when i asked about the password change... she said it was after she went to happy hour last week and i asked her 20 questions about it. her contention is she's not doing anything and wants to be treated like an adult. i get that. and at this point, she's pissed at me because of all the "manipulation" and "efforts to watch her every move"... she keeps saying she's an adult and needs friends in her life. she even said to me she doesn't want another man in her life... just friends. and she wants to feel like her husband won't go crazy every time she talks to somebody else. i don't want to go crazy... the only reason i have been crazy was finding out about the EA the way that i did, and the fear that it could happen again.
and i will say... i'm locked out of the cell phone account again...
As recently as two weeks ago your wife was in contact with the Other Man/Other Men and her emotional affair was continuing...just further underground. ANY contact means that the affair is continuing, and as long as she is not working on recovering the marriage, there is no such thing as "an innocent friendship." So no matter what she says, her EAs are continuing.
Since she is still involved in her affair, she is lying to you and trying to throw you off track by telling you she has stopped and that it's over etc. You are the man to whom she has made a vow to "act in a way so that affection and loyalty are committed and dedicated to a private person to whom loyalty is due." Is she acting so that her AFFECTION and LOYALTY are committed to you alone? If not, then she's having an affair. See how easy that is?
Soooo... there are Seven steps to end your spouse's affair . Please click on that article and start with Step #1: Collecting Evidence. This is not so you can show her and prove it to her that she's having an affair. If you caught her IN THE ACT, she would say, "It's not what it looks like" as she put her clothes back on. Nope, they is to prove to you that you are not crazy--something IS going on and your gut feeling is right.
After you are convinced, move to Step #2: Confront Her. Tell her you know the affair is continuing, you have proof, don't tell her what it is or where you have it...but say that you have had enough lying and you want her to stop the affair. Then let her know that means ending ALL contact with any other males for the time being, and giving you passwords and access to ALL her emails, IM, her phone, her laptop...EVERYWHERE so you can verify her honesty. She either does that voluntarily or admits what she's done is wrong, or you move to the next step.
Time to stop wringing your hands and grow a big, manly brass pair. Stand up for your family and respect yourself enough to stop enabling her unfaithfulness.
Hi,
I can empathize with your hurt and pain. Having said that, I want to ask you what you really want. You said that you don't want to leave your wife and want to stay married even if she did have a PA. I feel that some people are giving you their own filters, their own sense of betrayal, anger, hurt from their own experiences. It may have nothing to do with your own experience, and you might want to consider that what they are telling you are their own emotions from their own past experiences. If you do want to keep your marriage, you don't have any choice but to forgive and forget. If you can't do that, you can't choose to stay married. With that much doubts, pain and suspicions, it's enough to ruin any strong, healthy and happy relationships. You can choose to continue to dwell on the pain, but I can only see that ending badly for both of you. If both of you want to work on the relationship, you will have to let it go, and it's not for her benefits It's for your own peace and happiness. I sincerely hope that you can reach deep to find the forgiveness so you can move on past this...
I think when most people say they want to stay married, they are assuming that the biggest part of the problems have stopped and that they can begin rebuilding. But you can't rebuild on shaky ground.
People who have nothing to hide don't suddenly decide to put a protection code on their phone. And she really hasn't had much time to re-establish that she is trustworthy.
If Ozarks posts this same type of story again in a year - that he's still looking through her phone and finding nothing, hasn't seen anything for months instead of weeks or days - THEN maybe he should read your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by questions
Hi,
I can empathize with your hurt and pain. Having said that, I want to ask you what you really want. You said that you don't want to leave your wife and want to stay married even if she did have a PA. I feel that some people are giving you their own filters, their own sense of betrayal, anger, hurt from their own experiences. It may have nothing to do with your own experience, and you might want to consider that what they are telling you are their own emotions from their own past experiences. If you do want to keep your marriage, you don't have any choice but to forgive and forget. If you can't do that, you can't choose to stay married. With that much doubts, pain and suspicions, it's enough to ruin any strong, healthy and happy relationships. You can choose to continue to dwell on the pain, but I can only see that ending badly for both of you. If both of you want to work on the relationship, you will have to let it go, and it's not for her benefits It's for your own peace and happiness. I sincerely hope that you can reach deep to find the forgiveness so you can move on past this...
