Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
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post #46 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2012, 02:47 PM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Here are some suggestions about dealing with common problems. People may have others, but I think these are reasonable.

1. Sloppy guy You find clothes on the floor, dishes strewn around. Pick your battles, ladies, and this is one you need to fight. Lay into your husband to clean up early in the marriage, and create good habits. .

2. Inlaws Don't create big fights and don't cave in. Jane's husband has a company dinner, and mom just mentioned that Uncle Herb has a 60th birthday the same night. Of course, you can't miss Uncle Herb's party, everyone will be there. I talked to my friend Rose, and she couldn't believe you would be so callous and uncaring of my feelings, the mother explains.

Don't take the bait and make the issue a big fight. Take a clear position, remain calm, don't apologize or antangonize.

3. Sex Women's drive will decrease with the second child. Hormonally there are changes, friends as a reference point become women with children she no longer sees the need to get or keep the guy, weight-gain may make her feel self-conscious and there are tremendous time pressures with caring for two children, maintaining a house, and working.

Nonetheless the successful couple negotiates the changes through compromise, obviously appreciatign the pleasures of having children. The husband learns to be happy with perhaps one time during the week, and perhaps once on the weekend, the wife understands that not only physically but psychologically the husband does not want to experience constant rejection.

4. House If she's happy, everyone will be happy, if she's not, no one will. Stretch finances to a reasonable extent, and look for a house the wife likes.

5. Power Successful relationship relationshp generally reflect split power, consensus decisions, and mutual respect. With finances, each should have some role and some control over money. Each should not have to plead for 30 dollars.

6. Challenges and context. Both people put the marriage first. One cannot compare the marriages with a storybook one; instead, if comparisons are made, look at the divorced couple with savings going to lawyers, constant arguments over things, and two sets of household costs.

7. Fidelity Women may yell and scream about many things, but most are pretty resiliant tolerating many things except infidelity. It's a game-breaker and even if you're forgiven, there will be 10-15,000 occasions in the next years where it will be mentioned or thought of, going out for a drink with a buddy, the wife has the I don't trust you look.

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post #47 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:37 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

The deodorant thing - usually if my husband is not sure of which brand of a certain product I wanted, he might assume that is the one he sees, but in either ways, he'd ask me if he's not 100% sure. But usually I try to be as explicit as I can anyways, since whether you're talking to a man or a woman, you can't just assume that the other person would know the details if I didn't mention them anyways.

The house chores - if both partners works then it's just normal to split house chores, right? If you want a woman to do all the work at home, then you might consider doubling your salary... And please don't ask why men have to do the heavy stuffs, since we don't ask why men doesn't have to carry a baby for 9 months and then breast feed them for months too...
I agree that the house chores and other responsibilities should be talked about before even living together. Being together it's about being equal partners sharing the responsibilities together. Maybe one is better at doing some things while another is better at other things. Yet as long as there's some balance, I don't see how it can be unfair.

About talking about feelings - I'm better at expressing my own feelings than my husband. I'm also the one who's more bossy and assertive, while he's more passive. For that, I do try to encourage him to express himself. If someone is not good at expressing himself, you have to be a bit more patient and give space while make things comfortable enough for him. When it comes to that, it's a bit hard for me, but I try to not be pushy or too assertive. On the other hand, he has to learn how to give me space to cool down whenever we argue, since I can get very heated up and not able to continue with the fight.
It's not simply about men wanting to solve things or women only focusing on the emotions, it's about the capacity to perceive the difference in our communication styles and find the best way to reach an understanding. This is part of solving the problems too. If you are saying the wrong things while trying to calm someone down, this is not a problem of you being focused on solving the problem, but rather you being focused on reaching the solution state as soon as possible while not figuring out how things works in order to solve the problems.
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post #48 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:57 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

yes, all men's should agree with these points.

Nice post, It should be spread through out the forums
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post #49 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 06:21 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbieDoll View Post
So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.

I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah Musinex blah blah blah liquid" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.

Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.

==============================================

1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.

There are differences to the two: hearing us is basically hearing background noise. "Pick up deodorant". Listening is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "Pick up the same deodorant I use". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.

Men FAIL
: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
Women FAIL: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.

2. Reciprocate.

Myth: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
Truth: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.

We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.

Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.

