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post #31 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-14-2016, 08:02 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

Hey SA,

Thank you so much for you reply; I did listen to every word.

TO answer your husbands rhetorical question: "What's wrong with a clinger?"

If you are both clingers: Nothing. Not one damn thing other than maybe some people (not me) may do the "gag me with a spoon" gesture.

If one of you isn't, it's freaky and unnerving to the one being clung to. And frustrating to the clinger. You start to worry about them and it becomes dysfunctional immediately. . .you sort of hope it will get better but you usually realize one is expecting a level of intimacy that you just can't give. And then you feel like the bad guy. The clinger conversely feels disappointed all the time.

I feel this was a parallel topic, close enough to "Independence"/"Interdependence" that it deserved discussion. I hope that was okay with you.


And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
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post #32 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-14-2016, 08:10 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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One of my husband's lines is "Why get married if you don't want to be with the other person"
Well, I sense THIS other question your husband asked ISN"T rhetorical and is actually a curiosity.

Now. . .I am NO expert by any means on this complicated topic of marriage but I looked at my grandparents. I think their marriage was about well, more "business". . .raising kids, division of domestic labor (cooking her, handy stuff him) provision for basic needs (2 incomes), SOME minor companionship (travel escort), someone to share in big decisions (weddings, funerals, illnesses), sex of course (as a grandchild pretty freaky to think about that but that's how I got here I guess, lol) . . .but. . .he went fishing and she played cards. She was involved in the UAW union and he liked to tile for his work and side jobs.

They almost DIDN"T want to spend time with each other.

They had FRIENDS for that.

They have spouses for the other list I mentioned above.

Who knows. . maybe I integrated a wrong value from that, I'm not sure.

I do feel we have placed this HUGE burden upon the institution of marriage that we (maybe esp. men) can't live up to. I mean, it's great, SO GREAT, what you and your husband have, but I am not even sure that should be the goal, the GOLD STANDARD, you know?

Do you think?

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.

Last edited by Scannerguard; 08-14-2016 at 08:16 PM.
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post #33 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-14-2016, 08:51 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

No way I could marry someone I didn't consider an exceptional companion. And they would also have to perceive me as such.

It is the single most important element - to me.


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Well, I sense THIS other question your husband asked ISN"T rhetorical and is actually a curiosity.

Now. . .I am NO expert by any means on this complicated topic of marriage but I looked at my grandparents. I think their marriage was about well, more "business". . .raising kids, division of domestic labor (cooking her, handy stuff him) provision for basic needs (2 incomes), SOME minor companionship (travel escort), someone to share in big decisions (weddings, funerals, illnesses), sex of course (as a grandchild pretty freaky to think about that but that's how I got here I guess, lol) . . .but. . .he went fishing and she played cards. She was involved in the UAW union and he liked to tile for his work and side jobs.

They almost DIDN"T want to spend time with each other.

They had FRIENDS for that.

They have spouses for the other list I mentioned above.

Who knows. . maybe I integrated a wrong value from that, I'm not sure.

I do feel we have placed this HUGE burden upon the institution of marriage that we (maybe esp. men) can't live up to. I mean, it's great, SO GREAT, what you and your husband have, but I am not even sure that should be the goal, the GOLD STANDARD, you know?

Do you think?
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post #34 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 07:51 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

My husband is my best friend in every was. But for long term relationships, I think it's really important that both partners also encourage independent behaviours. We all have dreams, and it seems to me no fair to stand in the way of someone's dreams.

There have been times I have felt practically abandoned by my husband pursuing his dreams. So common a thing it even has a name "work widow". But it was just a period of time, and things settled down.

Other times he has sacrificed to support my dreams.

I guess if you both always have the same dreams, that would make things easy. But how often does that happen?
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post #35 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 08:07 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

What I take away from this is that "Interdependence far exceeds Independence!"

I really think that's the singular message that God's been trying to convey to us all for years!

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post #36 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 12:31 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

It is a tricky balance. My example is that my wife travels a lot for work. She is very intelligent and attractive. At first, she was happy just hanging out in her room after dinner. She would FaceTime so the kids and I could see and talk with her. Lately, she goes out on her own to bars, the downtown scene, etc. We have had our issues lately in our marriage. So it makes me anxious and worrisome since in the past, this is how she met men. Of course, when she is out, she gets a lot of attention. She likes that attention. She easily could act on it and I would never know. A friend of hers that was in the same line of work was married about a year ago. Her husband from the start told her, you are not going to be on the road. He knew the same scenario existed and did not want to deal with it.

