Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote? - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-07-2016, 02:54 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
It seems that TAM is somewhat biased towards believing this quote at face value. I was curious if there is current research to back up this so-called "proven-fact" that is often expunged by Internet tough guys; the same guys who believe that you should dump her at the first sign of infidelity, if you are a "real" man.
I wonder if these guys have real marriages, real children, have real mortgages, and live in the real world of real human nature?

Can trust be rebuilt? Do we underestimate the ability to change? Are some people more likely to cheat again than others? I believe before a cheater can even consider changing their ways, they must work thru the issues that drove them to stray, which may take time thru IC.

I did find some current studies that showed about 70% of those who cheated in the past were now faithful in their current relationship. The study indicated that the 30% (repeat cheaters) shared some common dynamics, to include:
1 Genetic disposition (a certain gene is not present, and almost all shared the same lacking gene with a parent, who also cheated)
2 Reported to have "fallen out of love"
3 High level of self attractiveness
4 High level of sex drive
5 In men, larger sized testicles were more likely to be repeat offenders, perhaps greater T levels
I don't rule anyone out. If we judge by statistics, then we'd condemn all to 100% or 0%. I consider stats to increase my success rates and ensure my approach is sound. Beyond that, we have stupifyingly straightforward processes to guide individuals to positive outcomes. We determine our future by processes. Thus, we work with cognitions and activity to mold the conscious and unconscious.

Done right, anyone can change. This tends to require involvement from the betrayed. It can and often works, leaving even better relationships in place. More than 95% of the time, the betrayed has some blame for the disconnection.

It comes down to there being residual love and having a positive past as proof that there can be a future.



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post #32 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-07-2016, 03:32 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
It seems that TAM is somewhat biased towards believing this quote at face value. I was curious if there is current research to back up this so-called "proven-fact" that is often expunged by Internet tough guys; the same guys who believe that you should dump her at the first sign of infidelity, if you are a "real" man.
I wonder if these guys have real marriages, real children, have real mortgages, and live in the real world of real human nature?

Can trust be rebuilt? Do we underestimate the ability to change? Are some people more likely to cheat again than others? I believe before a cheater can even consider changing their ways, they must work thru the issues that drove them to stray, which may take time thru IC.

I did find some current studies that showed about 70% of those who cheated in the past were now faithful in their current relationship. The study indicated that the 30% (repeat cheaters) shared some common dynamics, to include:
1 Genetic disposition (a certain gene is not present, and almost all shared the same lacking gene with a parent, who also cheated)
2 Reported to have "fallen out of love"
3 High level of self attractiveness
4 High level of sex drive
5 In men, larger sized testicles were more likely to be repeat offenders, perhaps greater T levels
Since you clearly need something to occupy your time and mind, instead of wondering these things, study a few university level statistic papers or pop over to "Khan Academy" website and study there.
With a better understanding of how statistics works you will see how the groupings work and how the statistics are _actually_ applied - and thus how meaningless most such "results" are.

eg (4) is actually a symptom of cheating, not a cause. While (2) is completed self-selected, and if asked many of those giving that answer would have some seriously problematic definitions of "love".

Indeed, a simple small sample of self-selected answers taken from this thread highlights the majority of causal factors. ie a "Purposeful" sample selection method, drawn from a selection of people who have experience in the matter, and whom interact with large numbers of similar qualified people, with an interest in gathering data in that area.

Things which contribute:
(1) Self-orientation about desires (can be in any of the relationship partners. e.g. if ones' partner is obsessive about their work, it skyrockets the chance one of the partners will cheat. In TAM that's the HNHN factor
(2) Morals. A person who is strict, and rigid about their own adult moral patterns, is less likely to cheat.
(3) Communication without dependence. Someone is willing and able to _honestly_ communicate their internal reality is less likely to suffer from difficulties in (1) and (2).

I'd put the ratio of importance (eg if you're doing a regression and weighting the factors) as 80% (1), 16% (2), 3% (3). Basically, and I think cheaters will confirm, that pretty much "they were just being inconsiderate *******s"

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post #33 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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In my situation, there is a 6th category: "cheating with permission". I stupidly told her if she needed to deal with loneliness while I was deployed, I would be OK with her having a BF. I should have told her to buy a dog.
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post #34 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 11:44 AM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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post #35 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 11:51 AM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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In my situation, there is a 6th category: "cheating with permission". I stupidly told her if she needed to deal with loneliness while I was deployed, I would be OK with her having a BF. I should have told her to buy a dog.
So, are you deployed? Because it sounds like there was a condition attached to your permission.

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post #36 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 11:52 AM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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post #37 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 11:58 AM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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In my situation, there is a 6th category: "cheating with permission". I stupidly told her if she needed to deal with loneliness while I was deployed, I would be OK with her having a BF. I should have told her to buy a dog.
You cheated too, IIRC. So, no, if that's the real story then why would that count. And why would you even keep bringing it up if you both did the same thing. Let it go.

