Asking the ladies for guidance and validation is the primary symptom of your condition.
Stop asking your wife for permission. You want to move out? Move out. Go to counseling yourself. Don't tell her you are going. Don't invite her. Not now.
The sooner you stop acting like the you she despises, the better your odds are of recovery. But the real key in your ability to make progress - is to get to the place where reconciliation isn't your goal. It simply becomes a possible by-product of you doing the right things.
You aren't happy with yourself, because there is no definition of yourself. Here's a thought that would indicate you are on the right track. She wants a divorce? Insist she moves out, firmly. And if she laughs in your face - you should be prepared to walk out the door immediately.
It's about prioritizing your needs and boundaries. Not defining them according to someone else.
Not sure if you need to move out, but establish some space and distance. Google "detachment."
I'm also a "nice, emotional" guy - halfway through a 6 month trial separation.
It scares my wife when I stop showing interest in her and show that I'd be just fine without her. The more I pull back, the more she leans back in. I think she expected the nice guy in me to beg her to come home and tell her I'd do whatever it takes to make things better, so it scares her that I haven't acted how she thought I would.
Right now - to me - "Manning up" means getting control of my emotions more than anything else. It also means maintaining that space until I figure out how I want things to be.
Here's a thought that would indicate you are on the right track. She wants a divorce? Insist she moves out, firmly. And if she laughs in your face - you should be prepared to walk out the door immediately.
Deejo - I'm probably not too far ahead of this guy on this "track." To me, he shouldn't try to be this bold unless he's sure about what he wants and is ready to act on it. This sounds more like someone who has actually "arrived" than it does a test of progress.
I wouldn't try Deejo's test unless you are 100% ready to walk out or back up your words some other way. You'll look weak if you can't follow through. I'm guessing that if you just posted this yesterday, then you aren't at that point yet. If I'm right, the less said, the better.
The last time I tried to "man up" and let my wife know who was boss, she simply hung up on me. And I realize now that I was angry and out of control - and I believe emotional control is a big key.
[/QUOTE]It's about prioritizing your needs and boundaries. Not defining them according to someone else.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. Are there some smaller boundaries you could set first? I don't think that you can "Man up" totally in one day, no matter how many posts you read here.
Small example - I don't know how many times I've argued with my wife through e-mails while at work. I no longer do it. If she sends me something I don't appreciate, I simply reply "this isn't the time - I'm at work", instead of getting upset and emotional and getting pulled in.
No one is confusing me with Tarzan (or Deejo) just yet, but I'm learning.
NG, you are absolutely right. I was responding to Cgreenes comment about his thinking about moving out. My recommendation isn't meant to be "You should do this now..."
I meant it as a gut-check, one that I don't expect that he is prepared for. It took me a very long time to do it myself. Had I not, I would have been party to an affair going on right under my nose while we still lived in the same space. My statement was a bit over-zealous. It's not hard to remember the pain and confusion of going through this.
I also want to be clear, just because I am now preaching this stuff is not because I followed the play-book. I didn't. In fact, I'm still not. If I were, I would be divorced, instead of remaining over-invested in her safety and well-being. Kids have a lot to do with that. I can't shake that harming her, means harming them, and I simply cannot bring myself to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nice777guy
Deejo - I'm probably not too far ahead of this guy on this "track." To me, he shouldn't try to be this bold unless he's sure about what he wants and is ready to act on it. This sounds more like someone who has actually "arrived" than it does a test of progress.
I wouldn't try Deejo's test unless you are 100% ready to walk out or back up your words some other way. You'll look weak if you can't follow through. I'm guessing that if you just posted this yesterday, then you aren't at that point yet. If I'm right, the less said, the better.
The last time I tried to "man up" and let my wife know who was boss, she simply hung up on me. And I realize now that I was angry and out of control - and I believe emotional control is a big key.
Quote:
It's about prioritizing your needs and boundaries. Not defining them according to someone else.
Totally agree. Are there some smaller boundaries you could set first? I don't think that you can "Man up" totally in one day, no matter how many posts you read here.
