Meaning of Marriage - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 06:28 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

Interesting issues.

I think a major problem is that people may get married with very different ideas of what "marriage" means. There are many definitions that can work, but if expectations are different, there are likely to be problems.

Is marriage a sort of contract where effort is exchanged? Is a promise to do ones best for the other no matter what? Is it based on practical concerns or irrational love? What is the role of family and children?

I agree with others that Hollywood romance has done a terrible disservice to people by presenting an unrealistic view of relationships.

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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 06:31 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

As long as you both shall love... how that holds is up to the participants.

Nothing more, nothing less...
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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 07:22 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Originally Posted by BioFury View Post
Ynot: "The fact that he already said yes is irrelevant... Neither of you deserve a life time of regrets because of a vow you made years ago under circumstances that have changed."

At what point do we decide that our lives would be better spent with other people?

No, the fairytale recipe is sound. Either one or both of you were rotten eggs, and thus messed up the cake. Find/become a good egg, and things will work out for you
Nice cut-n-paste! Now lets read the whole quote:
"What if the greatest it can be is a life time of unmet needs and growing resentment? What if the greatest it can be means a life of emptiness?
The fact that he already said yes is irrelevant. The fact that he is questioning his decision is relevant.
OP, I think this is something that you and your wife need to discuss. She may actually be feeling the same way. The two of you could decide to mutually and civilly end the marriage. From the sounds of it she is as unhappy as you are. Neither of you deserve a life time of regrets because of a vow you made years ago under circumstance that have changed. Be true to yourself regardless."
So according to bio-fury some decision you made years ago, at a different point in your life, when you had different wants and needs should control the rest of your life? Let me guess - you are one of those people who think people don't change?
You might also notice, or probably not, in your effort to avoid a real discussion about this OP, that I never told anyone to cheat or lie, I suggested he speak to his wife because neither of them deserve a lifetime of regrets.

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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 07:28 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Yep pretty much exceptions. I think there is a better chance marriage will go away. Most people think open marriage doesn't make sense, from a guys point of view why subject your financial well being, just F-ck around.
Wow, you have a real imagination there. Who has talked about an "open marriage"? Besides you, that is? If these are exceptions, why do they continue to gain popularity as a choice to be made? It is a fact that young people are waiting longer and longer to get married. It is a fact that more are foregoing marriage altogether. it is a fact that divorces among older people (aging baby boomers) are exploding. Yes, divorce among younger people has leveled off, mainly because #1 fewer are getting married #2 they are waiting til later in their lives and #3 many are just choosing to live together rather than submit to the romanticized fairy tale you are clinging to. These are facts, not exceptions.

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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 07:47 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post

I agree with others that Hollywood romance has done a terrible disservice to people by presenting an unrealistic view of relationships.
Does it make me Crazy to actually love & thoroughly enjoy the Romances Hollywood puts out.. but be sickened by the real lives of those making the movies, what we read in the pages of People & endless magazines standing in the check out lines..those, to me, are the bad examples...

I don't know.. I have a good marriage.. I love being married, we both wanted family, to live in the country.... I am a Romantic. I married a Romantic... not in the sense of "flowers, gifts, & jewelry".. but this write up captures it...

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Being Romantic means being sensitive, affectionate, and spritually-inclined.

The paramount quality of a romantic person is sensitivity. The romantic is a person who FEELS deeply, and attaches a lot of meaning to those feelings. Because of this, the romantic will express him/herself through such things as affection, verbal declarations of love, and meaningful gestures, all of which come from deep within.

A romantic will perceive a richness of detail that is lost on the non-romantic type -- such things as the fleeting expression of a lover’s eyes. In a split second, the romantic has perceived a hint of sadness there, which the lover quickly tries to hide, by pretending it was never there to begin with. But the romantic saw it, and was touched by it....This takes sensitivity, depth of feeling, as well as spiritual awareness.