I think questions and niceguy both have good points.
i think our relationship has suffered because of my insecurities and continued suspicions. i also believe that if i could just let it go, things would be fine. my wife said to me today that our marriage was never threatened or in trouble. she says we have to rebuild our relationship, and for me that means being able to trust her again. i'm starting individual counseling to help me find some coping tools to better understand WHY the EA hurt me so much, and why it's fueled an obsession to watch over my wife like a hawk...which isn't healthy.
niceguy... i think you're right that it's only been a few months since interaction was cut off with the OM. and if i'm on here in a year still looking through her phone, that will indeed shed light on a much larger problem. i feel like my problem today is being able to seperate my fears/concerns regarding the EA, and my wife's innocent friendships. at the end of the day she comes home to me... she loves me... and tells me that frequently. once i can trust her fully, and be assured that another EA isn't a threat, then i feel we will be great. my wife even said today that she feels once i can find peace in my life and deal with my emotions that she knows we will be perfect again.
my wife even said today that she feels once i can find peace in my life and deal with my emotions that she knows we will be perfect again.
So - its all up to you then?
You sound a lot like me.
Your wife changing her passcode might not be a big deal. Plus, you probably really WANT to believe her and you really WANT to move forward. And hey, if its all YOUR fault, YOU can go to therapy, become a better person - YOU can FIX IT!
But don't forget that your wife is the one who chose to lie to you and step outside of your marriage.
Changing the code on the phone just doesn't make any sense - especially if she recognizes the importance of re-establishing trust. And now she's trying to convince you that the lack of trust is YOUR problem, not hers.
The phone code and the transfer of blame - so soon after her betrayal - are both big red flags. They aren't proof of guilt. But you would be foolish to bury your head in the sand because you think this is your fault and don't want to upset her with your behavior.
You mention other innocent friendships. Were you "paranoid" about those before? Do you have a history of accusing your wife of things that aren't true? How long have you been keeping track of her phone and texting habits? Did it start before or after you found out what was going on? In other words, are you truly a jealous, controlling person by nature, or is this primarily a direct reaction to what she did?
Keep your eyes open and don't be so quick to take ownership of this problem.
THERE IS NO GOOD REASON THAT YOU SHOULD BE LOCKED OUT OF THE PHONE BILL. MY WIFE DID THIS TO ME TOO - FOR MY OWN GOOD. TWO MONTHS LATER - WHEN EA #1 WAS FINALLY OVER - SHE GAVE ME THE CODE AND PASSWORD. THE FIRST THING I DID WAS GO BACK AND CHECK HOW QUICKLY THINGS HAD RESUMED AFTER SHE LOCKED ME OUT OF THE ACCOUNT. SHE HAD CALLED HIM ABOUT ONE HOUR AFTER TALKING TO THE CELL PHONE COMPANY TO HAVE THE PASSWORD CHANGED.
Look - I feel bad here - but I'm seeing my history repeated. I haven't given up, and I still see some chance for things to work out for me, so I'm not trying to tell you to cut your losses and leave, or to be prepared to end it. JUST KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN AND TRUST YOUR GUT.
What I figured out was that I could still see shared usage on my cell phone. So, even when I was locked out, I was able to see that my wife - who had been texting another man 100 times a day - was once again texting in very high volumes and was doing so when I wasn't around. I never saw her text - but I could see the text number rising daily by looking at the joint account info on my phone. See if you have this option and see if her usage activity is in line with what you see when you are together.