Small example - I don't know how many times I've argued with my wife through e-mails while at work. I no longer do it. If she sends me something I don't appreciate, I simply reply "this isn't the time - I'm at work", instead of getting upset and emotional and getting pulled in.
No one is confusing me with Tarzan (or Deejo) just yet, but I'm learning.
the classic "I love you but am not in love with you" line.
You do realize, right, that in 9 out of 10 times this phrase is used, it's because she's having an affair? And in at least half of the affairs women have, it's because the man is too nice, too NOT manly enough for her, so she seeks out a guy who WILL take what he wants, like a 'real' man?
'Why don't you man up' is a woman's way of saying 'I have the emotional maturity of a 2 year old and I enjoy hurting you just because I can; since I am 2 years old, I want you to look and act like Brad Pitt in Thelma & Louise but still do everything I tell you to do because you love me.'
When a man says "why don't you man-up", what he is really saying is "I have the IQ of a 2 year old but if I keep using cool sounding catch phrases like man-up, maybe no one will figure out that I am completely clueless about everything important in life".
I once had a female acquaintance who remarked how 'manly' a guy was (as she flashed a little 'he's sexy grrrr!' expression) because he was driving a shiny new off-road truck. To me, he looked like a pimped-out city boy who bought a fancy new chick magnet car which had never seen a speck of off-road dust in its life. At a different time, the same female acquaintance remarked derogatorily about how 'dirty' my little sub-compact car was; it was covered with mud from my weekend exploring dirt roads in the high-country forest during a rain/snow storm. I had taken my little car down logging roads that most 'men' would have been scared of.
The moral of the story is that 'manly' usually refers to a fake, plastic coating that gives a man an outward veneer of manliness. True manliness bears its strength in obscurity, content to quietly function for its purpose: to protect and provide for that which it loves- and cares very little about looking/acting like a Brad Pitt bad boy clone. If a man doesn't feel deep emotion and sometimes pain, he probably doesn't know how to love very well.
If your wife tells you to 'man up', ask her if she wants you to club her over the head, drag her to the bedroom and take her in a selfish fashion, then 2 minutes later make her fetch you a six pack of beer while you watch sports and talk on the phone to one of your girl friends.
I don't think the problem in your relationship is manliness at all. I know from experience that women don't like a 'manly man' any more than 'nice guy' after the newness wears off. Your marriage has entered a new phase where the initial rush of infatuation and novelty is over.
Have you two tried counseling? You both might find it helpful to get the input of an impartial third party.
My thoughts are that a man can accomplish more with the strength of his character than he ever could with the strength of his arm. So if you're looking to "man up", first fix the former it's essential to your true manhood. When that's in place you can begin to address the latter.
Deejo's right, and it was actually from this thread that I really got thinking about the situation. 2 hours later I discovered the evidance I needed.
Turns out her idea of a "man" is a guy who is living entirely off gov't aid, has a kid that the state pays for, and has tattoos on his neck. But he does play guitar!
So, I'm thinking that if "manning" up to her means I become trash, I think I'll pass.
I had a gut check last year, a good friend from HS in apparently good health, with a great wife and 3 kids dropped dead at age 47. He was in great shape, loved life and just all around good guy. I looked inside and realized I was very happy with every aspect of my life but was unhappy with my marriage and had been for many years. It was core values that I was unhappy with and would never change. It was then I decided to move on, took 8 months. Man Up! If you are unhappy change it! Not just in your marriage in every aspect of life, life is very short make the most of it, you owe to yourself, your kids and your wife. If you are unhappy so is everyone you come in contact with.
It's obvious you just don't get it. After you man up, you are no longer scared if her infatuation with you wears off. If she wants to bail, so be it. She doesn't define 'you', or 'your' happiness. You are your own person, confident, and have strength of character. You also won't put of with any sh$t, like a wife having an EA or PA, expecting you to wait around until she figures out what she wants.
This is what manning up really means. Otherwise, we'd say, Doormat up already!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anybody
'Why don't you man up' is a woman's way of saying 'I have the emotional maturity of a 2 year old and I enjoy hurting you just because I can; since I am 2 years old, I want you to look and act like Brad Pitt in Thelma & Louise but still do everything I tell you to do because you love me.'