Romantic people LOVE to give love! Romantic types simply want to make sure that their partners feel loved, special, and appreciated. No gesture is either too big or small to show how they feel about their beloved.

Romance involves the total involvement with another person’s inner world -- their soul, their intellect, their heart. One gives all of oneself to this person, and being romantic certainly expresses how completely one is committed to this person, to being in a relationship with them.

To sum up, being a romantic entails being sensitive, expressive, and spiritual, not only in regards to one’s beloved, but in one’s life as well, through saturating it with great beauty
.
And Yes.. I wanted a man who "gets that".. feels this way about me too..We dated a # if yrs before we married...I felt it then.. as I still feel it today from him... 34 yrs later... it takes the mundane of our lives & lifts us up... we are very thankful for what we share... I still long for my husband's touch...

I can always tell by how someone talks ABOUT MARRIAGE, what it means to them.. if it's "just a piece of paper", it's irrelevant today "who needs it".... it's very telling to who we'd be compatible with..

Then too often people change after the vows.. Love & trusting another... there is always RISK here.....what can we offer but ourselves to do all we can to enhance the passion in our marriages.. to keep the flames burning at home.. but it will always take 2...we need each other...if one of us becomes selfish, cold, rejecting, spitting on the needs of the other .. it's going to shake the foundation..




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Originally Posted by DosXXMan View Post
Ynot: I completely agree on the concept of "soul mate". What an amazingly heavy burden for everyone to carry. And very limiting and asphyxiating for both spouses. A spouse should be a just a fellow traveler in this crazy travel through life. A friend ready to let us fly and explore and find ourselves. And we should do the same for them. No ownership or absurd expectations to "make us happy". And the blame that comes when spouses somehow fail to deliver such happiness. An easy way out from taking responsibility for our own lives. Worse, the expectation of the fairy tale many times does end up killing the beauty and pleasures we can find in our daily lives.
....On the whole Soul mate thing...this was a post I did years ago..

Quote:
For many yrs I used the term Soulmate in talking about my husband.....cause I always felt I found mine....(He still uses it in regards to me- I'm not going to yell at him for this)....

But one night yrs ago now.... I caught this Christian Marriage Counselor on TV ....talking about this concept/belief..... and how it has the potential to HURT many marriages...

Because when going through a really rough patch, one may start to QUESTION if who they are with = their "Soul mate"....or they missed him or her.... they entertain that their soul mate is still out there waiting to be found... tempted to chase some Romantic rainbow - dancing in their heads .....



Instead of sticking it out & working together for a reconciliation / that hard work needed to find peace & Harmony within the marriage, they are tempted to look outside of it.

So in this way, the "soul mate" belief can lead one down a wrong path ...

The Beef of that program was...a Marriage is what we put into it, where 2 people give & share lovingly & care about one another...this can be found with MANY people around the globe, also if we loose a spouse, we can find it with another ....compatibility is helpful here....but there is no bonafide soul mate for each.

I really enjoyed that program & seen much WISDOM in it...

Yet still...me & mine still refer to each other like this on occasion... We're not perfect..no one is or ever will be -fights will come....yet we can laugh & still find great love in those very "imperfections" ...my attempt at explaining this HERE >>
The "Perfect Marriage" does not exist- but Beauty can be found in our Imperfections
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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 07:51 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
Wow, you have a real imagination there. Who has talked about an "open marriage"? Besides you, that is? If these are exceptions, why do they continue to gain popularity as a choice to be made? It is a fact that young people are waiting longer and longer to get married. It is a fact that more are foregoing marriage altogether. it is a fact that divorces among older people (aging baby boomers) are exploding. Yes, divorce among younger people has leveled off, mainly because #1 fewer are getting married #2 they are waiting til later in their lives and #3 many are just choosing to live together rather than submit to the romanticized fairy tale you are clinging to. These are facts, not exceptions.
OK whatever. Marriage is alive and well, and always will be. I believe for most humans natural state is monogamy, no matter what the Zeitgeist is. Most people strive for one partner to love them, yes they may be waiting longer which makes sense, hell I got married older, and they are not settling, also a good thing, but most if you ask most of them want to be married to one partner for their whole lives.
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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 07:57 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
Does it make me Crazy to actually love & thoroughly enjoy the Romances Hollywood puts out.
Hey I like it too. But if you have a good marriage you know that that is only part of what makes it work, and for the most part one of the more easier ones if both of you like that kind of thing. The hard part is dealing with their moods and cleaning their dirty underwear. To me that is love, true love is cleaning the toilets with your SO hairs on them. See I told you I was romantic .
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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 08:56 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