I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!

3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.

I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.

Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.

4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.

Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!

Men FAIL: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
Women FAIL: FINE.

=========================================

This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.

I also have to put a disclaimer that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.

And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!

Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.

ENJOY!!


I read it thoroughly and I must say I couldn't agree more!
Especially with #1.
Generally speaking, men don't listen. But the converse of that is that women are often times incoherent.......

Great Post!

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....And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music....
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post #50 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 01:37 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Okay fair enough. Everything you have listed, I've done all that. My wife cooks, I clean dishes, I do laundry, I feed my son, and I clean most of the house works. All she does is clean our bathroom and cook us breakfast/dinner sometimes because we have someone already prepared dinner for us when we get home. I've listened and gave her all my affections.

But when its time for her to give me affections she disregard it and doesn't feel the need to make me happy at night? so what gives?

About me: Realistically I am not average joe, I am well tone and well dressed, financially stable.

I began to stop doing those things since she didn't do her part as a wife.

All in all is this, when we men provided you with our best, basically spoiled our wives, they take us for granted so we stop listen and stop caring.
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post #51 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-29-2015, 05:01 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbieDoll View Post
1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.

There are differences to the two: hearing us is basically hearing background noise. "Pick up deodorant". Listening is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "Pick up the same deodorant I use". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
[B]
You have the message, it's your responsibility to communicate it.

The person with the best communication skills must adapt to the person with less communication skills - it would be unreasoned to expect the poor communicator to suddenly get better skills because a "good" communicator wants to talk to them.
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post #52 of 68 (permalink) Old 10-12-2015, 07:08 PM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEM View Post
Okay fair enough. Everything you have listed, I've done all that. My wife cooks, I clean dishes, I do laundry, I feed my son, and I clean most of the house works. All she does is clean our bathroom and cook us breakfast/dinner sometimes because we have someone already prepared dinner for us when we get home. I've listened and gave her all my affections.

But when its time for her to give me affections she disregard it and doesn't feel the need to make me happy at night? so what gives?

About me: Realistically I am not average joe, I am well tone and well dressed, financially stable.

I began to stop doing those things since she didn't do her part as a wife.

All in all is this, when we men provided you with our best, basically spoiled our wives, they take us for granted so we stop listen and stop caring.
I'm totally in the same boat, except that I've provided 90% of the income, all of the maintenance and cleaning of the house, car, boat and plane. She does most of the cooking, and I'm very appreciative. I've provided her with all the care and loving that any woman would want, and she come close to reciprocating, but I sure wish there was a bit more understanding, when I fall down on the job, because I'm tired or just get behind things. And, I really would like if she were more passionate, not only sex, but touch, hug, cuddle, and comments more about how she cares for me.... I can't get enough.

As for listening, we could both improve on that one, but it's certainly not one sided.

The implication that all men aren't listening goes both ways and is totally inappropriate.

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post #53 of 68 (permalink) Old 10-30-2015, 06:36 PM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

People are all a mix of nature & nurture. We left home to go to university when 17/18 years old. We met when I had just turned 21 & he was 22. We moved in together that first weekend really. We've spent a LOT of time together, just the 2 of us. We need to accept that we are just as (if not more) responsible for 'nurturing' eachother as our parents. When things aren't going well that's something I try to remember....His annoying behaviors are often a mix of HIS nature & my (unintentional) nurture of him.

I'm a people pleaser, to a fault (I'm working on it) & I over analyze things. I've never been one to scream & shout. If my H hurts me I'm guilty of not saying anything until I've thought it through. My H is a bad communicator. For 24 of our 25 years this worked for us! I was secure in his love for me so in any situation I always assumed the best, made excuses, came to understanding....he loves me, wouldn't hurt me intentionally, he must be feeling bad so I don't say anything because it would just hurt his feelings.

So here's my question to men out there.... Would you rather your wife exploded? Shouted saying extreme things she doesn't really mean? Threw things & screamed? I know it sounds like a strange question but REALLY think about it. My H has said that in these situations he often perceives it as me not caring...apathy rather than protecting his feelings. Simply stating my perception of the situation, calmly expressing my feelings & thoughts (after calming myself & analyzing) can make him feel unloved, not special.

