"Idealism" in Marriage... always bad? - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:07 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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Thanks for your honesty.
What makes you laugh?


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #32 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:08 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

I am romantic but do not ascribe to the concept of soul mate.

I believe in hard work and effort combined with initial attraction and compatibility.

My approach to relationships isn't romantic at all but my results are extremely passionate and filled with 🌹 romance.

I could successfully bed and wed any number of women and have, not identical, but similar levels of success as with my 25 years with Mrs. C.

She is unique and no one can take her place but I could be successful with another unique woman as well.

At this stage though, if she passed, I honestly don't know if I would pursue another.

She has been the great love of my life and I don't know that I have it in me to start again.

I do believe in God however and He could have different ideas about me. He often does! LOL!
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post #33 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:10 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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What makes you laugh?
That you admitted that you, personally, didn't know what a soulmate was supposed to be; even though your husband thinks that you are his.

You were genuine; you didn't try to come up with some hooey on-the-spot about what you thought a soulmate was.

It just struck me as cute is all.
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post #34 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:12 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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That you admitted that you, personally, didn't know what a soulmate was supposed to be; even though your husband thinks that you are his.

You were genuine; you didn't try to come up with some hooey on-the-spot about what you thought a soulmate was.

It just struck me as cute is all.
Oh, okay. I thought maybe it was something bad.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #35 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:17 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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I could successfully bed and wed any number of women and have, not identical, but similar levels of success as with my 25 years with Mrs. C.

She is unique and no one can take her place but I could be successful with another unique woman as well.

At this stage though, if she passed, I honestly don't know if I would pursue another.

She has been the great love of my life and I don't know that I have it in me to start again.

I do believe in God however and He could have different ideas about me. He often does! LOL!


That's a big part of it. Admitting that we are replaceable; and that our spouses are too. Human love isn't that strong or ideal.

But, at the same time, you are now so strongly bonded to Mrs. C; that the thought of losing her is painful in the extreme.

From the Christian sense, marriage only lasts in this lifetime. Though I think Mormons believe differently.

I love my husband. But I don't want to be bonded to him for evermore in eternity. It won't be necessary. I sure hope to see him around; but there won't be the insecurities and vulnerabilities that we have here in this life, which make having a permanent mate so desirable.
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post #36 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:55 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

I just do not place anyone on a pedestal. What works is some idealized version but the ability to detach and analyze. As a teen, I let all the hormones do the talking. I had two sisters pursue me and I picked the hotter one even though the other was more compatible, more sane. The hotter one was a recovering cocaine addict since 15 and let people have sex with her for drugs. All I could see was her beauty and not the inner scars and the lack of common interest. I placed her on a pedestal in the beginning and let her hurt me more than I should have. She kept pushing and then pulling me like a leashed pet depending on her whims. Sure, she cared about me, but not enough to treat me well. Luckily she was he one that let me go eventually when she moved at 18 because I could of have not.

Thinking about it, I was in love with her attractiveness, that high knowing she was the one that pursued me and gave me that initial ego boost, and sex. It was a superficial relationship without any real connection. We did not talk, we did not know each other well since we both had our guards up.

With my current partner, with communication being the number one priority, she can read me sometimes and knows my flaws. Recently my mother passed away and I was detaching unknowingly and she knows me on a deep, emotional level to know I was not handling it well and call me out on my behavior. She showed up, not leaving me alone and she grieved with me. It makes me love her even more, and yet, we will not place each other on a pedestal. If I kept neglecting her, I could of lost that because with enough pain, it would be healthy to give up and in healthy state of mind, I would want her to give up on me if it is ever detrimental towards her. She supported me, and stood by me, but I had to make the choice to help myself and accept that support. Otherwise, her actions would have been fruitless.

Some level of idealism but not lose the reality of what is real. Perception is always faulty and looking at the whole picture, of past behavior is an indication of future outcomes. Seeing whether we can learn from that or not. Unfortunately, I did not learn until my early twenties. Got hooked again by a hot cheerleader that was abused by her parents, sexually assaulted, abused by her ex-bf. Attraction only gets the foot in the door and getting to actually know the person and the constant work it takes to maintain that level of connection. It is easy in the beginning due to that initial honeymoon phase.

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post #37 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:10 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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That's a big part of it. Admitting that we are replaceable; and that our spouses are too. Human love isn't that strong or ideal.

But, at the same time, you are now so strongly bonded to Mrs. C; that the thought of losing her is painful in the extreme.

From the Christian sense, marriage only lasts in this lifetime. Though I think Mormons believe differently.

I love my husband. But I don't want to be bonded to him for evermore in eternity. It won't be necessary. I sure hope to see him around; but there won't be the insecurities and vulnerabilities that we have here in this life, which make having a permanent mate so desirable.
Ok.

I'm not trying to make an anonymous internet move on you here but I am in love with your mind!

I might have to avoid your posts for a while as I would probably develop a crush! LOL!

I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and am amazed to hear expressions similar to my own!

Nuff said!
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post #38 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:23 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

@ConanHub


That's the beauty of these forums. You don't even have to know the gender of the person; you get to interact with others' minds.
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post #39 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:32 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

This is a great thread!
Idealism with regards to the relationship itself poses stumbling blocks for myself. Idealism towards one partner, for me, is simply accepting others as they are without a lot of judgment.
Easy to do that when one has solid boundaries and knows what needs they should "fulfill " for themselves and which needs can only be met with the opportunity of participating in a relationship (thus they are bonus!).
It's always a shift changing ever evolving dance.
Which is difficult for some, as change can be.
Idealism towards how a relationship should be....to me...is causing your own suffering, if you focus on it.
It's a good idea to have some basic expectations.
And know what your boundaries are.
Infidelity, spending habits, parenting, co habitation habits, etc are basics that could make or break and need solid boundaries.
Things can be measured. It was done or not. Yes or no. Pass or fail.
The rest...emotional opinion and out of your control.
Yes, we have expectations and idealism about these too.
But very little control. It's personal. For a good reason.
We aren't meant to.

