Triton

In the 16 years , I have been married I still do not speak the langauge. I am not the best communicator at all with my wife. I have read books,etc. But the guys that I know that are "BIG DOGS " who don't care about any women-get along so well. They may have 99 problems but their women are never one. I know I am intelligent and a professional, but -Man it is hard seeing myself go another 16 years with very little progress. Part of me wants to be -OUT THERE -just dating forever-soon as things get tough -just bail . Sometimes, I wish a Jerk could come in and take over. I am so tired. My wife is supportive ,and says most guys don't communicate well. But in the heat of battle I wish I had a translator. Well it is Cheaper to Keep Her

draconis

Good communication skills are learned and sometimes stumbled upon. You don't have to be a jerk to "get it". My wife and I have great communication skills.

draconis

__________________
www.myspace.com/draconis1973

Deejo

Test-drive that piece with her and see where it leads.

Triton

Deejo, been there done that. I am the type of guy that tells it how it is. I don't beat around the " Bush ". For the people, I care about they get -The Truth. I told her how I feel ,and like Drac said -basically takes time. For me , is how much more time. I could have probably found a cure for AIDS by now.I told my wife maybe we should split. But for her, she is in it to win it. That's great !But for me- maybe I try too hard. Plus, as I said for the "Jerks" a.k.a Professionals -it just seems so easy. Sometimes as I said -I wish I had consultants on duty to help me translate. That is how I found this site. It is great site may I add.

draconis

It comes from two parts the first being personal charisma in which a person is comfortable with who they are and there surroundings. Most professionals learn charisma. Try to go to a party walk in the middle and socialize like you know most of the people there. That is a powerful tool once you master it.

The second comes from learning true communications with another. Listening to what they say, speaking clearly and asking the right questions, Reading body language.

For many men it is harder then women on average. Mens minds are wired differently with less "white" matter between the two halves. But it also allows the mind to focus better on one task.

If you have time study how people communicate without being rude or obvious about it. A social get together is the best way. When I use to write I would go to a mall and study how people moved, talked etc. I learn quite a bit about human nature.

The biggest truth however is how I learned to "truely" communicate. It was at the end of my first divorce. My ex wife taught me a lot about the importance of listening to what the other person said. Now often I repeat part of it back to people in important conversations because it is a part of a memory techique. If I don't understand something I ask for it to be said in a different way, or I say it back to them as I understand it and let them correct me on the finer points.

I wish you the best.

draconis

__________________
www.myspace.com/draconis1973

Deejo

In my case, I am the communication facilitator. As a result, I keep asking myself what I missed. My wife has a host of acceptance, abandonment, and self-esteem issues as a result of her upbringing. I consistently navigated those and would find ways to build her up. Somewhere in the midst of catering to her needs - I began to recognize that there seemed to be little investment on her part in catering to my needs. Somehow, that is where our communication broke down - and I got tired of trying to fix it.

So, I became the 'jerk' - and that is what got my wifes attention. I no longer think in terms of 'we' (for my wife and I) there is most certainly a 'we' where my children and my wife is concerned.

I'm not proud of where I ended up. I have been swallowing anger for virtually all of my life - because I wanted to please everyone, most particularly my wife and my family. Now the anger is out, and quick to surface, and my wife feels like she doesn't really know who I am. I'm trying to find the balance for myself, and my relationship to my wife.

Triton

Drac, Just by chance I ended up at a Marriage Retreat ,and was so good to learn the many different ways to communicate-By touch,by gifts, by service, etc. .I use to be so confused. But this retreat " Broke It Down ". Also, it was wonderful to be with others with the same concerns. I use to hate when I would hear others say - Communication. I needed " Rosetta Stone ". Thanks guys and girls !

carmaenforcer

Like Deejo, I have also turned to being an A-hole when being a nice guy was getting me nowhere. Like with Deejo I have also had great success faster progress than when I tried to do things the nice way. I am forever teetering on the edge of divorce but had got to a point where I didn't give a rats you know what anymore.