nice guy... you make some great points. she does make me feel like a lot of our current problems are my fault. when she went to happy hour on cinco de mayo, she wouldn't answer her phone. i'll admit i called a lot that night because it pissed me off that i was at work and she wouldn't take my calls. that was the night she changed the code again because she said i freaked her out with the high volume of calls... trying to keep tabs on her when she was "doing nothing wrong"
and as far as locking me out of the account... that's a big thorn in my side. i've asked her why and she says she doesn't want me obsessing about who she's texting/talking to when she claims there's nothing sinister going on. i say to her... well you can see who i call but i can't see who you call? her response was "we will get you your own account by yourself"...currently my number is on HER account and i'm not an OWNER on the account so i can get any information.
you're also right that i shouldn't be so quick to accept blame. what she did hurt me increadibly. and before that i was not the super jealous type at all. so now, naturally, i'm skeptical of stories and what other men's intentions are toward my wife. now, have i acted a bit crazy in my efforts to keep an eye on her? yes, i'll admit to that. but WHY have i felt the need to keep watch? because what she did hurt me and i feel like i was blindsided by it. at the time everything was great in our marriage. so i think i'm worried that if everything is okay again, am i being naive to any potential relationships, and or feelings, that she might be delving into again.
What you are saying makes perfect sense - re-read what you've written and take a minute to soak it in. I think you are dead on.
I thought my marriage was OK too.
Your marriage might be "fine" - but I can see where sneaking around and getting attention from new people could be a real thrill rush - a rush that your marriage, even if fine, wouldn't be able to compete with right now.
Double check your cell phone. I have A&T - the account is in my wife's name - on the same Option menu that has "Camera, Music, CV, etc..." - there's an option for "My Account" which won't show details, but will show usage totals. Its worth taking another look.
Happy hour - she should have answered her phone the first time you called. After answering the first time, if you kept calling every five minutes, then she has a reason to turn it off. And for your part, if she doesn't answer the first time, leave a message and then try to let it go.
You need to resist that need to call repeatedly. Instead of talking about why she isn't answering, you end up talking about YOUR repeated calls. I know - been there.
It still could be nothing. Don't panic, don't give up and don't try to fix everything RIGHT NOW. Take everything on here with a grain of salt (even my sage advice). TRUST YOUR GUT AND KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN. And its hard, but try not to panic when something looks weird. Don't call her 50 times - it will allow her to turn the attention back to you, you will push her away, you'll feel guilty and you'll get NOWHERE.
you're right... i should have left a message that night because i did get obsessive and it was totally turned back on me. my gut tells me that she's focused on our marriage again, but is tired of my insecurities, and just wants to make new friends and be social. part of our problem was we have both isolated each other from social settings for several years because of kids/jobs. now that our kids are getting older, my wife has a yearning to be around other friends and be social. she doesn't have a best girl friend persay... but she has told me she's trying to work on her female friendships.
i'm sorry that you've been in this boat before... hell i'm sorry that ANYBODY has to be in this boat. it sucks, and completely consumes your life. i used to be a level-headed guy, and even relished time that my wife and i got to spend a part...just because it was healthy. now i find myself wanting to be around her all the time for fear that the minute i'm gone, she'll feel lonely again and the temptation to burden her troubles on a willing-listener might be too great to resist.
thanks for the advice though. i have got a lot of good feedback on this site... but like you say, you have to take some with a grain of salt.
Couple of things ozarkguy. First, both my sets of grandparents are from the Ozarks so we may well be "cousins" One set is from Mountainburg, Arkansas and the other set from Cherokee Village, Arkansas.
Second, I have a concern. You wrote:
Quote:
... i think our relationship has suffered because of my insecurities and continued suspicions. i also believe that if i could just let it go, things would be fine.
I have to tell you that being an expert in helping folks recover from an affair, that this is hooey! In real life you have insecurity because she has treated you in a way that does not build a safe, secure relationship. You are suspicious because after an ENORMOUS betrayal, she continues to act suspiciously. She is telling you to "just let go" because she doesn't want you snooping around anymore...but you would probably feel a LOT more secure and less suspicious if she were honest with you, not secretive, open and transparent, and allowed you access for several months to prove she is focusing her affection and loyalty on you.
You also wrote:
Quote:
my wife said to me today that our marriage was never threatened or in trouble. she says we have to rebuild our relationship, and for me that means being able to trust her again.
