Long Term Success in MarriageIf you've been married 10+ years and consider your marriage a success, post your success story here. Help others by talking about what works for you.
Location: On a clear day, I can see Mt. Rainier ... but you can't count on the days to be clear here ...
Posts: 1,862
Ladies, please don't give us hints
If you haven’t been married long enough, or have never picked up on this about men, let me put it very succinctly for you so you will never question it again: Please don’t give us hints. We don’t catch them. You threw it at us, but we didn’t even know you threw anything. You expect us to be in tune – we’re not. You expect our mind to work a certain way – it doesn’t. Hints are extremely frustrating to us, and if you expect us to pick up on it, it’s going to lead you into a lot of frustration with us. I’m sorry as I realize this probably doesn’t fit your romantic ideas, but that’s just how it is with us men in general.
You want to know just how bad we are? My wife had a certain little kink she wanted from me for years. I posted the story in the “Sex in Marriage” forum, if you’re really interested in it, PM me and I’ll give you the link to the story. For more than 20 years, she gave me hints, and if you read the story, you’ll probably wonder how she could have possibly been more obvious. For 20 years she lived without it because I didn’t know she wanted that. It's also unusual for her because she knows better than to try to hint to me. Giving this to her required me to overcome a huge inhibition – one I would have never overcome unless I knew she wanted that. When I knew what she wanted, I was able to overcome it just for her – my lady has that big of an effect on me.
I have read so many ladies on these boards in the last few weeks who say they feel neglected or rejected. My first question is whether or not they have explicitly talked with their husbands about their feelings of rejection or neglect. I’ll grant that some men are never going to put their ladies where they need to be in the priorities list, but unless you tell him you feel neglected or rejected, there's no chance he's going to know and he never has a chance to get it right. He will not pick up on your hints.
I know you can make the argument that “I tried to tell my husband … “ but let me give you a little idea about how it works with me. I’m someone who REALLY loves my lady. I WANT her to be happy. I mean I REALLY WANT her to be happy. I want her to thrive and not just live, to enjoy life to its fullest and look back with no regrets, and no dreams unfulfilled. Still, I miss her hints. If she lets it go until she is frustrated, then when she talks to me, at first, my passion will rise to match the passion she puts into her words. (This is called arguing, if you haven’t caught that just yet.) If she tells me before she is frustrated, then usually, I listen without passion, so we don’t argue about it.
Even if we argue, you can bet that the emotion and passion of the argument will pass soon. When it passes, I still have the message. Now, I feel absolutely terrible, and this isn’t necessarily a bad thing – it’s part of my love for her. I never thought my lady felt neglected or frustrated. Now that I know, my mind becomes very busy. All that mental energy that you see that makes me sometime seem distant, preoccupied or like I’m somewhere else? That energy that makes me delay my answers to you and makes you think I’m not listening? That energy is present while I’m working, running, working out, whatever I’m doing that next day. My mind is very busy working on this particular problem. What did I miss? How do I make it better? What does she really want? How do I let her know she is loved? How do I make up that I didn’t know she wanted <insert favorite present here> for her birthday? I’m a problem solver, so this is how my mind works.
Maybe I’ll go back to talk again after I’ve had some time to think. I may start asking “What do you really want?” I’m not condemning when I ask this. Think about it. If I was expert enough to actually innovate in this area, you would have never felt neglected in the first place. Teach me how to help you, please! This is what I’m really asking. If you start telling me and I answer with, “But I did X, Y, and Z,” I’m not telling you I’m faultless, nor am I saying you’re selfish. What I’m saying is that I honestly thought I was doing what you are asking. Please understand that and tell me how this is different so I can understand it. Maybe you could start with, “Yes, I remember X, Y, and Z, and that was nice, but what it lacked was … “ I may ask questions about whether or not you are thinking about me, and may ask if you are being selfish. I usually try to avoid these questions, but I sometimes need to evaluate what’s right in these areas too. When we’re through with this conversation, even though I made promises, I’m probably going to have to retreat again and think. I want to get this right – I REALLY want to get this right.