You might reach your Wife with kind words or by pandering to her every emotion and irrationality but then again things might just get worse. You might find that in pandering to your woman you will have created a monster, a monster that you keep feed with every wrong that you allow her to get away with.
I say starve and eventually kill or at least stop feeding
"the monster" and instead feed what mutually benefits the relationship.

draconis

I am glad your retreat helped. It is a shame I am not a better writer and could help more people.

draconis

__________________
www.myspace.com/draconis1973

MarkTwain

"Does a " Good Guy " ever speak the woman language ?" Pardon me but you appear to be speaking in code yourself

What exactly are you saying in your first post? Are you saying your sex life is non existent?

Triton

MT , I was just saying that I had a hard time listening and delivering a message that was understood by her. I found out that we speak only about 125 to 150 words a min. , but can process 500-600 words a min. That left me with so much time to interrupt i.e. not listening completely. Leaving the wife to say ," You are not listening !". Sex is always great with the wife. Thank God no problems there.

Example of how I would communicate- After being asked something by the wife , my response would be -"What ya need to do ---- ." Now it comes out - " What I would suggest is----." Much better to her ears.

When I look back, I realize that I was a "Good" Pseudo- listener in all my relationships- Know why ? I could have cared less about what a woman was talking about- just nod my head-throw out a few-"Really ". I just wanted in the end -Sex. Heck , it worked. But when I started to care- put my two cents in -Here is the problem.

MarkTwain

Well you are absolutly onto something here, Triton.

Women speak in code, and only they know the rules regarding how to decipher it. And if you ever, EVER get too close to working out the code - they change it.

I am still learning about this. I made a huge mistake in my marriage for years thinking that what my wife said was what she actually meant. Some times it was, but only as regards to trivial things. Also with women, what the say in one moment might be contradicted in the next. I used to think something fishy was going on, but now I realise that whereas with men everything is fixed, women are a moving target.

Here is a silly example. My wife when I first met her said "I only like dark chocolate" So I buy her some... "I wanted xyz brand" - "but that's milk chocolate", I said. "So what?".

It's not that she was being untruthful it's just that woman tend to answer how things are in the moment, and we make the mistake of thinking it is a statement to be valid for all time.

I think the other thing to do, is to try to look at the bigger picture. Try to see the context behind her current sentences.

Well that's my 2 cents.

Shoot me down if you think I'm barking mad

MarkTwain

Triton, I just re-read your first post, and the last. In my humble opinion, if the sex is still good, then you are doing better than you think

Don't even think of leaving her. You will make progress on the communication thing. The fact that you are interested in learning is all that matters.

swedish

hmmmm...felt as a woman, I should chime in

One thing I've noticed over and over is that women tend to like to vent when things bother them or just in general and men tend to want to 'fix' whatever it is the woman is venting about.

Sometimes, when I do it, I'm just looking to offload something in my head...not looking for advice or anything...maybe just acknowledgment/affirmation (as in 'yep, that was pretty lame of him/her to do that/say that to you') or show interest in my feelings (as in 'wow, did you respond to that? what did you say/do?') Not really looking for 'If I were you I would have....' or 'you need to ....'

I think that's why when you see a group of women having dinner together, they are often huddled close chatting away...they tend to listen to each other and are very supportive of one another so we, in general, have learned to interact in this way since we were young. I have to give men credit for trying to figure us out

And MT, regarding the chocolate thing...I guess women have the right to change their mind at random ....

"From at least medieval times until the early 20th century, a man's promise of engagement to marry a woman was considered, in many jurisdictions, a legally binding contract. If the man were to subsequently change his mind, he would be said to be in "breach" of this promise and subject to litigation for damages.

The converse of this was seldom true; the concept that "it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind" had at least some basis in law (though a woman might pay a high social price for exercising this privilege) — and unless an actual dowry of money or property had changed hands, a man was unlikely to recover in a "breach of promise" suit against a woman, were he even to be allowed to file one (although there were certainly exceptions to this)."

Ah well, life ain't always fair.

Triton

You guys-and ladies are great !