Again this is hooey! Okay it is valuable to be able to trust her again--I agree with that--but you don't just blindly hand someone blanket trust, especially not after they have already broken that trust! Nope, trust is EARNED! You want to trust her? That means that SHE HAS TO ACT IN A TRUSTWORTHY MANNER!! See right now, her words and her actions do not match. Someone is trustworthy when their words match their actions. In your case, it would be reasonable to trust her after she's had an affair, when she says she'll be at work and she IS where she says she'll be...when she gives you access to her accounts and phone and bills so you can verify her honesty...when she demonstrates by her ACTIONS that she all of her affection and loyalty is for you! Right now, her affection is partially for some others (she doesn't mind hurting you if she can get enjoyment or pleasure from others) and her loyalty is DEFINITELY not for you and you alone!
What makes me somewhat angry, cousin, is that you are falling for this! Now I'm not saying you don't have some trust issues...maybe you do for all I know. What I am saying is that it is reasonable to not trust her right now. She is not acting in a way that is worthy of trust! And what's worse, she's not ACTING trustworthy and then has convinced you somehow that you are the one with the issue!! This just is not the case.
When she is behaving trustworthy, it will look like this. She will give you access to her facebook, all her emails, her laptop, her cellphone, and her phone bill so you can check on her if you like. She will not ever even ONCE talk to the OM or any other men for a little while. She will be where she says she'll be, for as long as she says ... or she'll call with an update and why it changed. She would prefer to spend time with you over spending time with people from work or other men. She would be honest and talk to you about her day, her thoughts, etc...not just her friends. And she would take personal responsibility for the damage she did and is still continuing to do!
Since you do not see ANY of that kind of trustworthy behavior, the problem is not your "trust issues" or lack of trust. The root core problem is that she actually is not worthy of trust!!
Quote:
i'm starting individual counseling to help me find some coping tools to better understand WHY the EA hurt me so much, and why it's fueled an obsession to watch over my wife like a hawk...which isn't healthy.
ozarkguy, you do not have an unhealthy obsession. What has happened is that your wife betrayed you in the deepest, most devastating way a person can betray someone they love. Thereafter, every time you have checked on her, she is continuing in that betrayal. Thus it is HEALTHY to not trust her! See the problem here? It would be an unhealthy obsession if you checked on her and she was not contacting other men...but you still were going nuts. It would be unhealthy if you had access to everything openly and she told you intimate things (not sex, I mean close, personal things) and you still were obsessed. But she's not. She is STILL covering up and every time you check you find new betrayal. AND she blames you for her issue!
The final kicker--you write:
Quote:
i feel like my problem today is being able to seperate my fears/concerns regarding the EA, and my wife's innocent friendships. at the end of the day she comes home to me... she loves me... and tells me that frequently. once i can trust her fully, and be assured that another EA isn't a threat, then i feel we will be great. my wife even said today that she feels once i can find peace in my life and deal with my emotions that she knows we will be perfect again.
She had an affair. The affair started off as an "innocent friendship." She is hiding how much she texts and calls these "innocent friendships" and she leaves you alone at home to have drinks with the "innocent friendships". That is NOT an innocent friendship! This is what I'm trying to tell you. If it were innocent she would include you--you would be welcome at these happy hours and you could drop in at work any time and find her doing things that are not compromising nor even approaching the appearance of evil. So yeah, it bristles my hide because she's continuing her unfaithful ways and then saying "How dare you not trust me!"
affaircare... thank you for your advice and thoughts. what you are saying makes perfect sense. just to be clear, she had an EA, and not a PA to my knowledge. doesn't make it any easier, and in fact from everything i've read EA's are almost more damaging than PA's. at least i think it wasn't a PA.
she actually told me she didn't want me to come to happy hour last week, during my dinner break from work, because she didn't want me to act weird or distant because she was out having fun with co-workers. that hurt me, but she didn't seem to bothered by it. honestly she seems extremely bothered at me checking up on her. her stance is... "i've told you everything, i'm not doing anything wrong, and i don't want you to obsess over things that are not harmful". my wife is a very independant person, and can be very stuborn when she sets her heels in.