He describes himself as having a "Toxic Gob". No filter when he's feeling bad. I know the whole 'sticks & stones' thing but I'm over sensitive (something else I'm working on) & words truly hurt & 'break me'. Why would I inflict that pain on my love? Do men find adversity easier to work through if the woman 'gives as good as she gets' & hurls back insults?

I know in little situations (like purchasing deodorant) the cliche is...men need things spelt out to them. Never assume, hint. Just lay it out in detail. Do men understand verbal violence, ACTION, SHOUTING etc as PASSION, more feeling than calm expression in emotional situations? Recently I 'lost-it' & shouted for the first time in 25 years!! It terrified my H! I think we achieved more in that evening than we had been in MONTHS of calm communication. I'm just not sure I have histrionics in me. Logically, mentally I don't agree with being a drama queen. Is this something I should be working on? For all the negative things men say about it, deep down inside do you need the drama? Do you really like the passion? I'm a cuddles & snuggles woman when I'm hurt.... Would you rather the emotional release of dodging the china being hurled at you?
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post #54 of 68 (permalink) Old 10-31-2015, 03:22 PM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

I learned the hard way not to discuss my "feelings'. She wondered why I was feeling stressed, and I spoke about the pressure of being the sole wage earner. I made the mistake of honestly sharing my feelings, wife response was "I can't believe you would feel that WAY!"

Just added more stress to the situation. Wives should not ask if they can't handle the answer.
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post #55 of 68 (permalink) Old 10-31-2015, 05:19 PM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

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Originally Posted by FrazzledSadHusband View Post
I learned the hard way not to discuss my "feelings'.
So did I, the response was always "I am doing the best I can and if you don't like it I am leaving!" It didn't matter that I paid every bill, bought the groceries, took care of the house, took care of the yard, paid for vacations we couldn't afford, took care of the cars, etc. etc. She was always too (busy, tired, bloated, constipated, take your pick). I guess the best she could involved duty sex once every couple of weeks? Because after all I was just being ridiculous. You know she brought me her desert when she was out with her Girlies, so why should I complain.


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post #56 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 11:04 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

A few suggestions.

"1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.
There are differences to the two: hearing us is basically hearing background noise. "Pick up deodorant". Listening is when you actually got the details of what we were saying... " I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.
Women FAIL: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows."

Husbands need to use the same approach to speaking with women. If you think she should lose weight, specify how much, what she should eat and followup. If your lovelife is boring, don't mention a vague we should try something new, but give her a detailed list of things she needs to do. Women like direction and being given specific tasks along with constructive feedback- if you she is doing something wrong specific comments are helpful and a written recap also productive. If you find you are going to your inlaws a little too often, specify what you don't like about them and what should be done, and again, a detailed list and followup is very helpful to almost all women. Indeed, your mother-in-law will also welcome your specific suggestions and direction. So if her house is sloppy or colors do not match, any help you can provide in the form of specific direction will surely be welcomed.

The Helpful Husband
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post #57 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 11:40 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Huh?



I'm sorry. Did you say something?
Posted via Mobile Device
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post #58 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 06:51 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbieDoll View Post
So, after reading shy_guy's very insightful post about what he (and for similar men) would like from women, I think it's also fair for us to do the same.

I titled the post to be similar to shy_guy's. It made me laugh when someone posted that all she thought her husband heard was "blah blah blah Musinex blah blah blah liquid" because I often think all men hear is the voice from Charlie Brown.

Anyhoo... here's my best stab at something similar.

==============================================

1. Please listen and not just hear us when we speak.

There are differences to the two: hearing us is basically hearing background noise. "Pick up deodorant". Listening is when you actually got the details of what we were saying. "Pick up the same deodorant I use". This is where I also fall into the trap of ASSUMING he knows or HOPING he'd be smart enough to check out what deodorant I use or know to go to where I keep it to find out. I learned that I have to specifically say what brand, what scent and sometimes what it looks like. I had to get over the fact that he doesn't care to waste time to figure all that stuff out when it was easier for me to tell him.

Men FAIL
: Hearing only "Pick up deodorant"
Women FAIL: Be specific. STOP assuming he knows.

2. Reciprocate.

Myth: Women/Wives love to clean the house, do laundry, cook dinner... yada yada.
Truth: We (or majority of us) do it because we like a clean house, clean clothes and food.. not because we enjoy it. We (or marjority of us) would also prefer to come home, sit in front of the TV and have things magically done for us.

