Maintaining Boundaries - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
Long Term Success in Marriage If you've been married 10+ years and consider your marriage a success, post your success story here. Help others by talking about what works for you.

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post #61 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 10:17 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.
If your definition of 'success' is to simply be married, then you qualify. If your definition is that 'success' means you're married to someone who loves, cherishes and protects you and your marriage, then you certainly do NOT.

You need to find a religious forum that advocates staying married no matter what. Then you might get some of the answers you want.

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post #62 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 11:29 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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You've posted on many of the forums on TAM in the time you've been here and have gotten the same advice each time. It just isn't what you want to hear. Have you tried some of the other forums that are out there? I can't think of the names right now but they are occasionally recommended to posters who don't find what they are looking for on TAM.
methinks it's his wife that has been speaking to us these last several days.

were getting her shots.............who knows where the MAJ is..............
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post #63 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 07:34 PM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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methinks it's his wife that has been speaking to us these last several days.

were getting her shots.............who knows where the MAJ is..............
That's sort of like calling him a troll, no?

No one knows, but on an open forum it seems like the benefit of the doubt should be given if it can't be proved otherwise.

MAJ, deep down in your heart of hearts you know the truth. You just aren't ready to accept it yet. It is easy for us to sit here behind our screens and tell you WTF is the matter with you, why aren't you divorcing her yesterday? But you are the one walking around in your shoes and living your life. It ain't so easy when emotions are involved. In fact it's damn hard. So I can understand.

I personally believe that most of the advice you were given here is probably accurate, and I think you believe it too. But I have been in your shoes - wanting to make it work so badly that it's just too hard to let go. Until it becomes too hard to stay. You are the only person who can get to that point - who can define that point for you. You are here because you want affirmation of what you know deep down is probably true, but you're not ready to implement it yet. One day you may be, and I believe it does help to hear others (on the more objective side of things) reaffirm that. So I think you did get something out of your threads (and I read them).

Don't let people become a priority in your life when you're just an option in theirs.
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post #64 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 09:15 PM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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That's sort of like calling him a troll, no?

No one knows, but on an open forum it seems like the benefit of the doubt should be given if it can't be proved otherwise.

MAJ, deep down in your heart of hearts you know the truth. You just aren't ready to accept it yet. It is easy for us to sit here behind our screens and tell you WTF is the matter with you, why aren't you divorcing her yesterday? But you are the one walking around in your shoes and living your life. It ain't so easy when emotions are involved. In fact it's damn hard. So I can understand.

I personally believe that most of the advice you were given here is probably accurate, and I think you believe it too. But I have been in your shoes - wanting to make it work so badly that it's just too hard to let go. Until it becomes too hard to stay. You are the only person who can get to that point - who can define that point for you. You are here because you want affirmation of what you know deep down is probably true, but you're not ready to implement it yet. One day you may be, and I believe it does help to hear others (on the more objective side of things) reaffirm that. So I think you did get something out of your threads (and I read them).

The sad thing is this kind of thinking wanting to desperately make things work is like a Chinese finger trap. The more you try to hold on the worse it gets. If you just let go and move on in 6 months or so you life will change dramatically for the better. It is very hard to see that at first, but each day you are away the more you will realize.

The light at the end of the tunnel seem very small from deep inside, but once you get to the end there is a whole world out there of light happiness. You just have to keep moving forward.
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post #65 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 09:21 PM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

In knowing your backstory Majdeath, it's not so much about boundaries at this point, it's that your wife needs to figure out why she needs attention from nearly any man who is breathing to validate her. She doesn't sound picky...so it's not personal to you. Why you tolerate it, is your own choice at this point, but it's not about boundaries with her. It's about getting to the root cause of your wife's emptiness. If you don't get to that, there'll always be men in your marriage. And I happen to think that she is the initiator in the flirtations, etc, not the men, just a guess.