However, she wasn't "cheating with permission" in the latest situation. That's different.
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post #38 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 12:01 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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In my situation, there is a 6th category: "cheating with permission". I stupidly told her if she needed to deal with loneliness while I was deployed, I would be OK with her having a BF. I should have told her to buy a dog.
DH was a regional and over the road truck driver for years before he got a local job. I was home alone with 3 young children for days on end. When H could come home, he was often only able to be here here for a day or two, most of which he used to catch up on sleep, and then he'd be gone again. Thank God for cell phones and hands free devices or we'd never have survived it.

I got myself an American Bulldog pup. And then a Pit Bull. Then I added a Basset Hound. I got the 2nd Pit Bull pup a year after the Basset. Husbands being away from home saying "Get a dog if you're lonely!" is how at least 60% of Crazy Dog Ladies are made.

I might have mentioned it in another thread of yours or elsewhere on the internet, but when I was having affair after affair in my first marriage I honestly did think it didn't bother exH much because he stayed. If he was that damn upset about it, he'd have left. Hell, he even had affairs of his own. I figured, since he stayed, that his occasional complaints, emotional outbursts, etc. were just venting. He certainly never DID anything, so he must be fine, right?

Your wife has been routinely cheating on you for 20+ years and you've stayed. You even told her it was ok at one point. Of course she's going to keep on keepin on with it. You clearly aren't going anywhere. It's quite possible she thinks as I once did. "It must not be THAT big of a deal, he's still here." and nothing you SAY will EVER change that perception. Divorce papers, a real physical separation to different residences and her having to live and pay bills alone MIGHT, but old habits are hard to break.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #39 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 01:18 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

I do not think that "Once a cheater, always a cheater" is valid. Like other have said, it is likely easier for them to cheat again, but obviously anyone can change their tune. However, I feel like the following statement is always true (besides the literal meaning of it).

"Once cheated on, always cheated on."

They may never cheat again, but most of the time it doesn't matter. You were cheated on by them. Even if they aren't a cheater anymore. I don't know how anyone can continue to stay with someone after cheating occurs and have a happy and healthy life.
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post #40 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 08:03 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

It's probably accurate enough that it works well as a general rule.

Still, there will be exceptions.

Your WW doesn't appear to be one of them, though.


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post #41 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 08:36 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

Why do you post this stuff in the "long term success in marriage" forum? Even if people stay married till death, if cheating was involved it is not/was not a successful long term marriage. It was co dependancy and f.uckupendness holding people together.
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post #42 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-11-2016, 06:20 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

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In my situation, there is a 6th category: "cheating with permission". I stupidly told her if she needed to deal with loneliness while I was deployed, I would be OK with her having a BF. I should have told her to buy a dog.
Sir, in a real adult relationship she would have been mortified at your suggestion. She would have not only declined to have a BF but would most probably have initiated a conversation with you in an effort to understand your comment. She may have also been somewhat insulted that you would think so little of her as to assume that she could be unfaithful under any conditions.

Instead, the childlike mind in her head said "oh goodie a new BF (giggle, giggle)". The ramifications of such an act supersede her ability to grasp. Regrettable.

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post #43 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-11-2016, 07:39 PM
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Re: Is "Once a cheater, always a Cheater" an accurate quote?

Maj's telling her that he would be ok with her having a boyfriend told her that he didn't care enough about her to keep her to himself.
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post #44 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Why do you post this stuff in the "long term success in marriage" forum? Even if people stay married till death, if cheating was involved it is not/was not a successful long term marriage. It was co dependancy and f.uckupendness holding people together.
I have a feeling that cheating happens more than we care to admit in long term marriages. It doesn't mean that it wasn't worth it to stay married and realize the positive benefits.

The question is, is there a greater chance to repeat compared to the first time? It might actually be less if the WS got caught or confessed, due to increased awareness/oversight by the BS.

Last edited by MAJDEATH; 12-12-2016 at 11:49 AM.
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post #45 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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In my situation, there is a 6th category: "cheating with permission". I stupidly told her if she needed to deal with loneliness while I was deployed, I would be OK with her having a BF. I should have told her to buy a dog.
Sir, in a real adult relationship she would have been mortified at your suggestion. She would have not only declined to have a BF but would most probably have initiated a conversation with you in an effort to understand your comment. She may have also been somewhat insulted that you would think so little of her as to assume that she could be unfaithful under any conditions.

Instead, the childlike mind in her head said "oh goodie a new BF (giggle, giggle)". The ramifications of such an act supersede her ability to grasp. Regrettable.
Try telling your spouse that you have chosen a career field where you have to be gone for months or years at a time. Is it a reasonable expectation to assume they won't stray? Especially if they suffer from a condition that is exasperated by abandonment (which we found out later).
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