't date again. Dont mess with peoples emotions and feelings.Stay single.
 
#28 ·
I feel for all of you here who have these partners who are so half hearted in their commitment. If they dont want to commit, then why did they date you in the first place? Honestly, its a DECISION to commit, and I see it as they are using you.

Dating is a decision to commit? really? No, dating is exploring what you want and don't want. How else are you going to find out unless you look for. Maybe you blindly stumbled into a relationship with some one with similar wants and needs of your own, but most people actually have to go out an look for it.
For us who were both very hurt and betrayed by our first spouses after long marriages, it was always going be a a commitment or nothing, as we don't believe in sex or living together outside marriage. We were married within 9 months of meeting. If I had met a man as has been described here, I would not have ever got serious, a man who refuses to commit yet is happy to use me for sex isn't for me.
Its cruel to treat another like that, if you don't love her and refuse to give more, then end it and don't date again. Dont mess with peoples emotions and feelings.Stay single.
No, what is cruel is to think someone is using you because they won't commit to a relationship under your expectations
 
#25 ·
OP, personally I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
I suppose I have my own take, since I could very well live without my husband if circumstances deemed it to be fate. I could walk out this door tomorrow with all of my stuff and I know I'd be fine. I'd be sad, but fine.

I choose to remain with him because I love him and because our relationship is strong. I would never say, however, that I can't live without him.

Maybe there's more to this... maybe there is some deeper explanation from your perspective, but I look at it pretty simply.
There was once a time, when I was married to my ex-H, when I would have told anyone I could not live without him.
I have since become more mature to life, because of my experiences, and know now that I do not have such a need any longer, because I have a much more healthy sense of self now than I did then.
Perhaps your gf is not in the same boat as you, and has a genuine, constant need for you in her life. Maybe she is still healing from her own past pain. Whether her need for you is healthy or unhealthy depends on the level of her reaction. If she acknowledges it but doesn't make a big deal of it, that means her opinion differs but she is not punishing you for it. If she makes you wrong for not feeling the precise way she does, then I'd start to call it an unhealthy need.

My H knows that I'd be fine without him. I know he'd be fine without me. Losing one another is not a fear for either of us. It's hard to describe, but not having that fear makes our relationship somewhat impervious and resilient to emotional blackmail (not that either of us ascribe to it, just saying). There are many things I no longer fear in life, and being devoid of that fear means that no one can attempt to threaten me with it.
 
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#29 ·
OP, I think you (and others) err in describing yourselves as "broken". You aren't broken, you are changed. I think that that change comes from whatever happened to us and how we perceive it. If you had totally invested in your marriage and were left or cheated on, you might perceive your experience as betrayal. On the other hand another person may perceive the same situation as being unfulfilled or unappreciated or abandoned (as in my SO cheated because they didn't love me as I want to be loved). This may be the case with your GF. If she felt somewhat abandoned as opposed to feeling betrayed, she might be looking to feel the void of being abandoned, whereas you are looking to protect your wound of being betrayed.
I don't know which is a better way of looking at things. You see it as getting over a "childish" need to be loved (which you no longer believe in) by another, whereas she sees it as finding that true love (which she still believes in).
As I type this I guess it comes down to realism vs idealism?
Personally I felt betrayal from my divorce. I had invested 110% into my marriage. Now I look at love as a temporary thing, because I know that is what it is. I have met women and men who feel the same way. I have also met women and men who are still on that quest. (Ironically, there appears to be some correlation to religious belief)
 
#57 ·
OP, I think you (and others) err in describing yourselves as "broken". You aren't broken, you are changed. I think that that change comes from whatever happened to us and how we perceive it. If you had totally invested in your marriage and were left or cheated on, you might perceive your experience as betrayal. On the other hand another person may perceive the same situation as being unfulfilled or unappreciated or abandoned (as in my SO cheated because they didn't love me as I want to be loved). This may be the case with your GF. If she felt somewhat abandoned as opposed to feeling betrayed, she might be looking to feel the void of being abandoned, whereas you are looking to protect your wound of being betrayed.
I don't know which is a better way of looking at things. You see it as getting over a "childish" need to be loved (which you no longer believe in) by another, whereas she sees it as finding that true love (which she still believes in).
As I type this I guess it comes down to realism vs idealism?
Personally I felt betrayal from my divorce. I had invested 110% into my marriage. Now I look at love as a temporary thing, because I know that is what it is. I have met women and men who feel the same way. I have also met women and men who are still on that quest. (Ironically, there appears to be some correlation to religious belief)
This exactly. I am not broken but what has happend to me has radically changed my view on things like love, commitment, marriage and relationships. And honestly most of those changes are very good. I am very different from the man who lived all things for his wife.
 
#30 ·
"Its sad that this relationship has to end because he chooses not to risk. It is incredibly selfish of him because I will be the one very hurt once this ends. Not him."

As for him chooseing not to risk. In my case it is not a matter of "choice" I just dont have that feeling.. The same if you are homosexual/heterosexual you are attacked to a certain gender, you dont pick that gender, you dont choose which gender appeals to you. He is not choosing to not "be in love with you" just what it is.

As for selfish of him, that makes me feel a bit guilty. In the case of my current gf, from day one, I told her how I was, I told her that I could only promise her what was now, more than once. She now wants more, if I dont give it to her she is going to be hurt, probably pretty badly. Oh, and I would be hurt to have to "slide someone else in" just not enough to make me change I guess.
 
