I tried to post this question before, and gave up lacking the words..so here is try two.
If any of you have read any of my posts, my marriage is in quite the hard place. I don't feel like we have hardly anything between us right now, but I'd like to work on it, as would he (so he says).
I can't trust the guy, I just can't. I did, up until june, and from june 2nd I've had every bad behavior I've ever seen from him re-appear, every lie, everything and I've had to cope with it all.
Here's my problem. I am big on communication and understanding. I don't even attempt to approach normal problems until I have fully analyzed where I'm right and wrong and what it looks like from his side, and then its a calm approach with a discussion, I hate arguements, I hate fighting, and nothing is solved that way.
Right now, I've dropped the big discussions, the attempts to do things to make us closer and any ideas that we're going to re-learn who we are (his idea) and why we love eachother.
He refuses to cooperate, refuses to discuss, and most of all, shows no improvement in his behavior.
The biggest problem I have, is that no matter what or how, I can't get him to see why I'm hurt. He outright refuses. He tells me I'm ridiculous, over-reacting, dwelling in the past, etc.
I am calm, I am rational, I've tried being angry and yelling. The only advice anyone has given me is to "do it back to him" and I am not that person, I'm better than petty nonsense like that.
so, how do I do it? If he could at least understand the hurt he's caused I'd feel a little more hope. So how do I get him to see what he did for what it is, as apposed to him justifying himself by believing "it could be worse"
It was my birthday, and I called his school to question a notice I'd gotten to find he'd stopped attending in april, and had been leaving 3 times a week for two months to go to "School" and just not going. Then I found my credit card statements, Then he went off on an emotional affiar with one of my friends, then he couldn't be bothered to show up to pick me up from work on time, then he ruined my birthday celebration by flirting with said friend all night, shoving me across the dance floor getting security after him and play slapping to a point where other club goers wanted to step in, then the night he flirted with friend at the bar, on top of what else was going on with her, then throw in the batchelor party details I was lied to about...
and then add on top of it being told I'm not worth giving up the bar, and all the other horrific comments and avoidance tactics.
there are some other details I left out, but that should freshen you up enough to get the general idea; thats been my life from june 2nd, we won't get into the past behaviors..or him re-downloading the program he used when he found the troll in another state and called her trying to "help" her.
If he's not open to listening to you, I don't know if there really is anyone to get him to see how he's hurt you. Is there anyone else in his life that you can enlist to help communicate things to him? someone he trusts and listens to (other than parents maybe??)
You can't force him to do anything. If you and he aren't in the same place about what you feel a marriage should be, your two options are to suck it up, or leave. I wish it weren't that simple.
Communication only works when both people are semi-receptive to it. If he is going through some personal crisis, or an affair, or he's just being a selfish d*ck, you can take the elevated path and try to be happy despite his terrible behavior and hope that one day he'll see the light. Or you can state some boundaries: "I want x, if you aren't willing to do x, then I am going to do y." Y can be leaving, moving into another bedroom, separation, a few weeks apart, etc...
Good luck.
PS: I guess there is a third option (tho the most humiliating). That is to make an effort to make yourself more attractive: Hit the gym, dress better, start going out and not telling him where, be vague, happy, elusive. It's called a 180. You can probably find more info on this site.
Personally, I find this tactic manipulative if you are doing it to "win" him back. It works if you are using it to reclaim your life, and authentically want to improve things FOR YOURSELF. Otherwise you are doing it to compete with other women, and it's a fruitless, humiliating battle.
It is not rocket science to understand why everything he has done is hurtful to you. He enjoys hurting you and you enjoy being hurt. If he did not feign ignorance, he'd have to stop because pretending to hurt you by unintentional default is easier to squeeze out of than hurting you intentionally. So why own up when he's having so much fun doing what he likes and watching you make a fool of yourself trying to explain it all to him. Get it? He makes a fool of you and gets you to make a fool of yourself as a result. This is better than Disneyland.
You enjoy being hurt by him because.....maybe negative attention is better than no attention since having a man is better than not having one. I don't know. I can never explain why women put up with being treated so badly, so I guess you have your reasons. But it appears you enjoy it because you make being right a bigger, more important issue than all the terrible things he has done to you. It's okay that he did these things so long as you make him understand they were hurtful to you.