Okay, if you asked for something romantic, I hope you gave me some real suggestions. For example, if you think it would be romantic for me to wash your hair for you, I hope you told me “It would be really nice if you sometimes just took time and washed my hair.” Don’t just tell me “Oh, I don’t know. Just be creative.” Think about it again. If I was expert enough in this area to actually innovate like you are asking me to do, you would never have felt neglected or frustrated. Now, when you gave me those suggestions, I’m going to put my mind to doing it for you, but think again about my level of expertise. I’m going to start with what you suggested – I’m going to try to find a time when it will be nice to wash your hair for you. The first time I do this is my first time to ever do this. Don’t expect me to be an expert at it. In fact, expect me to be clumsy and awkward this first time. If you tell me what you like, and what I did that made it nice, then I’ll do that and repeat that, and I’ll think about how I can improve on what I did. So we get past this first time, and the next time I do it for you, I’ll be better. I need to learn and become more skilled, but you also need to help me learn and not expect me to start out as an expert.
After I’ve been able to work through a few of your ideas about what is romantic, then maybe I can begin to innovate and come up with some ideas of my own. However; don’t count on my ideas matching your ideas. If I have an idea and try to carry through, it is nice if you can enjoy it, but if you don’t, please tell me what would be better. Please don’t expect that I suddenly got it, and you won’t need to tell me any more. Please continue to give me ideas by telling me “It would be nice if you would sometimes … “ Don’t revert back to giving me hints and expecting me to catch them – just expect that I’m not going to catch them, and I’m not going to know what you want unless you tell me.
I’ve taught my daughters this since a young age. My younger daughter is getting married next month. When she talks to me, I think she’s got this one down. I’m happy about that – it gives her a much greater chance for happiness if she just realizes that she needs to tell him what she wants – not hint.
You ladies are a mystery to us sometimes, and you don’t stop being a mystery even though we’ve been married a long time. That’s part of the excitement of being with you to be honest, but truly, we need you to know that you’re a bit of a mystery to us, and when we want to know what you really like or want, we need you to tell us. We don’t want you to feel rejected, neglected, lonely, etc. But in order to help you not feel that way, we first need you to open up to us and talk to us honestly. And when you think of what you want, you need to remember one more important point: We also need to feel important, and we need you to invest yourself in us sometimes. If you always want us to give, and you don’t give back, then soon enough, we, like you, will become empty and have nothing left to give.
I agree with this as well. Unfortunately, some men do not care enough to act on what their wife tells them even if she is crystal clear about what she wants, needs.
I agree with this as well. Unfortunately, some men do not care enough to act on what their wife tells them even if she is crystal clear about what she wants, needs.
this is true too.
sometimes we need a knock in the head as well.
I agree with the OP.
We are stupid. We try, but there is a lot of stuff we just don't understand, never have and never will.
We can think up some romantic stuff on our own, but if you want something specific, ask and be straight out about it.
Stupid Men...Stupid Women , who do not understand their Stupid Men...
Be just Pro -Active in Interactions...for Apt Communication ..women assume or complain.., that Men shud Know...and they , women usually never try to know Men or whether, that Men have understood them.
I know my husband loves me and cares that I am happy. However, sometimes he does not listen! I get frustrated when I have to repeat myself 2 or 3 times.
I'll add to your advice - men need to ramp up their listening skills.
My husband and I joke about it. The first time I ask is a trail ballon, the 2nd a warning shot the third is on the money.
Depending on the personalities of the parties involved, the frustration builds to resentment over the years and becomes a major problem.
If the man is not paying attention, he is confused when his wife begins to ignore him when he abruptly remembers she is there for something he wants.
My advice - ladies be explicit, watch tone of voice. Men, listen to your wife, it hurts when we seem to be selectively ignored.
Location: On a clear day, I can see Mt. Rainier ... but you can't count on the days to be clear here ...