Sometimes, you fall in love with the most unexpected person, at the most unexpected time. ~ Unknown
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post #66 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 10:54 PM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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In knowing your backstory Majdeath, it's not so much about boundaries at this point, it's that your wife needs to figure out why she needs attention from nearly any man who is breathing to validate her. She doesn't sound picky...so it's not personal to you. Why you tolerate it, is your own choice at this point, but it's not about boundaries with her. It's about getting to the root cause of your wife's emptiness. If you don't get to that, there'll always be men in your marriage. And I happen to think that she is the initiator in the flirtations, etc, not the men, just a guess.
I would add only she can change this and she has to want to change (not write books). Rules, and patrolling her isn't going to change her. Finally I will add from past example she is not going to change, but you know this.
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post #67 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 02:00 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

@MAJDEATH,

I'll be honest--I don't think this is really about "boundaries" because boundaries are not rules that one spouse makes to enforce on the other spouse. Boundaries are fences that you put around yourself to decide who and what you will allow access to YOU. Boundaries are about YOU controlling YOU--not you controlling your spouse or your spouse controlling you.

So since you are not really talking about "boundaries" here but more like "Rules" to which you both agree (and even agreement can be ambiguous, because as you have seen, a spouse can agree in definition and then justify why they have to break the "agreement" or claim they didn't "understand"), let me share with you the agreement that my Dear Hubby and I have regarding friends of the opposite sex:

We agree to give 100% of our affection, loyalty and companionship ONLY TO OUR SPOUSE. There will be no affection given (in a romantic way) to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be not loyalty given to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be no companionship given to any other person, same or opposite sex.

Now before you object with something like "What about your children or relatives?" or some exclamation about being loyal to your job or church, let me say this: of course you give affection to your own children, and of course you love your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles and cousins--but that is "family" love, not romantic, intimate knowledge kind of love. Of course you are loyal to your team or company--that is not intimate loyalty. That is not what our rule is talking about! Our rule is talking about doing affectionate things with someone other than your spouse, to whom all of your intimate affection is due; it is NOT yours to give away, but theirs! Our rule is about loyalty to your spouse, your marriage, and you vows--always having your spouse's back, always standing up for them, and always considering them in all things; it is not yours to give away, but theirs! And our rule is about giving to your spouse and only to your spouse, the joy of recreation, kicking back, having fun, enjoying yourself; it is not yours to give to someone else, but theirs!

And since MAJ nothing personal, but since the dynamic of your marriage is so far from even being able to comprehend that, much less being able to enact that on a mutual level, I doubt I'll respond again...and it's not because I'm a jerk. It's because you can not and/or do not hear us.

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post #68 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 12:05 PM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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That's sort of like calling him a troll, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope Shimmers View Post

No one knows, but on an open forum it seems like the benefit of the doubt should be given if it can't be proved otherwise.

MAJ, deep down in your heart of hearts you know the truth. You just aren't ready to accept it yet. It is easy for us to sit here behind our screens and tell you WTF is the matter with you, why aren't you divorcing her yesterday? But you are the one walking around in your shoes and living your life. It ain't so easy when emotions are involved. In fact it's damn hard. So I can understand.

I personally believe that most of the advice you were given here is probably accurate, and I think you believe it too. But I have been in your shoes - wanting to make it work so badly that it's just too hard to let go. Until it becomes too hard to stay. You are the only person who can get to that point - who can define that point for you. You are here because you want affirmation of what you know deep down is probably true, but you're not ready to implement it yet. One day you may be, and I believe it does help to hear others (on the more objective side of things) reaffirm that. So I think you did get something out of your threads (and I read them).
no, not at all.

he said at the beginning of this thread that his wife has joined and may be responding.

as at least one other has pointed out, suddenly, the demeanor, and abrupt, tart, cryptic responses have been completely out of character from his previous threads which were quite soul bearing, open and sincere.
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post #69 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 02:07 PM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

I am a pro marriage type of guy. If a spouse shows true remorse after cheating, I'm all for giving R a shot. It's not easy for the BS, but if the WS is truly sorry, a genuine R can happen. The problem with Maj and his wife is that she has been secretive and deceitful after being caught. These foot rubs MAY be mostly innocent, but she purposefully has hidden them from Maj. She has gone so far as to tell the OM when he will be out of town so they can meet up. How is that conducive to R?

"You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind!" Victor Von Frankenstein
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post #70 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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Originally Posted by Affaircare View Post
@MAJDEATH,

I'll be honest--I don't think this is really about "boundaries" because boundaries are not rules that one spouse makes to enforce on the other spouse. Boundaries are fences that you put around yourself to decide who and what you will allow access to YOU. Boundaries are about YOU controlling YOU--not you controlling your spouse or your spouse controlling you.

