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post #76 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 10:49 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

Naww thanks MEM!
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post #77 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 10:58 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
There is a poster here who feels everything Harley says is out of date, him & his wife started laughing reading about the emotional needs, then threw the book out - this was yrs ago now, as he is divorced & had a few GF's since then.....he spoke how that doesn't describe him or what he needs at all..

This surprised me a bit as even if a # of those didn't fit.. surely a few did....I was tempted to ask WHAT is important to him then... what are his Emotional Wants /desires to sustain a healthy relationship .... I understand some people are put off by the term "NEED" or "NEEDS" since this isn't food, shelter, the air we breathe (that's another post) but we all have innate desires -if we care about intimacy at all ....

Well.. Harley would surely frown on myself & husband enjoying some porn together on occasion... so as much as I resonate with nearly everything he pens... I don't feel this (always) hurts marriages.. it solely depends on the couple.. but he's a Christian man... those are his beliefs, his boundaries... I respect it..

We're just not that wholesome & have no desire to be !!

So @notmyrealname4 ... forget Harley.. do you approve ....or do you long for some changes -to bring you closer together ??

I'm assuming you had a different username before we got our passwords reset with your higher poster count here ....I'm wondering who you are , maybe I know more of your story ?
Hi SA,

AWESOME thread!

I read HNHN and Love Buster's waaaaay long ago, before I realized that my late husband was abusive. I thought both books had some good advice, but the advice wouldn't have been applicable to *my* situation.

If I suggested the Policy of Joint Agreement to my late husband, he would have LOVED it. And, he would have poo-pooed EVERY. SINGLE. SUGGESTION. I made. He would have done it because he was controlling. And 'needy'. And 'clingy'.

As it was, he turned every 'want' into a 'need' because he knew that 'needs' outweigh 'wants'. A 'want' is a luxury. A 'need' is a requirement, that is necessary in order to fulfill a 'want' (aka, a desire).

Anywho, I was never a big fan of Harley. I took his messages to encourage couples to be more dependent on each other; not interdependent.

And interdependence is key!
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post #78 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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I don't think human needs can be broken neatly into categories.
but we need to start somewhere, don't we ?

I've took some criticism for the thread below in my signature for making a list & expounding upon each...I put my heart & soul into that thread....I felt I did something good.... then WHAM...it's like some wanted to reject everything I said - they were turned off basically ....because I laid it out in a "numbered way", basically a LIST -speaking of specific ways to speak love & Admiration to our husbands.. DARN ... BAD ME !!!

That kinda threw me....I realized in that discussion how some people just don't like lists.. or points written out.. Period...

I am very different ... I am more apt to read something and find a better understanding when someone breaks things down into categories... or in an outline of sorts.. ( @MEM2020 is very good at this ) ... it helps my understanding...but sure.. we can add to it.. or take issue, counter what we read - it's not necessarily true in our situation.. which is what I am seeking with my threads really..

If everyone just agreed.. discussions here would be very boring.. wouldn't they ? It's well & good to have some challenging posts - offering another angle !

Quote:
At the same time, if this book (HNHN) draws people together and improves their marriage; I'm all for happy humans.
what I appreciate about his book is this.. he's not a pie in the sky author.. he darn well realizes .. if you suck in how you treat your spouse.. don't be foolish.. you are opening the door -to one of you possibly stepping out, Yes an affair...

So get back to what he calls "Extraordinary Care" towards each other.. Romantic love can be found again.. I think for the most part.. he's right...but then again.. I think a couple has to have enough natural compatibility to make something work.. so maybe I am even a little less Harley than I come off..

I am sure him & his wife are naturally compatible.. I would be banging my head against the wall if I wasn't matched well.. I will admit I think I am "too selfish" to survive that..

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lol, you would have made a good counselor yourself you love researching and understanding human needs and behavior.
Yes I do.. from my teens years.. I was reading about WHY people believe the way they do (religion).. to why we ACT the way we do (temperaments) to where Romance came from (to love & be loved is the greatest fulfillment - so I've always felt).... then finally SEX became my focus... how much fun was that !!

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I had a different username from before the password snafu.
Basically I was pretty sure a relative was hunting around here looking for posts that were mine, so I got it changed (thanks mods).

I have given up on being closer together. I am trying, instead, to be content with what I have. Being disappointed once in a while is bearable; constant disappointment is acidic to the soul.
That's admirable.. but also very difficult , you've had to grieve or may still be grieving what you no longer believe will happen...

