Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 02:45 PM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

"Traditional" marriage roles are certainly more blurred. This could be problematic for those who have trouble dealing with complexity.

It also creates opportunity, as many households now benefit from two incomes. The real issue is one of time, as the number of hours in a day is fixed, so "modern" marriages must juggle the demands of two careers, children and family ... all while finding "quality time" for the relationship.

The one element that seems to remain constant is that marriages where spouses communicate well and are clear about their goals and needs -- and are prepared to accept the trade-offs and responsibility that come with achieving them -- seem more likely to succeed.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 06:33 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

Speaking of the 'Simple Things" in life & marriage... a time where daily life didn't seem as hectic, rushed...less stress...you might want to click on @southbound 's thread here...

The differences among us

Myself & him.. I think we're 2 of the "simpliest" posters on this forum ...we've spoken many times on the goodness we have gleamed from our Grandparents day...I was surely influenced by my Grandmother, her love story... fond memories of all her siblings, their marriages...

I am not sure it's a matter of expecting too much ... what I see is an ever increasing dysfunctional society, breeding more dysfunctional people.... we now live in a "throw away" age...we have put success before character.... sex before an emotional connection....Partying seems to be a right of passage for our young people...Trust is very hard to come by....Marriage is just a piece of paper and we have no shame anymore..

Morality has become a bad word....Independence is like a God, we have radical feminists saying we don't need a man & "Men going there Own way" -giving up women.. all of this just pits the genders against each other...being influenced by any of these extremes could give us a real "attitude" that is not workable with finding authentic love & connection with another....

Our TV shows DRIP with infidelity, then we have Tinder.....the breakdown of the family = more & more dysfunction...

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sapientia said: It also creates opportunity, as many households now benefit from two incomes. The real issue is one of time, as the number of hours in a day is fixed, so "modern" marriages must juggle the demands of two careers, children and family ... all while finding "quality time" for the relationship.
This is what I often see ....too many putting material wants, being able to buy every new Toy , gadget and new cars ...these seem to be more important over downgrading for more of that time together.. for many couples..

Now if they both feel this way.. and enjoy their lifestyle.. that's one thing..

I am always in awe of the couple's who take a step back.. cut out some of the excess -and focus on what will be lasting.. more time with family etc..
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 08:31 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

SA, what do you feel we should have shame for?

Totally sincere question, btw. I am not saying I disagree. Just curious as to your view.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 11:03 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

Sometimes we expect too much of ourselves too...
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 08:48 PM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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SA, what do you feel we should have shame for?

Totally sincere question, btw. I am not saying I disagree. Just curious as to your view.


I will answer this post with a question...

Without a sense of Shame over something we did / said ...is there ever any guilt , leading to remorse, a change in behavior.. some empathy to someone we've wronged...trying to make something RIGHT?

Look at these Presidential candidates.. is there no Shame when Trump has blatantly made fun of the handicapped / his bullying behavior - and we let it go!...we turn a blind eye... is there no shame when Hilary lied - or whatever she did with these dang emails.. I don't follow Politics much at all... it just seems today.. no matter what someone is caught in..... they don't step down any more ...they conveniently deny, LIE, anything to save face, or give half a$$ed apologies, basically "lip service" to the masses & keep going..

Experts say Narcissism is growing among our young people... Narcissists lack empathy.. they do not feel guilt..

I've read that one can feel SHAME and not guilt. I do not understand this.. I can not mentally connect those dots. Shame is NOT a place we should STAY.. it is paralyzing... some get STUCK THERE.. this helps no one...

But it has it's initial purpose...for a healthy individual it will move us to GUILT ...this then motivates us to seek reconciliation, give that sincere apology, seeking to change our behavior.. that is either hurting us or others around us...

But then there is the dilemma of what IS right & wrong.. on this many will bicker & bite & not agree anyway..... as "moral relativism" has become the norm...



Brene Brown, the "Shame Researcher" has explained it like this... Shame says "I am bad"... Guilt says "I did something Bad"... which is clearly a better motivator.. some people see the 2 the same.. saying it's semantics.. talking to our oldest earlier.. he explained Shame is more related to cultural values/ expectations in any given group, and this group seeks to exclude us -putting shame on us..

We can see how this can humiliate & damage a person ... it's far better to not shame but correct, separate what was done (this being a bad action) from the person who did it..

Remember these from one of your threads I posted..