since i don't have access to all the emails, phone records, etc... it's hard to just take her at her word. do i wish i could trust her? absolutely. is there any trust in our relationship right now? absolutely not. before this happened, i never would have dreamed that my wife would have an EA. now, the fear of another one is what consumes me.
and you're right in that i shouldn't let her put the blame back on me. i'm trying like hell to keep the peace though that i find MYSELF apologizing a lot more than she does. now granted, she did apologize a LOT when i found out, and still says she's sorry for any hurt she caused in my life. i just don't think she understands how continued secrecy is harmful. she doesn't see it as being secret... she says she's an adult and going to not be treated like a prisoner or someone who is owned... those are her words.
Right and when she was having her affair, did she walk up to you and tell you the truth? "Hi honey. I paid the water bill, I'm having an affair with Bob, and oh yeah can you get bread on the way home?" Or did she act all secretive, say it was innocent, and tell you they were "just friends" and in other ways try to throw you off track?
Hey I've been a disloyal spouse! I know that it can be distasteful to have my spouse checking up on you as if you didn't deserve trust. But guess what? I hadn't EARNED it and the way to earn it was to behave and let him see for his own self that my affection was only for him. That means he can look at my PC or phone, go through my purse, come to my work any darn time he wants to! And the more often he does that and finds that there's no IM logs on my PC, I don't text anyone else, my purse has my calendar in it, and I'm at work where I'm supposed to be--doing what I'm supposed to be doing--with whom I'm supposed to be with...the more the trust grows and the less he does it! Now if I was open, he was checking, all was clear for a good long while, and he was STILL distrusting...then it might be reasonable to say he's the one with the issue. But that is NOT the case with you. Hear that? That is NOT the situation you are in, and that is how she's trying to make it seem!
If it were me, to be honest, I'd do some investigating. Shoot, to be honest if it were me I'd say this:
"I've decided that I am only going to accept a partner in my life who actually IS a partner with me, and only me. I will no longer accept secretive, dishonest, untrustworthy treatment in my life so I'm going to ask you for complete openness, honest and access to everything in your life and offer you the same in mine. I will not ask of you what I'm not willing to give, and from my side you are free to verify my honesty and loyalty any time. If you're willing to allow me to do the same, we are cool and I'd consider that a step in building trust and emotional intimacy. If you are not willing to allow me to do the same, then I am no longer willing to have a partner in my life who hides their true self from me and then tries to twist it to say I'm the one with trust issues. When you are willing to treat me in a way that builds trust let me know. You are completely free to decide for yourself how you will behave and whether you will treat me with openness and deep intimacy, but just so you know, if you do decide to continue to treat me with secretive, dishonest, untrustworthy behavior, I will then decide for myself which choices I choose to make. I'm just not willing to be locked out of your life anymore and then blamed as if I'm the one with the issue."
Then again, I am kind of stubborn that way and refuse to carry responsibility that isn't mine.
That is why, when you expose and confront a wayward, you are supposed to set RULES for how you would accept them back. Those RULES include:
you give me access to your phone/computer/texts any time I ask for it, for a reasonable time of my choosing
you NEVER go anywhere where you are around other men unless I specifically know about it beforehand and agree with it
you NEVER shut me out of your activities
you remain open to discussing the affair any time I need to and you don't LIE
In return for this, I promise to not drag this out forever, I will move on after I've been able to digest what happened, and I won't hold it over your head forever
Not to say that you can't sit down and have another pow-wow and reach a new agreement. Do this right the next time.
Think of it this way: Are you SO desperate to see her every day that you are willing to give in and become her doormat, for the rest of your life, just so she won't leave?
Is that the life you have to have? Are you so sure of that? What would you do if she were dead? You'd survive.
The wife you used to have is dead. Now...you need to renegotiate.
Re: wife denies... i don't buy 
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at 
One set is from Mountainburg, Arkansas and the other set from Cherokee Village, Arkansas. 