What you said makes me think of this scripture...when I couldn't conceive.. I remember reading this, feeling like this..... ...I longed to see the 2nd half come to pass.. even when I doubted & was angry.... I prayed anyway.

I hope somehow, some twist of fate, that you both find your way back to each other..
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post #79 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 08:07 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

Hey SA:

As far as your reactions from other posters that may be negative, I actually wonder (only a wonder) if you have ADD. One of the reasons my marriage failed, actually the BIGGEST reason, was figuring out about 2 years later I had ADD, since a child, and it was undiagnosed, severe on the spectrum. My parents actually had an "intervention", lol, as my house had 43 unfinished projects in it.

I don't medicate (you know why). . .I basically manage and live with it.

Don't be freaked out if you do; we all have it. IT's a spectrum disorder.

But your posts remind me of myself in so many ways. . .you continually try to find context to the world. Just realize. . .or what I had a counselor tell me. . .most people don't do this.

Someone else sees a cup of coffee and they see a cup of coffee. . .does it have sugar in it? Probably not.

You and I see a cup of coffee and we're thinking, "Coffee is grown in Columbia. Columbia is south of the equator, I think. I should really look up that up. It may be north of the equator. I have noticed that countries near the equator tend to be economically volatile. I wonder if temperature and economic volatility are interrelated at all." And our brain is off until something else distracts us.

And I think ADD people are good lovers like you and I. And while I have stated and still state I admire your penchant to maintain a great relationship, you have also said what a saint your husband is. I bet this is true (my lovers were all saints to put up with me).

Context. . .we just can't help ourselves. . .our brain is off. It's irresistable. It's a gift and a curse. And when we expose some people to our minds, they react negatively. It's a hurricane in there; it's not a sunny day in a meadow.

Not saying you have it, but I wonder through peering into your writings, penned at 12:12 a.m. (another sign of an ADD person - penning thoughts late hours).

PS: Another sign - your desire for a large family/drama/chaos. ADD people have a part of their brain that needs drama to "stimulate" it to feel normal. That was why I gravitated to ER work. It's estimated that 50% of people who work in an ER have ADD (that stat, unconfirmed astounds me). Your desire to be a SAHM with a large family. . .these writings. . .I dunno... diagnosing from afar and digitally here. . .but its quacking like a duck.

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.

Last edited by Scannerguard; 08-17-2016 at 08:18 AM.
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post #80 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 12:46 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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Ok Steve .... I read this ...but WHY ? Are you free or bound?
I was just trying to be funny with that post, but since you asked, I'm married, but it's not the marriage that I had hoped for.
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post #81 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

Seriously @Scannerguard ....your wondering...Let me address....NO.. I don't have Attention Deficit Disorder...nor has anyone ever suggested something like this to me.. you'd be the 1st..

My brain is not like a hurricane (well maybe when I'm PMSing - I've felt it stuck on a hamster wheel...like a rain cloud is following me) but that goes with the territory there.. then it passes.. and everything is sunshine & roses again.....

Why would communicating relationship issues / seeking to find a helpful "context" a couple can live with , showing interest here = having some misfired brain function....Is it an odd past time.. well sure.. I suppose it is!!.... Maybe I'd be better off joining a Gym ..I don't know...I just don't have any desire to get all hot & Sweaty -at least not in that way..

I would never go those lengths wondering about a cup of coffee, running with all that...I realize just an example...but this I can't say happens with me..

I enjoy bouncing various subjects off of other people... why not.. it's learning.. it opens our world wider to others experiences.. I also LOVE the History Channel, Documentaries and Non-fiction.. this is what I'd seek in a Library .... We all focus on what interests us.. I went to the store today.. seeking to buy a new vacuum but decided to come back home , read reviews online, do a little research before I randomly buy a piece of junk at Walmart I might regret..

What any of our brains are focusing on at any given moment.. if only we could open our heads up & peer in, that might be scary!.... 3rd son is soon to be taking Electrical Engineering.... I know when he's quiet.. like waiting in a hour long line for a roller coaster.. he is drawn to the mechanics of the hydraulics - what stops the coaster.. he's fascinated by all of it....his wheels are spinning....mentally piecing it together...we talked about this in the coaster line one day..... Cool... would my mind go there.. hell no.. I might be checking out some hot guy in front of us or thinking those loud obnoxious people beside us needs to go die! I would be "observing people" more so..