It's surely a deep subject.. still trying to gain a clearer understanding in my mind to be honest.... basically what I see is many things, such as down right lying, are easily "excused" today (after all everyone does it)....people in the dating world have accepted "ghosting"/ "breaking up" through Text.. and we wonder why Trust is so hard to find... it all comes back to not caring.. no guilt, shame if we hurt another person.. that it doesn't matter if we treat them with dignity....be an example people !

I do miss some of those older fashioned values...

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 11:30 PM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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I am not sure it's a matter of expecting too much ... what I see is an ever increasing dysfunctional society, breeding more dysfunctional people.... we now live in a "throw away" age...we have put success before character.... sex before an emotional connection....Partying seems to be a right of passage for our young people...Trust is very hard to come by....Marriage is just a piece of paper and we have no shame anymore..

Morality has become a bad word....

This is what I often see ....too many putting material wants, being able to buy every new Toy , gadget and new cars ...these seem to be more important over downgrading for more of that time together.. for many couples..
Wanting success before character; that is what I see a lot today. I think some people would rather put up with a little drama and trouble from their spouse as long as they have their toys and a flashy lifestyle than to live a modest lifestyle and have a spouse of rock-solid character.

I always thought that if a woman could look into a crystal ball and see for certain what a man would be like, I always thought a man that was totally honest, treated the woman like a lady, would never cheat, had a friendly personality, would be a good father, and wouldn't make life stressful on her, like being an alcoholic, would be what any woman would value most, but I've discovered that alone is not as hot of a commodity as i thought it was unless it has some flash with it.

Personally, I would rather have a woman that worked at the Dollar Store and fit the above characteristics than one who had a lot classier job and more wealth but was lacking in those characteristics.

As for marriage just being a piece of paper and people having no shame anymore; I realize there can be some situations where divorce is the best route, but people once viewed marriage as a lifelong commitment. It might not always turn out that way, but they went into it with that as their goal. I don't think some people believe that strongly anymore. I even know of one couple who told the preacher that they wanted to get married, and if it didn't work out, they could always get divorced. That's not a very positive attitude in my opinion, and even though a lot of couples might not actually say that, I don't feel they believe in staying together as strongly as people once did.

There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands- John Mellencamp
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 03:44 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

It's as if the permanence has gone from out of life, somehow.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 07:51 PM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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It's as if the permanence has gone from out of life, somehow.
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All the while, life itself has remained impermanent.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 01:30 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

I have very high expectations from my partner, my kids and myself, no problem living it, asking for it or saying it.

The so called "old fashioned" morals are still alive and well in my circle but we don't go on about it because being respectful and decent is a given, it is not abnormal or something from the past.

We have a very busy life here but it is also well balanced. I'm just not seeing the issues that some are seeing.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 03:40 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

I see it slightly differently. I think many get upset their spouse doesn't live according to ideals, but their own actions no longer follow as well. Can someone who has the latest smart phone, car, flat screen TV,... really say they aren't materistic, that they like the simple things.
Many who say they value the old ways only value them in their memories, not in their lives and actions. The trouble comes though when children or spouses see our actions not our memories.


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but take heart, parts of it can be delightful."
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 09:54 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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I see it slightly differently. I think many get upset their spouse doesn't live according to ideals, but their own actions no longer follow as well. Can someone who has the latest smart phone, car, flat screen TV,... really say they aren't materistic, that they like the simple things.
Many who say they value the old ways only value them in their memories, not in their lives and actions. The trouble comes though when children or spouses see our actions not our memories.
I see what you are saying. Personally, I don't have all the latest, fancy gadgets. Yes, I have a version of all those, but it's not up to date and the most expensive out there. I still have an old flip phone, my main tv is 32" instead of one that takes up the entire wall, and my vehicle is ten years old, but I seem to make it just fine.

I guess that's why I don't seem to have to be so busy all the time trying to make all the money I can make. I enjoy the simpler things in life.

There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands- John Mellencamp
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 12:40 PM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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I see it slightly differently. I think many get upset their spouse doesn't live according to ideals, but their own actions no longer follow as well. Can someone who has the latest smart phone, car, flat screen TV,... really say they aren't materistic, that they like the simple things.
Many who say they value the old ways only value them in their memories, not in their lives and actions. The trouble comes though when children or spouses see our actions not our memories.
Here is a recent thread ...where the poster said she's been laughed at -for not being modern enough..