If someone shows you they love you (in the manner they know) but you refuse to accept it or can't see it because of your idealism, it doesn't change the fact that it happened.
Deep stuff, never becomes an issue if expectations and love languages match, for a period of time.
But if we idealize or accept our partner, you get through the morphing of the other.
Or not.


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post #40 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:40 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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I think myself & you would find some disagreement on this...

You likely admire this Ayn Rand character also.. I have watched some of her videos on You tube and cringe.. though ..I don't fully GET her message... that Speaker of the House Paul Ryan is an admirer .... I can not express the disdain I feel for that man and his politics....but that's another thread...

I am admittedly MORE SELFISH over my husband.. If I don't watch myself... I can be bossy...more take charge.. thankfully we think so much alike on issues, this has never been a contention with us... but but but...

I personally tend to LOOK UP to those are LESS SELFISH ... because it's a quality that I do admire.. even if I kinda suck at it myself sometimes..

We bought chocolate bars out the other night.. I wanted his -after I ate mine.. I'm selfish.. he let me eat it... but I shouldn't have asked.. stupid example.. he'd NEVER do that to me or one of the kids.. he's a good example of someone who seems to get Joy for doing for other people.. That to me is a GOOD person..

I like GOOD people.. I don't admire selfishness in others... I feel it is the ruination of many relationships, friendships, causes problems in the work place, and on it goes.. Every situation is different though..

There IS surely a PLACE for "doing for ourselves" for our own happiness.. of course. I've never personally been the "unconditional lover" type either.
And once again you confuse selfishness for greed. Were you greedy, you would be bossy. But you weren't, you were selfish. You understand that in the long term keeping you H in your life outweighs whatever benefit might come from being bossy and driving him out of your life. The same with the chocolate bars. You have decided that it is in your best interest (ie selfish) to have this man in your life and act appropriately. That is not selflessness. Selflessness would be you going without the chocolate bar so that he can have it all. Selflessness is being a dishrag and doing what you are told.
The problem is that our definition of selfish has been dumb downed by the societal exaltation of selflessness.
It is the same issue that many take into a marriage, whereby they imagine by being selfless they are helping the marriage. When in fact they are giving themselves away and undermining their half of the relationship. It is why many marriages fail. The IDEAL of selflessness, which is fact counter to the best interests of the individual, an individual that represents half of a couple.
As for Ayn Rand, the reality is that outside of Ron Paul, few politicians even begin to grasp the concepts she presents. Instead they mouth agreement with it while doing everything in their power to undermine them. Paul Ryan, lifetime politician and leading progressive of the "conservatives" being a case in point.
This conflation of terms is something progressives of both ilk prey on in their quest for more power. It is the root of most of our societal and political issues.


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post #41 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 11:47 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

@SimplyAmorous

I'm guessing that there are occasions when you let your husband have both of the candy bars----or an equivalent. Maybe you let him sleep late on his days off while you get up and start taking care of things domestically.

Things aren't always equal. You might go a longer stretch doing more of the taking.

As long as you are also able to give freely when you are able, and your spouse needs that sacrifice from you.
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post #42 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 11:50 AM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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@SimplyAmorous

I'm guessing that there are occasions when you let your husband have both of the candy bars----or an equivalent. Maybe you let him sleep late on his days off while you get up and start taking care of things domestically.

Things aren't always equal. You might go a longer stretch doing more of the taking.

As long as you are also able to give freely when you are able, and your spouse needs that sacrifice from you.
She does a ton for him. That house runs as smoothly as it does because of her--and he knows and appreciates it. Win/Win.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #43 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 02:19 PM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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My husband says we are soulmates. He says we are meant to be together.
I said the same thing in 1982😎

I know better now.
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post #44 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 05:30 PM
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Re: "Idealism" in Marriage... always bad?

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That's okay. We won't have any thought-provoking conversations here if people are offended by every last thing. There is way too much of that over in CWI already!

Maybe Dug can come on later and explain what soulmate means to him.
I do not have any data to back up what I am going to say. It is just my opinion.

I believe in destiny. I believe we are on the earth to make a difference. Neither my wife nor I are statistical randomness.

I really felt at ease when I met JLD. I felt that we must have been together in past lives.

If JLD were to die before me, would I remarry or live with another woman?

I understand talk is cheap, but I seriously doubt it. She and I have worked very hard to build what we have. I do not know how I could share the fruits of that work with anyone else.

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post #45 of 75 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
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That's okay. We won't have any thought-provoking conversations here if people are offended by every last thing. There is way too much of that over in CWI already!

Maybe Dug can come on later and explain what soulmate means to him.
I belief in karmatic obligations and the ties we create with each other. Each of those obligations needs to be repaid. So, in spending so much time with each other our ties are so entangled that we need a few lifetimes to repay them. We always say we will be together for 10 more life times. My H says that he must have been pretty bad in the last one, because this one is about me.

Is that a soul mate? I don't know. We like our belief. It allows us to treat each other with respect and kindness. Even if some times we want to kill each other.

I do not have any data to back up what I am going to say. It is just my opinion.

I believe in destiny. I believe we are on the earth to make a difference. Neither my wife nor I are statistical randomness.

I really felt at ease when I met JLD. I felt that we must have been together in past lives.

If JLD were to die before me, would I remarry or live with another woman?

I understand talk is cheap, but I seriously doubt it. She and I have worked very hard to build what we have. I do not know how I could share the fruits of that work with anyone else.
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