43 unfinished Projects !@# ... How did your wife not want to kill you Scanner !! ... Oh but she did.. right !?

When I start a project.. I am bound & determined to finish it or I'd be highly upset with myself, I don't like things hanging in the air.. I'm not a procrastinator ...I like things done "yesterday"... I can be a perfectionist in some areas ... Yes...but then others.. not at all ! .... I do have a lot of energy... a little high test for a woman, probably. .. this week I've not caught up on my sleep.... I am working near 40 hrs & I still try to find time to post here.. I started this thread.. and I want to add to it...

I LIKE to THINK....I Love to communicate.... why .. I don't know.. I am also introverted and like to hibernate down on the Farm too....I could go long stretches of time just me & husband and not care if I see another soul.. this includes our kids !!

When I use the terms I wanted "the Drama, the Chaos" speaking of children.. maybe it's because I know OTHERS feel children are THIS, so I use those words... but truth is.. I would not seek Drama & Chaos.. (maybe I shouldn't use these words, if this is the impression I am giving)....

Really...our kids have been very easy to Raise.. good grades, we love their friends, virtually no drama.. the worst has been when our oldest put his arm through a window, freak accident, almost severed a tendon (the worry!)....and 2nd son's devastating heart break (feeling HIS pain, again the worry!) ...but outside of this, the normal ebb & flow of parenting , it's been nearly all smooth sailing here... we are thankful !

I would enjoy some solitude as much as anyone else.. A beautiful "take me away" moment would be kicking back...laying on a hammock under a shade tree , book in my hand...no kids.. no interruptions.. the birds singing in the background...a slice of heaven..



I do feel.. our life would be rather BORING without some kids.. we're not exactly the most adventurous couple around, being "home-bodies" and all.. we've always tried to watch our $$ carefully so we're not out running here & there, enjoying the high life.. But yes.. children have added a great deal to our lives...

I envied my friends growing up with large close knit families... I wanted that.. (is this so Odd , far fetched - actually I think it may be more common than you think for an only child)... so it makes sense I wanted to give our children siblings.. something I never had..

I suppose by saying my husband is a Saint.. this is speaking I am "hell fire" to live with somehow.. I guess this is another exaggeration I may need to lay down...I'm not THAT BAD.. nor was I ever that bad...

Is he more Patient, caring & loving than I feel the average Joe is... I believe so... He has seen me through some hard times ....when I hated living with my step Mother, when she'd put notes on the fridge door to keep my f'n hands off the food.. I cried on his shoulder ..I was angry, I was a damsel in distress (Men should RUN LIKE hell -isn't this what we tell them!)......I wanted out of there .... then years of worrying we may never have another child, I wasn't always a Joy....Yet he would say I wasn't all that bad..

Outside of those seasons of my life.. .I am generally a happy bubbly woman.....even if I have a "realist" "Pessimistic" side to me as well... I care about my own happiness, YES (don't we all).... but I don't want it at the expense of others, dragging them down...even during the bad times.. I validated him - thanked him for how he's always treated me.. I always gave back too..

I strive to be self aware in all my dealings, I do care to get along with other people, to be more of a blessing over a burden of some sort..

I think we all have some similarities with other posters here in given areas (like you've noticed some similarities between us & wanting some context), but it could end there you see....

Now me reading you....I'd bet you are a "E X T P" on Temperament tests "Extroverted ___ Thinking Perceiving" ... tell me if I am right ?
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post #82 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 08:36 PM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

Hmmm. I reacted the same way a bit the first time. . .a little annoyed. I swear I didn't mean anything by it.

But, I just see you finding context to everything; it's totally cool! If you are, seriously WELCOME TO THE CLUB. If not, then my apologies for freaking you. (or insulting, but it's really not an insult)

But yeah, I do just blurt out things, very undiplomatic of me at times. . .again, sorry if I offended.

Yeah, um, the kid/drama thing, but here's the way I see it and who knows. . .I MAY BE TOTALLY OFF here. . .but no matter how you slice it. . .5 kids is drama. Good drama to you. But drama nonetheless. Chaos HAS to abound. Just like the ER. But that's when you are at your best. . .you are getting the stimulation you need. I could deny the ER isn't drama; it's just a job. But you would come there and see patients in the hallway and say, "How do you DEAL with this? ER nurses screaming for this and that. The phone ringing. Needy patients." But my brain is "on" then.