When I express my worry about this behavior, my wife tells me she can do what she wants. And she can, I do not argue that. My point is that she could at least consider my feeling and where I am coming form and possible change her behavior. Why would a married woman go out at 9 pm and not get back to hotel room until 2 am in a large city while she is away from her spouse? What intentions/motives does that person have? I don't think I am asking a lot or being controlling. I just want her to be more thoughtful.
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post #37 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 12:39 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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It is a tricky balance. My example is that my wife travels a lot for work. She is very intelligent and attractive. At first, she was happy just hanging out in her room after dinner. She would FaceTime so the kids and I could see and talk with her. Lately, she goes out on her own to bars, the downtown scene, etc. We have had our issues lately in our marriage. So it makes me anxious and worrisome since in the past, this is how she met men. Of course, when she is out, she gets a lot of attention. She likes that attention. She easily could act on it and I would never know. A friend of hers that was in the same line of work was married about a year ago. Her husband from the start told her, you are not going to be on the road. He knew the same scenario existed and did not want to deal with it.

When I express my worry about this behavior, my wife tells me she can do what she wants. And she can, I do not argue that. My point is that she could at least consider my feeling and where I am coming form and possible change her behavior. Why would a married woman go out at 9 pm and not get back to hotel room until 2 am in a large city while she is away from her spouse? What intentions/motives does that person have? I don't think I am asking a lot or being controlling. I just want her to be more thoughtful.
That you tolerate this without consequences or mirroring likely has a good bit to do with why she continues to behave this way.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #38 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 12:41 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

Mirroring? Are you saying I should go out and do the same thing? That does not seem like the answer if that is what you are suggesting.

If your spouse comes to you and says something you are doing is hurting them, my hope is that most people would do something to change their behavior to make their spouse happy.
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post #39 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 12:46 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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Mirroring? Are you saying I should go out and do the same thing? That does not seem like the answer if that is what you are suggesting.

If your spouse comes to you and says something you are doing is hurting them, my hope is that most people would do something to change their behavior to make their spouse happy.
When a relationship is healthy, that would be the expected outcome.

How about when it isn't?

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #40 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 01:03 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

If it isn't healthy, I do not know the outcome. Everything is deflected back at me when I bring it up. It's my issue of being suspicious or jealous, etc.

Ideally, it would be better just to not have to have her travel. Take the opportunity away to keep her out of those situations.

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post #41 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 01:22 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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Why would a married woman go out at 9 pm and not get back to hotel room until 2 am in a large city while she is away from her spouse? What intentions/motives does that person have?
there is no good answer for this.

at the very least, she enjoys getting hit on. this alone is a huge red flag.

what's the likelihood that it never escalates from there?

have you checked her phone?
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post #42 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 01:27 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

I check her phone and the Verizon bill. Nothing so far. But she also knows I check it!

I cannot answer the likelihood question. One day, I feel like she would do the right thing. The next day, I am certain she would do something because it would be so easy to do it being on the road.
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post #43 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 02:10 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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It varies between couples how much time / togetherness they desire from each other... I'm pretty sure myself & husband are higher on the bar in comparison to the average (beings we're both "Time" & "Touchers" , love language wise)... it hasn't been a tug of war with either of us feeling he's too busy.. or I'm too busy, showing too much independence from each other..

In "His Needs / Her Needs", this particular book about parenting - still the Parents NEED their time alone, this segment ... Click HERE speaks how a couple need a minimum of 15 hours of undivided attention a week ...for intimate affection, sexual fulfillment, intimate conversation & recreational companionship... that could be a little over 2 hours a day if you spread it over a week's time..

We're probably not the norm...I'd rather go shopping with him over any girlfriend.. (not that I like to shop, actually I HATE it -give me Amazon & Ebay please!)....we seem to enjoy most everything together.. except he's went to Gun shows with friends, and I love a good rock concert that he'd rather not get his ear drums blown out seeing...

I'll go to his coin shows with him, he appreciates that... In our earlier years.. I'd even go to the Junk Yard with him... I wanted to help!
I agree with all that you say here, but as others on this thread have said, one person who is committed to doing these things won't get it done. I like to jog, ride bikes (used to be a road racer) even take the dogs for a nice long walk but all she does is sleep. We aren't the norm...going in the opposite direction.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #44 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 05:05 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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Why would a married woman go out at 9 pm and not get back to hotel room until 2 am in a large city while she is away from her spouse? What intentions/motives does that person have?
Um, is this a quiz question?

She's disrespectful? Immature? Maybe a drinking problem? She wants to fool around? She's stupid with her safety?

Did I guess any right?

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
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post #45 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 07:11 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

@RyanWSU1975


Hopefully you're not living in Pullman anymore j/k!!!



But, what your wife is doing on the road, is not an example of "independence in marriage".

Independence, in that situation, would be going about her work day; then getting a meal (perhaps with a mixed group of coworkers/clients)-----then returning to her hotel room alone.

That's independence, responsibility and dedication to the marriage. If she feels horny while she's on the road, she can take a vibrator. If she feels alone, well, that's what she signed up for by accepting that position in the company. There's always things like Skype, for connecting with you and the kids.

She can go work out in the hotel gym. She can read, or watch TV in her room.

I think a job that takes you away from your spouse a lot must just suck bigtime. But some folks can do it no problem. They are independent to an extreme. And if there is trust and honesty, no problem.

But what you describe sounds totally unacceptable.
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