"Because when going through a really rough patch, one may start to QUESTION if who they are with = their "Soul mate"....or they missed him or her.... they entertain that their soul mate is still out there waiting to be found... tempted to chase some Romantic rainbow - dancing in their heads .....

Instead of sticking it out & working together for a reconciliation / that hard work needed to find peace & Harmony within the marriage, they are tempted to look outside of it.

So in this way, the "soul mate" belief can lead one down a wrong path ..."

This^^^^^^ is what I met about the idea of the "soul mate". I think it can also cause marriages to happen that shouldn't. Such as, when individuals conflate the high of sexual gratification with the idea of having found a soulmate. Once that sexual high wears off or one becomes acclimated to it, the mistake becomes very apparent. And there is just as much danger in the opposite direction, where the partners hold off sexually, finding compatibility in other non-sexual ways. This presents its own danger because what if they later find they are not sexually compatible. Either way the petals often fall off the bloom of a "soul mate". The end result being the above.

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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 09:45 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
Nice cut-n-paste! Now lets read the whole quote:
"What if the greatest it can be is a life time of unmet needs and growing resentment? What if the greatest it can be means a life of emptiness?
The fact that he already said yes is irrelevant. The fact that he is questioning his decision is relevant.
OP, I think this is something that you and your wife need to discuss. She may actually be feeling the same way. The two of you could decide to mutually and civilly end the marriage. From the sounds of it she is as unhappy as you are. Neither of you deserve a life time of regrets because of a vow you made years ago under circumstance that have changed. Be true to yourself regardless."
So according to bio-fury some decision you made years ago, at a different point in your life, when you had different wants and needs should control the rest of your life? Let me guess - you are one of those people who think people don't change?
You might also notice, or probably not, in your effort to avoid a real discussion about this OP, that I never told anyone to cheat or lie, I suggested he speak to his wife because neither of them deserve a lifetime of regrets.
You said exactly what I said that you said. The rest of your statement merely seeks to justify the suggested dishonesty, by stating that they don't deserve to be miserable.

"It's ok to lie, so long as it makes you happier."

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I don't trust words. I even question actions. But I hardly ever doubt patterns.
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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 10:31 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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You said exactly what I said that you said. The rest of your statement merely seeks to justify the suggested dishonesty, by stating that they don't deserve to be miserable.

"It's ok to lie, so long as it makes you happier."
Who said anything about lying to anybody to make them selves happier? I told him to talk to his wife. When you talk to someone do you lie to them? I think your posts are exposing a lot more about how you think than you may intend. What dishonesty is there in talking to his wife? Boy you need to take care of your issues before making any up about me.


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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 10:44 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Who said anything about lying to anybody to make them selves happier? I told him to talk to his wife. When you talk to someone do you lie to them? I think your posts are exposing a lot more about how you think than you may intend. What dishonesty is there in talking to his wife? Boy you need to take care of your issues before making any up about me.
You did suggest that he talk to his wife. But what you also suggested was that they could both agree to end the marriage on agreeable terms. And that there was no need for them to keep the oath they made to each other and to God, if that oath was no longer convenient. You were suggesting that they make themselves into liars.

But we're kinda derailing the thread, so lets bring this to a close. My original point, was that the institution of marriage is perfectly fine. It's the people who are participating in it, who are lacking.