Furthermore, ADD people are actually a conundrum. . .they go through periods of unfocused but then when they fixate on something. . .it's hyperfocus. For instance, they will write and write and realize they had to pee 1 hour ago. You said that when you were trying to conceive and having kids was the goal, you became very impatient with your husband. The hyperfocus of that time was getting pregnant and you said you were, well, difficult about it (I think you said that. . .correct me if my memory is wrong - maybe you weren't difficult - we could ask your husband ).

You were hyperfocused. But once you conceived, you totally relaxed about it. To an non-ADD person, they would be like "Why all the focus on getting pregnant? Can't it just happen?" But it's just the brain.

Meh. I could be totally off. I don't live with you or know you. I know your writings though and it's quacking like a duck. And again, they are a gift of insight so please forgive me for my undiplomatic posts.

And actually the diagnosis of ADD still remains controversial; some docs don't know if it even exists. It's more a set of traits. You can take online tests and tell me I was wrong. Seriously. I will apologize if wrong. If right, you will say, "Damn you, Scannerguard!" and stew.

But you seem to be on a quest for self-understanding so I thought I would throw it out there. Let me know.

Peace.

(and spot on - my ex-wife did want to kill me. It was hard being married to me. I'm totally down with that. It brought me peace when I realized that and I realized why)

PS: You could just be insightful, self-reflective, meditative and thoughtful and it ends there.

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.

Last edited by Scannerguard; 08-17-2016 at 08:46 PM.
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post #83 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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Yeah, um, the kid/drama thing, but here's the way I see it and who knows. . .I MAY BE TOTALLY OFF here. . .but no matter how you slice it. . .5 kids is drama. Good drama to you. But drama nonetheless. Chaos HAS to abound. Just like the ER. But that's when you are at your best. . .you are getting the stimulation you need. I could deny the ER isn't drama; it's just a job. But you would come there and see patients in the hallway and say, "How do you DEAL with this? ER nurses screaming for this and that. The phone ringing. Needy patients." But my brain is "on" then.
Well yeah I can handle some intensity.. I am focused for this.. I wanted this .... but still I would not say Chaos reigns here.... and it's 6 kids.. 1 flew the nest... 2 will be at college this year....I am a meticulously organized woman... I've never been late on a bill, never bounced a check, I do not miss much and I handle all of our schedules here....If I was scatterbrained.. we'd all be in a mess ! I told my husband about your wonderings.. he doesn't understand why anyone would think that of me..

I could never never work in an ER situation.. that would be TOO MUCH PRESSURE, too much stress for me, on the verge of life & death .. I am in direct care right now.. it's more laid back & I work the graveyard shift... I much prefer that..

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Furthermore, ADD people are actually a conundrum. . .they go through periods of unfocused but then when they fixate on something. . .it's hyperfocus. For instance, they will write and write and realize they had to pee 1 hour ago.
Oh I can be hyperfocused.. been there.. done that.. but this doesn't mean everything else goes to crap... Anyway.. who cares.. why is this even coming up ....how off the beaten path.. you have taken a # of my admitted flaws (hey we all have some .. it's not a big deal) ...and you are hyper focusing on them - trying to make something of it.. then adding my writings are "quacking like a duck"...

Quote:
You said that when you were trying to conceive and having kids was the goal, you became very impatient with your husband. The hyperfocus of that time was getting pregnant and you said you were, well, difficult about it (I think you said that. . .correct me if my memory is wrong - maybe you weren't difficult - we could ask your husband ).
I was Moody, envious of my friends getting pregnant.. but he was there.... he supported me through it all.. . I was tired of people telling me to relax, sometimes I wanted to rip their heads off.. until someone has been there.. they just don't know HOW that feels.. unless they have wanted those same things.

I needed a surgery so no matter how much relaxing I did.. I'd be barren today without the doctors knife so to speak...

Quote:
You were hyperfocused. But once you conceived, you totally relaxed about it. To an non-ADD person, they would be like "Why all the focus on getting pregnant? Can't it just happen?" But it's just the brain.
I'd say this can be similar for someone whose carried these deep desires within their hearts since they were young.. it was a crushing blow to me.....can we just say I have a propensity to get angry when I don't get my way.. Maybe I am a big baby...and I needed some patience..

Obviously I did.. maybe I needed some FAITH.. obviously I did.. as it all worked out -in the end...
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post #84 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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SA,
The thing about that post is that - certain behaviors are like a very rich dessert - double chocolate cake. Too much and it feels bad, maybe really bad.