So since you are not really talking about "boundaries" here but more like "Rules" to which you both agree (and even agreement can be ambiguous, because as you have seen, a spouse can agree in definition and then justify why they have to break the "agreement" or claim they didn't "understand"), let me share with you the agreement that my Dear Hubby and I have regarding friends of the opposite sex:

We agree to give 100% of our affection, loyalty and companionship ONLY TO OUR SPOUSE. There will be no affection given (in a romantic way) to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be not loyalty given to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be no companionship given to any other person, same or opposite sex.

Now before you object with something like "What about your children or relatives?" or some exclamation about being loyal to your job or church, let me say this: of course you give affection to your own children, and of course you love your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles and cousins--but that is "family" love, not romantic, intimate knowledge kind of love. Of course you are loyal to your team or company--that is not intimate loyalty. That is not what our rule is talking about! Our rule is talking about doing affectionate things with someone other than your spouse, to whom all of your intimate affection is due; it is NOT yours to give away, but theirs! Our rule is about loyalty to your spouse, your marriage, and you vows--always having your spouse's back, always standing up for them, and always considering them in all things; it is not yours to give away, but theirs! And our rule is about giving to your spouse and only to your spouse, the joy of recreation, kicking back, having fun, enjoying yourself; it is not yours to give to someone else, but theirs!

And since MAJ nothing personal, but since the dynamic of your marriage is so far from even being able to comprehend that, much less being able to enact that on a mutual level, I doubt I'll respond again...and it's not because I'm a jerk. It's because you can not and/or do not hear us.
That's the part that I am struggling with the most in my counseling sessions. For the longest time she had my back. We went thru an incredibly intense 3-year period (related to a workplace issue) where she was the rock who really held us together thru an incredibly difficult time. And I really believe a lessor woman would have given up and said "this is too hard, I'm out". I give her a lot of credit for sticking with me during that period, so I can't for the life of me understand why private foot rubs were so important at this point in her life?


The success of marriage comes not in finding the “right” person, but in the ability of both partners to adjust to the real person they inevitably realize they married - John Fischer
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post #71 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.

Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?

The success of marriage comes not in finding the “right” person, but in the ability of both partners to adjust to the real person they inevitably realize they married - John Fischer
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post #72 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 03:59 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

Maj, giving her the benefit of the doubt for a moment, if she is the age she is and she truly thinks that a man can be her friend, exchange physical touch (footrubs) without crossing boundaries, she is very emotionally immature.

Men don't give a cr@p about hearing stories about other men, or offering women emotional support around other men (read: their husband's... I.e. you) when they want to bang them.

My feeling is she knows this and is going into weird "I didn't know what I was doing... Honest" damage control to keep you guessing. And it's working.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

~ Abraham Maslow
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post #73 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 04:37 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.
What a crock of manure.

All cheaters try desperately to paint themselves in the most innocent light that they can. That's nothing new, nor is it in any way unique. She's just doing what they all do. Her ridiculous story about wanting her 'friend' to agree with her that her marriage the most important thing in her world is actually laughable. She'd already SHOWN him how 'important' her marriage is, playing footsies with this mouth breather on your couch while you weren't home.
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post #74 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 06:19 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

Major,

If you weren't the poster, and you were responding like the rest of us, would you believe it? Would you say those words rang with truth or falsehood?
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post #75 of 98 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 07:45 AM
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Re: Maintaining Boundaries

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.
Oh man. Reading your posts is like watching a train that's just about to wreak. I can't stop reading no matter how cringe/trigger/rage inducing the issue at hand with you is.

Come on.Do you on any level even truly believe this?

To quote Vincent Vega "you're saying a foot massage don't mean nothing, and I'm saying it does. Now, look, I've given a million ladies a million foot massages, and they all meant something. We act like they don't, but they do, and that's what's so cool about them. There's a sensuous thing going on where you don't talk about it, but you know it, she knows it, Marsellus knew it, and Antoine should have better known better. I mean, that's his wife, man. He ain't gonna have no sense of humor about that ****. You know what I'm saying?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?
O

M

G

STOP


You are so desperate to save this, I don't have the correct words to describe your union with your wife, that you will turn a blind eye to everything.

You DO make excuses for everything.

At what point do you look at yourself in the mirror and ask

"Why do I allow her to treat me like this"

When is enough actually enough for you?

Question - Are you happy?

If YES - You have chosen wisely!
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