When a man says "why don't you man-up", what he is really saying is "I have the IQ of a 2 year old but if I keep using cool sounding catch phrases like man-up, maybe no one will figure out that I am completely clueless about everything important in life".
I once had a female acquaintance who remarked how 'manly' a guy was (as she flashed a little 'he's sexy grrrr!' expression) because he was driving a shiny new off-road truck. To me, he looked like a pimped-out city boy who bought a fancy new chick magnet car which had never seen a speck of off-road dust in its life. At a different time, the same female acquaintance remarked derogatorily about how 'dirty' my little sub-compact car was; it was covered with mud from my weekend exploring dirt roads in the high-country forest during a rain/snow storm. I had taken my little car down logging roads that most 'men' would have been scared of.
The moral of the story is that 'manly' usually refers to a fake, plastic coating that gives a man an outward veneer of manliness. True manliness bears its strength in obscurity, content to quietly function for its purpose: to protect and provide for that which it loves- and cares very little about looking/acting like a Brad Pitt bad boy clone. If a man doesn't feel deep emotion and sometimes pain, he probably doesn't know how to love very well.
If your wife tells you to 'man up', ask her if she wants you to club her over the head, drag her to the bedroom and take her in a selfish fashion, then 2 minutes later make her fetch you a six pack of beer while you watch sports and talk on the phone to one of your girl friends.
I don't think the problem in your relationship is manliness at all. I know from experience that women don't like a 'manly man' any more than 'nice guy' after the newness wears off. Your marriage has entered a new phase where the initial rush of infatuation and novelty is over.
Have you two tried counseling? You both might find it helpful to get the input of an impartial third party.
anybody,
You should actually read the man up stickies. They have absolutely nothing to do with your post.
Why don't you man up' is a woman's way of saying 'I have the emotional maturity of a 2 year old and I enjoy hurting you just because I can; since I am 2 years old, I want you to look and act like Brad Pitt in Thelma & Louise but still do everything I tell you to do because you love me.'
When a man says "why don't you man-up", what he is really saying is "I have the IQ of a 2 year old but if I keep using cool sounding catch phrases like man-up, maybe no one will figure out that I am completely clueless about everything important in life".
I once had a female acquaintance who remarked how 'manly' a guy was (as she flashed a little 'he's sexy grrrr!' expression) because he was driving a shiny new off-road truck. To me, he looked like a pimped-out city boy who bought a fancy new chick magnet car which had never seen a speck of off-road dust in its life. At a different time, the same female acquaintance remarked derogatorily about how 'dirty' my little sub-compact car was; it was covered with mud from my weekend exploring dirt roads in the high-country forest during a rain/snow storm. I had taken my little car down logging roads that most 'men' would have been scared of.
The moral of the story is that 'manly' usually refers to a fake, plastic coating that gives a man an outward veneer of manliness. True manliness bears its strength in obscurity, content to quietly function for its purpose: to protect and provide for that which it loves- and cares very little about looking/acting like a Brad Pitt bad boy clone. If a man doesn't feel deep emotion and sometimes pain, he probably doesn't know how to love very well.
If your wife tells you to 'man up', ask her if she wants you to club her over the head, drag her to the bedroom and take her in a selfish fashion, then 2 minutes later make her fetch you a six pack of beer while you watch sports and talk on the phone to one of your girl friends.
I don't think the problem in your relationship is manliness at all. I know from experience that women don't like a 'manly man' any more than 'nice guy' after the newness wears off. Your marriage has entered a new phase where the initial rush of infatuation and novelty is over.
Have you two tried counseling? You both might find it helpful to get the input of an impartial third party.[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
So if my W is having an EA in our home I should tell her how it upsets me and set boundaries such as, "When you are talking to the other guy it is disrespectful to me, our child and our marriage?" or, "As long as you are talking to him you cannot live with me?" You know I love her and don't want her to leave but I am at the end of a rope here. Posted via Mobile Device
Re: I need to "man" up. 