I hand wash dishes & line/hang dry clothes, anyone else?
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 10:04 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?
From my point of view, the problem is we set the bar too low and are disappointed when they only do the absolute bare minimum to hit it.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 03:27 AM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

I think people do expect too much from their spouses, but it doesn't have anything to do with materialism. I read a great quote in a book that I don't have with me, but it basically said that people expect their spouses to be their best friend, playmate for leisure activities, a shoulder to cry on, an enthusiastic lover who wants sex exactly when they want it, meet all their needs without having to communicate them, etc. We all expect some kind of storybook romance, where all the difficulty ends at the wedding. But life gets in the way, kids often draw partners away from each other, they have to contend with work and long commutes, household chores, etc. Think of how upset we get when our spouse disappoints us or doesn't meet our needs.

In the "good old days," I don't think spouses expected to meet as many of their needs with the other. It seems like people had more friends and more free time. Kids spent more time outdoors and not in the house. If they had activities, they likely walked themselves instead of having to be driven 40 minutes each way. At the same time, people were trapped in marriages, either by legal or social pressures, and were often desperately unhappy. I think spousal abuse, child abuse, and alcoholism, if not more prevalent, were kept quiet and there wasn't intervention from outside sources, even if they noticed something was wrong. I think the "good old days" were a mixed bag. My own grandfather was a veteran and an alcoholic. He and my grandmother stayed married until he died and they fought all the time. My mom said that when she was a kid, she wished they would divorce. There was abuse in the family, too, but it was a "private" thing.

Being realistic and finding a middle ground is the best solution, but difficult given the expectations socialized into us.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 05:48 PM
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Re: Do we expect too much of our spouse in this day and age?

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I think people do expect too much from their spouses, but it doesn't have anything to do with materialism. I read a great quote in a book that I don't have with me, but it basically said that people expect their spouses to be their best friend, playmate for leisure activities, a shoulder to cry on, an enthusiastic lover who wants sex exactly when they want it, meet all their needs without having to communicate them, etc. We all expect some kind of storybook romance, where all the difficulty ends at the wedding. But life gets in the way, kids often draw partners away from each other, they have to contend with work and long commutes, household chores, etc. Think of how upset we get when our spouse disappoints us or doesn't meet our needs.

In the "good old days," I don't think spouses expected to meet as many of their needs with the other. It seems like people had more friends and more free time. Kids spent more time outdoors and not in the house. If they had activities, they likely walked themselves instead of having to be driven 40 minutes each way. At the same time, people were trapped in marriages, either by legal or social pressures, and were often desperately unhappy. I think spousal abuse, child abuse, and alcoholism, if not more prevalent, were kept quiet and there wasn't intervention from outside sources, even if they noticed something was wrong. I think the "good old days" were a mixed bag. My own grandfather was a veteran and an alcoholic. He and my grandmother stayed married until he died and they fought all the time. My mom said that when she was a kid, she wished they would divorce. There was abuse in the family, too, but it was a "private" thing.

Being realistic and finding a middle ground is the best solution, but difficult given the expectations socialized into us.
I'm convinced we are heavily influenced by what we've seen growing up... whether that be Good or Bad.. we carry the memories with us...

My Grandparents did have the story book romance .. she hesitated giving up her pottery job back in those days... but Grandpa wouldn't give up.. he wanted her...he won her heart after years.. they married.. had 2 sons..... he was a wonderful responsible loving husband.. she would share her many photos of their life together... I grew up hearing their stories.. no alcoholism here.. she never felt trapped.. but loved & cared for.. He died when I was 6.. He was the love of Grandma's life...

What I seen in their story is the type of man I wanted... I would not date a man who drank.. or smoked for that matter.. I know such things can get out of hand..

2 dysfunctional people trying to cope with addictions, anger issues - would be no walk in the park.. whether we lived 50 yrs ago.. or today.. whether it was all kept in the family.. or out in the open on Facebook today..

My other Grandparents were very close.. the story went that my Grandmother chased Grandpa...he was a bit of a womanizer but another very responsible man who took care of his family.. he had a bit of a mean streak in him compared to my other Grandfather.....but he wasn't abusive...they did pretty much everything together... even was in the nursing home together at the end, in the same room... This Grandma never felt trapped either.. she took pride in caring for her family... she'd say it was a good life..

Even though a couple of the kids were a bit of a handful.. Grandma used to say .. it was EASY when they were small.. then they grew up... the troubles began...she had more complaints about her children over her husband... (and that was because they chose Lousy men who brought some awful things into their life)... go figure.

As far as expectations.. we shouldn't expect more from another that we're not willing to "Live up to" ourselves... but never settle for someone who's lifestyle you don't respect... I seen the frustration & misery my own Mother invited into her life (after divorcing my father) then running off with an alcoholic yrs later....she had a pretty bad run with men before that time... she didn't even drink... such a waste.
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