Forget about making him understand and live with the man you have, or set yourself free of this toxic relationship.
it's not about enjoying being hurt so much as I'd prefer to give this my all.
I didn't get married for nothing, it wasn't some spur of the moment idea, its just isane to me that there is no way to communicate with him about it. I probably just expect too much as far as mutual understanding and respect goes.
CLucas976 - You can 2nd guess your expectations, which is really just a way to make excuses for behavior that is hurtful to you, OR you can make some choices about what you WILL and WILL NOT accept, which allows you to take your power back.
The mistake we all make is that we get too invested in the outcome, and so we buckle and mold ourselves to another person desperately trying to control the outcome, and manipulate them into being what we want them to be. Once you move past that and take a stand on what you will and will not tolerate, you give out being invested in the outcome, and through that stand a much better chance of getting what you want.
it's not about enjoying being hurt so much as I'd prefer to give this my all.
I didn't get married for nothing, it wasn't some spur of the moment idea, its just isane to me that there is no way to communicate with him about it. I probably just expect too much as far as mutual understanding and respect goes.
we're going tonight to sit with his sister and her incredibly soon to be husband (aug 28th) and watch movies she purchased for us that are by a professional marriage counselor and minister who I guess is well known. She seems to think it will help, and I am open to the help and the videos.
For me, I need to know that I put everything into my marriage that I had before I can just walk away, this doesn't mean I have completely turned a blind eye to things. I know my options, I know where my finances stand, and I have multiple living arrangements when and if I decide I need them.
I was really just looking to see if perhaps there was a means of communication I had yet to try.
And for myself, I have already started to focus more on me and my wants and my needs and what not. Considering We already joined a gym together, and he's working his way into the marines, fitness is there, healthy foods, dressing better for work, and spending my time working on who I am vs. being a good wife.
perhaps I've not elaborated enough on whats been going on since I joined this forum and where I've taken your advice and what I'm doing with it.
with any luck the videos will open his mind more, since he is open to them as well.
CLucas976, what everyone is saying without actually saying it is there IS no other means of communication. You both speak English don't you? You said it to him over and over. He understands perfectly but chooses to make you think he does not understand so he can keep doing these things. He just PLAYS clueless because you refuse to get the message it is all a wretched game to him, and he is laughing at you. You both keep going around that bush as if there is something else to accomplish. There isn't. HE DOES UNDERSTAND while you keep stupidly looking for different ways to make him understand your point. The only person not getting it is you.
Get off your high horse. Standing on principle is shaky ground, and you've allowed this guy to make a fool of you long enough. The videos tonight are not going to work either. He has to maintain appearances and keep his game going too, so he will ONCE AGAIN fool you into thinking he finally gets the message; fool you into thinking everything on the video makes so much sense to him. Until his wicked sense of humor finds yet another way to twist your head off again. You are not trying to save your marriage. You are asking him to hurt you again. That is why you like it because you keep doing it and refuse to get the message. One person cannot save a marriage by herself. He enjoys that you keep creating opportunities for him to make a fool of you. He needs that good laugh ever so often. You never fail him.
Get off your high horse. Standing on principle is shaky ground, and you've allowed this guy to make a fool of you long enough. The videos tonight are not going to work either. He has to maintain appearances and keep his game going too, so he will ONCE AGAIN fool you into thinking he finally gets the message; fool you into thinking everything on the video makes so much sense to him. Until his wicked sense of humor finds yet another way to twist your head off again. You are not trying to save your marriage. You are asking him to hurt you again. That is why you like it because you keep doing it and refuse to get the message. One person cannot save a marriage by herself. He enjoys that you keep creating opportunities for him to make a fool of you. He needs that good laugh ever so often. You never fail him.
ha, no need to worry about that, all the "counseling" did was cause angry reactions from him and default aviodance tactics, which caused more frustrations because I pointed them out. The most laughable part being the kids conversation.
Let just say it was interesting at best. We "found out" how we handle conflict, and everything else I've read through this site. ah well, we have to sit through the other two videos as a courtesy to his sister since she is sincerely trying to help, which despite my irritation is nice.
and I'm installing a key logger.
I see your points, I just really try to avoid the idea that I managed to let myself sink so low and be so oblivious and happy for so long all for nothing.
You don't provide anything he wants. If you did, he would care about pleasing you. That doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong; more likely he uses people. And tag, you're it.
Ok guys.. 