#31 ·
You don't sound broken to me, but you do sound very independent without the desire for an interdependent relationship, which is what I'd need from a partner. It could be that you don't have this need with your gf or maybe you don't have this need at all. After 2 years though I think you'd know if you want to take it to the next level with her- and to me, that would mean an interdependent relationship in marriage. Sounds like she wants this from you and you simply don't. IMHO, she should let you know this and if you can't commit, cut you loose if she wants to be married again. But I'd encourage you to really ask yourself if you could see marriage (an interdependent relationship) with this woman, and if not, maybe it's time to let her go or be very honest with her that this is the most you're willing to give. Otherwise, it seems to me that you're leading her on.
 
#34 ·
"I feel for all of you here who have these partners who are so half hearted in their commitment. If they dont want to commit, then why did they date you in the first place? "

Dating is a lot of different things to different people. Just because one does not want to get married or move in with someone, does not mean that they should therfore disqualify themselves from dating. It might surprise you to know that there are women who would very much want to date a man in just the same way. If you would have your way, then that woman, and I, would be sent to our homes, never to meet, because of what we seek is different than you. Hows that a good idea?

As long as both people are very upfront in what they are looking for, and communicate those desires frequently then no one should have a problem. Can those desires change, certainly, probably. Then it is up to the person to determin if the relationship is working for them. If not, get out. But dont be mad at the other person because they were who they said they were and didnt change. geeez
 
#39 ·
I don't think you're broken.

I don't believe in soul mates but I really think there is a feeling or connection when you find the right person. I never had that feeling of needing anyone until I met my husband, then I couldn't get enough of him. Why him, not any other guys I dated? They weren't jerks.
 
#49 · (Edited)
i guess what gets me in my circumstance is he keeps telling me lets see where it leads. As if there is a possibility of things developing to something more. But honestly after 2 years, you should feel something, know something. If I gave him pause, I could understand but I have never cheated in any of my relationships and have been nothing but good to him. Its sad he cant let go enough to trust me and maybe feel something. I think he is a good guy at his core but a broken one too.

I put my self out there after my broken marriage. I guess I need to find someone willing to do the same. Its sad.


Hoosier: I do want to say I appreciate your honesty. This is really helping me to understand my guy as well. At least you are asking the question to yourself (or are self aware). I am not sure many men are doing that.
 
#58 ·
i guess what gets me in my circumstance is he keeps telling me lets see where it leads. As if there is a possibility of things developing to something more. But honestly after 2 years, you should feel something's ing, know something. If I gave him pause, I could understand but I have never cheated in any of my relationships and have been nothing but good to him. Its sad he cant let go enough to trust me and maybe feel something. I think he is a good guy at his core but a broken one too.

I put my self out there after my broken marriage. I guess I need to find someone willing to do the same. Its sad.


Hoosier: I do want to say I appreciate your honesty. This is really helping me to understand my guy as well. At least you are asking the question to yourself (or are self aware). I am not sure many men are doing that.
what is it you would like him to know?

I ask because I know if I were ever to take the marriage plunge again it would take years and years of dating to get there. 2 years In the grand scheme doesn't seem like long at all
 
#52 ·
OP, the fact that you are asking yourself this question is a great thing. You have attained a level of self awareness that many never get to. You are in control of your life and you get to choose. A consequence of your choice may be that your GF decides to end it. At that point you still get to decide. You get to decide if she is worth it or not. Just as she has gotten to decide for herself. The only thing you owe anyone else is honesty, which is all that you should expect from anyone else.
 
#53 ·
I've read this thread too long and I'm seeing a lot of issues. People are using imprecise language to describe the emotions they feel. I saw LOVE, commitment, and secure. The one I keep looking for is Vulnerable. In a way I see Hoosiers girl saying I Can't be Secure with you because you aren't vulnerable to me.

I'm sure it is more complicated than that and I do tend to focus on power in the relationship. Here are my thoughts on vulnerability. No relationship is without risk. Even you already admit that if this relationship ends you will be hurt. FIP is dancing around the difference between inter-dependency and codependency, which is really A healthy level of dependency vs. an unhealthy level of dependency. What you need to realize is that your wall is not effectively protecting you from dependence. And it really can't. You will always be dependent on something.

I have a friend who is a self proclaimed Hermit. How can that statement be true? how can he be a Hermit, and have a friend? But he has many friends. Most of us see him on his terms, we don't visit him at his house. We don't pop in unexpectedly. But even with his self imposed distance he relies on other people. He gets happiness (quite a bit of it to judge by his demeanor) out of his interactions with groups of people. We all know that he could survive without us, but we remain friendly with him because we are rewarded emotionally for being around him.

I do think a healthy relationship can be built with a limited amount of mutual dependence. Probably not with this particular woman.
 
#65 ·
I think it is all a matter of perspective still. To some, love might encompass "not wanting to get married or live together". But to some one else it might be the all-in commitment that comes with marriage.

To anyone who feels betrayal, they may still be equating love with marriage and are not willing to go there again. OTOH, those who have felt abandonment may not make that same equivocation

I cared a great deal for every woman I have had a relationship with post divorce. But that doesn't mean I am willing to take the plunge of marriage ever again.
 
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