Posts: 1,862
Re: Ladies, please don't give us hints
You know, Catherine and EleGirl, these threads mostly give men a chance to talk because the OP is a man . The OP here thinks it would be a good idea if some of you ladies who are good writers would also start threads that give the ladies a chance to talk to us. Are there things you want to tell us?
I’m a problem solver, so this is how my mind works.
I'm sure that there are a lot of women who don't really know what they want yet. Sometimes they have to grow in these things internally first, before they are at a point where they can be verbalized and then take flight. For example, for me, I have had certain inhibitions to overcome, but I really have to work through those inside myself for awhile first, before I allow them to take flight with my H.
A lot of men are problem solvers by nature, as you pointed out about yourself. And a lot of women are more process oriented by nature. Myself, for example, am more process oriented. For instance, it's more in my nature to try and give my kids the 'tools' to be able to figure certain things out on their own. I probably don't treat my H that much differently - and actually it is a whole lot sweeter when he figures out these things on his own - as it means he is being very observant. If you have to constantly harp on your husband about what romantic things you want, it can become a turn-off for both.
My H sounds a bit like Catherine's. He is generally a very poor listener - he even admits this, so that does help that he acknowledges it. So, even if I communicate with him, he often doesn't really hear. Even if I put things in plain and simple words sometimes - it takes many, many -often frustrating - attempts before there's understanding. That does make it doubly frustrating - as neither hints nor plain language work well stometimes.
I agree with Catherine - learning to listen to your partner is a great skill to cultivate. It is something that you can empower yourself to do. And as I have noted before - active listening involves more than just your ears - it also involves your eyes in watching and observing as well, and your heart - to be open and willing.
But The title implied that you were posting advice to women.
Just read don't respond?
I meant to post that I don't want to turn into a she said he said and deluge the message.
This is a good topic, might both men and women enter into the exchange?
People are are a puzzle. We say want a thing, like clear communication let say, but with one proviso. It should be on a topic in which we have a vested interest. Ok over and out. Posted via Mobile Device
Location: On a clear day, I can see Mt. Rainier ... but you can't count on the days to be clear here ...
Posts: 1,862
Re: Ladies, please don't give us hints
Enchantment, The point about us being poor listeners is very good and one I think is probably relevant. I can describe in a lot of detail how my own mental processes work that will make me appear to not be a good listener as well - at least some times. I'm not sure how interested you might be in that, so let me know.
What I'm more interested in would be suggestions from bright ladies such as you. First, you may need to define for me what you mean by "harp on him." Do you mean you have to repeat because he's not catching it the first time? Or do you mean that you dislike having to tell him what you find romantic because you want him to figure it out.
If it is that you don't like to repeat, then I fully understand. If you mean that you don't want to have to tell him, and want him to figure it out, then I can see a deadlock developing here especially if we don't know, but you don't want to tell us. How do we resolve the deadlock?
I would like to think I would solve this by being observant, but I find I often observe the wrong thing, or probably more correctly, I misinterpret what I am observing. One of the things I do is to go onto sites like this and learn what other ladies like, and just as expected, I learn a lot. As a final validation, I ask my wife about such things, and when I find that she likes them, I make plans for these things with her. The only problem with this is that it de-personalizes it somewhat for me. I'm glad I found something, but the things she tells me she likes of her own accord will ALWAYS trump any ideas I got from such ladies on the internet - even from ladies such as you. If I don't get the ideas from her, where else would I go? If she didn't talk to me about them, and I didn't have a source such as you ladies, I would have no ideas.
There are a few things I have found along the way that have turned into regular romantic encounters, but these usually had very practical and unromantic beginnings. One example is when my wife fell and broke her foot - 6 fractures in 3 bones ... pins, wires, surgeries, the whole mess to get her foot back put back together. As she began to heal, I needed to massage her foot as part of the therapy. I took on this task, and discovered she liked the massages. Since she liked them, I extended it to both feet, and continued it long after she needed therapy. A few years later, she was diagoned as borderline diabetic (the people of her nationality are eaten up with diabetes despite the fact that they are not obese. My wife is definitely NOT obese. she is quite fit.) I became even more diligent with the massages because I want to be extra vigilant in helping her to maintain good circulation in her feet so she doesn't lose any of those beautiful toes, and I extended the massages to her hands as well. She's not in danger of any of that now, but I just want to be doubly sure and do my part to make sure it never becomes a danger. The romantic part of massaging her feet and legs is very enjoyable to me as well to her.