As a mother, I eat stress for breakfast. - Megan Conley

I don't trust words. I even question actions. But I hardly ever doubt patterns.
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 10:55 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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You did suggest that he talk to his wife. But what you also suggested was that they could both agree to end the marriage on agreeable terms. And that there was no need for them to keep the oath they made to each other and to God, if that oath was no longer convenient. You were suggesting that they make themselves into liars.

But we're kinda derailing the thread, so lets bring this to a close. My original point, was that the institution of marriage is perfectly fine. It's the people who are participating in it, who are lacking.
How is talking to his wife and them mutually agreeing to end a marriage lying? Are you referring to the oath? That was an oath they made to each other. The oath is not to make the other one unhappy for the rest of their life, it is actually one about enhancing the the others life. If it enhances the others life to be free of you and their obligation to you - how is that lying? In fact it is being as truthful and honest with your SO as you can possibly be. If anything you are honoring the oath more by being honest and ending something that isn't working for both of you, than you are by hanging onto an unhappy marriage because you made a promise years ago. If you think any one else owes you their happiness, I don't know what to tell you.

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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 11:20 PM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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How is talking to his wife and them mutually agreeing to end a marriage lying? Are you referring to the oath? That was an oath they made to each other. The oath is not to make the other one unhappy for the rest of their life, it is actually one about enhancing the the others life. If it enhances the others life to be free of you and their obligation to you - how is that lying? In fact it is being as truthful and honest with your SO as you can possibly be. If anything you are honoring the oath more by being honest and ending something that isn't working for both of you, than you are by hanging onto an unhappy marriage because you made a promise years ago. If you think any one else owes you their happiness, I don't know what to tell you.
You are correct, if they had merely made a covenant with each other, then they could mutually release each other from it. But, they chose to not only make the oath to each other, but to God as well. And a spouse doesn't have the authority to release you from an oath made to God.

Besides the fact that the union of marriage itself is under God's jurisdiction, and He has dictated that it is a permanent union. So even if a couple did not make an oath to Him during their ceremony, it wouldn't change anything. It's His institution, it's His world, and He sets the terms.

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I don't trust words. I even question actions. But I hardly ever doubt patterns.
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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 07:22 AM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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You are correct, if they had merely made a covenant with each other, then they could mutually release each other from it. But, they chose to not only make the oath to each other, but to God as well. And a spouse doesn't have the authority to release you from an oath made to God.

Besides the fact that the union of marriage itself is under God's jurisdiction, and He has dictated that it is a permanent union. So even if a couple did not make an oath to Him during their ceremony, it wouldn't change anything. It's His institution, it's His world, and He sets the terms.
I am sure that will come as a surprise to the majority of the world, the majority of which do not believe in your particular world or follow your particular moral standards.

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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 08:11 AM
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Re: Meaning of Marriage

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Provided he hasn't changed his opinion, Ynot doesn't believe people are obligated to keep their word if they don't feel like it anymore. So a contract would never be static in the case of people like him.
Contracts are subject to interpretation and can be renegotiated. They are not necessarily static - or simple. Each state has their own version of the definition of marriage, especially when it comes to the financial details of ownership, money, and property. Contracts are frequently broken, or terminated for cause - marriage is no different. The state and society may impose penalties or compensation when that occurs, depending on the circumstances - this is sometimes true even if you do not have a state-recognized marriage.

Quote:
But, they chose to not only make the oath to each other, but to God as well. And a spouse doesn't have the authority to release you from an oath made to God.
Yes, if you happen to believe is God, or choose to apply a religious definition to marriage, then that factor may carry weight in your decisions. Many people don't take the concept of God seriously, even if they marry in a church - it's tradition, whether or not they respect it. For my own marriage, we rejected any religious component, as we are both atheists. Our commitment is only to each other, and aside from however we choose to define our marriage, only the state has any say, and that really only comes into play if we decide to terminate our contract legally.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.

Last edited by Married but Happy; 11-30-2016 at 08:18 AM.
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