We nag/b!tch because we have a reason to. If we feel like we are doing more work than you are, that'll begin the nagging/b!tching. I would prefer that while I'm cooking dinner, H is putting in a load of laundry or putting away dishes. Then we can eat together, cleanup and wash the dishes together and then have our down time TOGETHER. It really irritates me that as soon as I get home, I'm busting my butt to prepare dinner, wash/put away the dishes from that morning, have supper ready for H then have him retire himself to the den after dinner so he can relax only to leave me in the kitchen to clean up and wash more dishes. You think I'm going to be happy after that? NOPE.

Share the chores, share the nag free quiet happiness together.

I'm working on this by the way...it's not a free ticket!

3. Just because we're married, it doesn't mean I'm dead.

I know this is an issue for many people and we're no different. Each couple differs in in this department though. Personally, I would love it if my H complimented me more. I get the odd "you're cute" every few months. That's the extent. This wouldn't be an issue if there were physical things he did to show me that he's still attracted. I'm not asking for a compliment about everything, every day but it would be so nice to be complimented on odd days or when I put an extra effort.

Of course I can't put anything to do with sexuality in this post because being on here long enough has taught me that both men and women can be sexually deprived. So nothing in this department.

4. Talking about your issues/feelings is NOT a sign of weakness.

Ok, we get it. If you "talk about your feelings" other guys might think you're lame or a pansy. But what you fail to realize is that you would save yourself and your wife or S.O. so much wasted energy and time by just spitting it out. By not telling us what's going on, we automatically ASSUME and that's when we get creative with our thoughts. On the flip side, we women should also STOP saying the word "fine" or "It's fine". This does nothing but piss off men. Communicate, communicate, communicate!!

Men FAIL: Talking about my feelings is lame. It'll go away.
Women FAIL: FINE.

=========================================

This can go on and on and is not an exhaustive list but a good start I would think.

I also have to put a disclaimer that every situation is different. I am NOT painting everyone with the same brush but merely stating some things that are ON AVERAGE, a pretty good representation of situations.

And remember; Men, you fight with fists and are physical about it. We, on the other hand, do not... we fight a great game of mental warfare . LOL!

Like it, love it, hate it... it's my view/opinion.

ENJOY!!
This seem to be: Men, stop being *******s. Just like the first advice from IT will be to turn it off and turn it back on again, this is all good sound advice. However, if this were to solve most problems in marriage then the problem in marriage would be the man being an ass. If there are any further issues and the man is not an ass, this advice line will run dry.

Disclaimer acknowledged! Please take this as an appendix to disclaimer.
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post #59 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 03:41 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Good points on this subject.... a few comments....

Listening is a TWO way street. Both need to listen carefully, not just the men. I've gotten to the point, if it's really important, write it down and read it to her and then hand her the paper. She does forget at times, as so do I.

Communication IS important, but actions are MORE important, especially feelings. Talking about feelings can easily bring the wrong result... be careful, and keep feelings talk light and to the point. Going into deep feelings and long talks is for a counselor, not men and women in a relationship.

Now, expression of feelings...an "ILY" or "you mean a lot to me" or "thanks" or "I'm here for you" is VERY IMPORTANT. Those words need to be repeated often between SOs.

November
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post #60 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-06-2016, 09:59 AM
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Re: Men, please listen (and not just hear) when we speak

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEM View Post
Okay fair enough. Everything you have listed, I've done all that. My wife cooks, I clean dishes, I do laundry, I feed my son, and I clean most of the house works. All she does is clean our bathroom and cook us breakfast/dinner sometimes because we have someone already prepared dinner for us when we get home. I've listened and gave her all my affections.

But when its time for her to give me affections she disregard it and doesn't feel the need to make me happy at night? so what gives?

About me: Realistically I am not average joe, I am well tone and well dressed, financially stable.

I began to stop doing those things since she didn't do her part as a wife.

All in all is this, when we men provided you with our best, basically spoiled our wives, they take us for granted so we stop listen and stop caring.
This is where I am at as well. I feel your pain.

The worst thing is, is that my wife knows exactly what is going on. We have been going through the same cycle for the last 20 years.
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