It took a **** broken foot for me to figure out she liked to have her feet massaged!!! WHY??? It's not that I don't love her - I dote on her and always have. Why does my mind not work in these areas and why do I not pick up on them? I honestly don't know. I actually get aggravated at myself for not picking up on them.
She gets treated regularly to other things she has told me she finds romantic. I just need her to tell me what those things are.
Location: On a clear day, I can see Mt. Rainier ... but you can't count on the days to be clear here ...
Posts: 1,862
Re: Ladies, please don't give us hints
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine602
Ooookay.
But The title implied that you were posting advice to women.
Just read don't respond?
I meant to post that I don't want to turn into a she said he said and deluge the message.
This is a good topic, might both men and women enter into the exchange?
People are are a puzzle. We say want a thing, like clear communication let say, but with one proviso. It should be on a topic in which we have a vested interest. Ok over and out. Posted via Mobile Device
No, no, no. I didn't mean don't respond at all. I absolutely think women should engage in the dialogue here! PLEASE DO engage in the dialogue.
I was thinking with the suggestion that there are probably things you ladies really want to say to us, and I'm not the person to start a thread on that. I started a thread on what it does to us to have hints instead of direct communication. If you had something you wanted to tell us, what would it be?
You sound like a real sweetheart. I hope your wife feels lucky to have you just as you seem to feel lucky to have her.
What are things that I would tell guys? Here's one. Spend at least 15 hours a week with your wife doing date-like things. This would be just the two of you... walking and holding hands, having coffee and talking to each other one or two weekly dates.
When it comes to the weekly dates. Treat them as real dates. Where you plan them, get the babysitter, etc. This shows her that YOU want to take her out. It's romantic.
What I would like if my husband were listening is for him to plan one date and I do the next. It gives each of us a chance to treat the other as though we were still dating.
Can you give an example of how you misinterpret? For instance what do you hear Vs what the other person said.
Maybe it's that I think that I am being clear but I its not clear for him. Another words I am speaking womenglish to a man who speaks menenglish. He seems to listen, he looks at me and answers appropriately but I am never sure what he heard. I am tempted to ask him to repeat what I said but Mr C does not like to be treated like one of the kids. So I just hope for the best.
It is funny how he interprets what I say. An example - I forgot to get something from the grocery store to bake cookie for the kids school on Mon. It was Sat and he was going out so I asked him to pick it up for me. He came back home with out it. I said oh you forgot the ..., he said no I didn't your said you needed it for Mon so I'll pick it up Sun.
I didnt mention that I wanted to bake Sat so I wouldn't rush on Sun. I couldn't get mad, I just had to laugh. It's really funny.
I guess it would help to tell us how to be explicit. I think some women think they are being clear but it clear to them not to him.
BTW I don't think men are stupid. They are very difficult for me to decode sometimes. I am getting better but at times the miscommunication between myself and my husband makes me think that when I do understand him it is because even random shots hit the target sometimes. ;8} Posted via Mobile Device
Oh this is common for me. I have a difficult time talking about what I like when we make love. I want to say do that again I love it. He sometimes ask me open ended questions that require me to express what I want. I told him that I have a hard time talking about it. I asked to give me a list and I'll chose.
He can't understand why I can't say it but I can chose it. For men who have wives who are like me - I love sex but I am inhibited - try giving your wife a list of 3 items to choose from rather than open ended questions.
That one thing I would like my husband to do. I don't think he understands so he forgets. I can not explain why but that works for me. Posted via Mobile Device
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Ladies, please don't give us hints 
*ouch*
. The OP here thinks it would be a good idea if some of you ladies who are good writers would also start threads that give the ladies a chance to talk to us. Are there things you want to tell us?