And it is why it's important to pay attention to how your partner is responding to very 'hot/intense' behaviors. If they respond positively that's terrific. If however, they step away from you - verbally or physically - maybe it's just too much for them at that moment in time. Or too much in general.
I can't say I've ever felt this from my husband.. only the positive....so although we haven't experienced it, it was a very interesting read...and it makes sense ....I did find it rather sad for the one who was wanting more though.. but that's just where I am coming from, as I wouldn't want to push my husband away if he was trying to get closer to me.. it's never been "too much" on my end either..

Quote:
Shoot me for saying this but - there's an awful lot of folks who use 'I love you' as a prompt. For those folks - it's really a question camouflaged as a statement. What they really mean is: Do you love me.
I've seen posts here called out - that they are "fishing"...and yeah it's important to acknowledge our own motivations.. I can't help but think though... if one has to FISH for this reassurance... something is amiss in the relationship, isn't it ?? Is doing the hot & cold dance going to address this ??

When one's actions consistently line up with their words.... reassurance is alive in a relationship.... I've always felt his wanting to spend time, feeling his enjoyment, his engagement & his touch conveyed all I needed... but but but who doesn't appreciate some words of affirmation too.. I certainly do.. I'd never knock it..

I think the only time I questioned or got hung up on something like this... it wasn't even about love.. it was about HIS DESIRE.. I questioned his desire when he couldn't keep up.. never his love... was I loosing my sex appeal.. NOOOOOOO !@#

Heck I can be too forthcoming...I even spoke to him how I cared MORE about this DESIRE over his LOVE .... I was mixed up....all I cared about was.. "Give me the rod - I need it now!"....

The things that flew out of my mouth... it was a crazy time.. but yes.. I longed for feeling he was as HOT as me for it ...feeling this free to express that - in it's own way.. I never for a moment questioned his love.. my sheer vulnerability - he made it so easy..

Quote:
When I say it - only thing I'm looking for is whether M2 seems happy about it. Not to hear it back. If she's happy being loved - I'm good to go. I KNOW M2 loves me. Shows me all the time. Tells me now and then - but not as often as I tell her - which is perfectly fine.
But are you saying it -just to benefit her , to make her happy.. (I mean I guess we do this) or it is more how you are feeling in that moment, coming directly from the basically?

I enjoy expressing my love, satisfaction, happiness ...to validate him... I've told @jld .. a man who didn't care or enjoy this part of me ... I would be bothered -if it meant nothing to him, like "Oh there she goes again!"... like it was a waste of breath.... This doesn't mean I want an insecure man who needs built up ...it's not that... but it does mean I want a "FEELING" man.... a man who appreciates my emotion, and it's expression. Whether this be good or bad.... I want the ability to "move" him too...

So many ways to convey "I love you"... it need not always be words....I especially love those times he comes home, tells me of a song he heard on the radio, thinking of me...it's very special... Music is very moving , it speaks for us..it brings back memories of a time.. a place...when every day he kisses me before he leaves & I'm the 1st thing he looks for when he comes home.. ... how much I would miss if he was taken from me..

We Love Hard.. we will fall HARD...

Quote:
And M2 - doesn't use it as a prompt either. She just asks, especially when she's being difficult in a funny way. Says: But do you love me?
I'm guilty of saying to him (years back now)....he's on top of me telling me I'm his soul mate & how much he loves me, never wants to hurt me and I blurt out .... "But do you DESIRE ME ? "... Oh some of our moments... ...

Last edited by SimplyAmorous; 08-17-2016 at 11:45 PM.
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post #85 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 06:49 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

SA, I do not see anything, in any way, nor ever have, that indicates you are ADD. Nothing at all. As a matter of fact, you are one of the last people I would ever imagine being that way. Totally agree with Mr SA that I cannot understand why anyone would think that about you.

I certainly did not hear any "quacking," though I suspect you are right on the mark that Scannerguard is an E"X"TP. He reminds me of another poster here who is ENTP.

I also totally agree you are a "meticulously organized" woman, who has everything under control in your home/family. What a gift for Mr SA that binder full of all relevant household info is! If anything happened to you, he could just pick up that binder and know what to do.

If Dug and I were to have a binder like that, we would have to make it together. You, otoh, were able to do it all yourself. Mr SA is very lucky!


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #86 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 08:09 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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That would be scary.

I guess we do have to let our spouses be themselves as much as possible. If we love them, we want them to flourish.

But if it is something potentially life-threatening that they enjoy; then I think it is very understanding of you to be so supportive.
I've missed the mark many times over the years; might finally be getting what it's all about. Maybe too, because he makes it easy for me to love and support him, tells me things straight and demonstrates actions.

I'd arrived home from work, he had the massage table set up ready to help ease my neck pain. It's something he said he would do, I'd forgotten all about it. Despite his intention, it wasn't to happen. We finished eating dinner together at the table, which is quality time for us, sharing and chatting, when the 'bat signal' went off and he leaped into action.

In his rush, he accidentally trod on my toe on the way out, felt like I'd stubbed it. I told him not to speed and be careful. He said it wasn't the time to nag him. And he was gone. From the fire engine on the way to the call, he texted, 'Sorry toes xox'

How he could even think about my stubbed toe ha ha, with what he was preparing to face, blew me away... and meant a lot.

Music belongs in a place with hearts beating and brains dreaming and people falling in love. - J.Buckley
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post #87 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 08:52 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

I think the categories aren't rigid.

At one time, I had what I thought was a "romantic" marriage. I did all sorts of corny romantic sh-t, but it was well received. We were extremely close, best friends, the whole thing.

Then, it turned into what was probably perceived by my wife to be a "sponge" relationship. The "romantic" stuff was no longer well received. There was no interest in being close. Increasing the "romantic" load did not bring us closer, it created additional tension.

Later, it turned by default into an "independent" relationship. I mainly try to let go of my desire to connect and seek happiness elsewhere. On the whole, I think I am a more complete person as a result of going through this.

However, I'm not sure there is any real "relationship" in a truly independent existence. It's like, if you expect nothing from the other person, what sort of relationship is it really? The charitable view, I guess, is that it's like a parent/child relationship in which you give but expect nothing back. The not so charitable view is that it's nothing and a total waste of any energy you apply to it.

From time to time, I still "relapse" into seeking a connection. I almost always regret this because I am almost always rejected.

I laugh at the "15 hrs per week" supposed requirement. My wife would rather read by herself or go to the gym by herself or text with her friends than connect with me on any level. I would say we spend less than 30 minutes per week total where we actually interact 1 on 1.

And then the real catch 22 is that she will tell me that she does not feel close to me because we lack an "emotional connection."

I can't even get angry over this anymore because it is all so absurd. I am doing this to myself at this point so I only blame myself for having any expectation that it could be different.
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post #88 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 09:03 AM
jld
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

She feeds herself any way she can, Anon. You have been given advice on how to feed her. It seems to have gone completely unheeded.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #89 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 09:09 AM
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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She feeds herself any way she can, Anon. You have been given advice on how to feed her. It seems to have gone completely unheeded.
your marriage is great so you can't conceive of a man doing the right thing and not being met with love by a woman for doing it

there is a big world out there that does not totally conform to your life experience
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post #90 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Love Busting "Independent behavior" attitude & how it can hurt our marriages.

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SA, I do not see anything, in any way, nor ever have, that indicates you are ADD. Nothing at all. As a matter of fact, you are one of the last people I would ever imagine being that way. Totally agree with Mr SA that I cannot understand why anyone would think that about you.

I certainly did not hear any "quacking," though I suspect you are right on the mark that Scannerguard is an E"X"TP. He reminds me of another poster here who is ENTP.

I also totally agree you are a "meticulously organized" woman, who has everything under control in your home/family. What a gift for Mr SA that binder full of all relevant household info is! If anything happened to you, he could just pick up that binder and know what to do.

If Dug and I were to have a binder like that, we would have to make it together. You, otoh, were able to do it all yourself. Mr SA is very lucky!
You are so impressed with this notebook Jld.. makes me laugh!! It is a good idea for couples.. just in case..

Speaking of ADD/ ADHD ... We have good friends where the husband has some "spectrum" issues....he's takes Adderall ...so I have some idea of what we're speaking about, having seen & listened to his wife 1st hand, how it can affect a marriage...

Yes....she wants to pull her hair out some days... he struggled holding down a job in their early years.. he'd get let go for this reason or that....but this got better... he's on a great run now & makes some decent money...but she's told me there are many things she could not leave to him for fear it may not get done...

But she loves him... he's surely gifted in some areas.. we ENJOY him a great deal.. he's an entertaining story teller / Conversationalist and we always have a great time, lots of laughs when we visit...

But this man NEEDS his meds.. or I doubt his wife could stay with him.
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