nice777guy

Not sure I have your answer SA. I guess what I would like to know is what kind of lover women really want. Do WOMEN - the real people who count here - think that the Sensual lover is somehow inferior to the Erotic or a more dominant lover?

I would "guess" that most women like a bit of variety and that a good lover would be able to adapt to different styles based upon the mood.

You had also asked earlier about "Man-up" books and whether they mentioned testosterone. The two that I've read (Way of Superior Man and No More Mr Nice Guy), from what I recall, focused much more on environmental or social pressures from society. Not sure I recall testosterone being discussed at length in either book, but I could be forgetting something.

SimplyAmorous

Thank you so much Nice Guy, for at least this reply . I can't speak for all women, of coarse, only myself. I will be the 1st to admit, I would LOVE an Erotic Lover, I know this because I consider myself to be that Type (although I didnt use to be, so I guess people can change- I believe my change is hormonal also), but what I have in my husband is definetely the "Sensual Lover"-luckily he is Not all vanilla & when really HOT , if not had some in days, I can feel the more ravishing spirit in him. Those are the best of times.

If I had to choose between one or the other ALL THE TIME, I do feel I would Choose the Sensual. But Erotic once in a while, OH YES! But remember, I am a woman who 'wants it", loves the adventurous spirit of that. On the bad side, I can honestly say, being this way, I have caused my own husband some grief, he comes away feeling I want the Sex MORE than Him. We Erotics tend to be a little hard to please, even demanding. Does this mean I will loose attraction for him & resent him. Of course not. If the sex stopped, I would definetly say this could happen , but I am very very happy with my more Sensual -more "equal" partner, with the slow hand & the easy touch. His Lover qualities make me feel overwhelmingly LOVED, maybe not as lustily Desired as the Erotic but "Fullfilling in the heart" -kind of Desired.

Yes, variety is the spice of life, it is BLISS.

Thank you for this. I feel that is a shame & these books are lacking in this area then (but I have no doubt they are excellent). My feeling is any book written about being MORE Aggressive should have a decent study on the Hormone that creates this feeling, this Urge to be this way & walk in it. Of coarse Environment plays a role also, how we were raised, but never should we ever downplay the role of HORMONES on our brains & how we act. A high Test guy often needs to temper these urges DOWN, a Lower Test guy needs to Tempter them UP somehow.

Depression, PMS, ADD, we all know these things are REAL, they are also GREATLY hormonal in nature, that is why we have drugs to treat them. Have you ever wondered why women breastfeeding never cares about sex, it is because her Prolactin levels SOARS (they also soar after orgasm), this inhibits sex drive. Men who are deadbeat father are probably lacking Oxytocin, the parenting or Bonding hormone. PEA at low levels can cause Depression , at high levels Psychosis, people with too much Dopamine are easily addicted , from cocaine to gambling, even sex. These hormones all have their good and their bad side, as I showed with Testosterone. Those among us who are balanced in these areas obviously are blessed with our hormones being in fine tune with each other.

Deejo

I will take a shot, based on my own experience. I will also make the statement that it is not my opinion that anybody is trying to put someone else in a box or diminish them in these discussions. We are trying to distill very complex social and sexual interactions down into a few sentences and easy to follow steps.

SA by your own admission, for a very long time you weren't much interested in sex - and at times, treated your husband poorly. My overall impression in what I know of your story, is that YOU changed. Your husband stayed the course. He is who he is - and you came to accept and love him for it. I don't recall if he pursued you for sex. I don't recall if resentment became a factor.

We are looking for what works - plain and simple. We are looking for what works, based upon what went wrong.

In my case, I used to directly tie my sense of worth, and self-identity into whether or not a woman loved me. So ... I consistently tried to elevate my sense of worth by trying to 'make' my spouse love me. When it started to falter, I tried harder - and she continued to move away. My behavior yielded the absolute opposite result of what I expected, but it was the only behavior I knew, so I kept at it.

I have since learned new behaviors. Behaviors that have undone my previously skewed perception, and have taught me valuable lessons in my new endeavors into relationships.

On to the bedroom ...

I like your descriptions below, but again in essence, aren't they putting people into a box? I think we tend to fluctuate between the two. I think the longer term the relationship and the greater the compatibility of the partners, the relationship will establish a dynamic leaning primarily towards one of these two models.

BBW and his wife have an erotic sexual relationship. You have a sensual sexual relationship with your husband. Everybody involved in the enterprise seems pretty good with the two dynamics. I would venture that both couples, or any healthy couple, occasionally crosses over from one to the other.

In my case, I am both. My relationship with my stbx went on a straight trajectory from EROTIC sex to SENSUAL sex - then there is a third category UTILITARIAN sex. You are in trouble when you're in the third category. And a lot of us end up there. I don't ever want to be there again. It's why I value these discussions.

I don't think a man who is a sensual lover is any less than a man who is a sexual Tyranosaurus. Again, to me, sex is about dynamics. The dynamic is established because it is what the participants strive towards - the essence of what BBW is saying. The cornerstone of any intimate relationship is sex. Period. It's why we become 'intimate'.

"Sexual domination by a man, this is the core of the sexual structure ..."
Males are hardwired to pursue sex. We'd be down several billion as a species were that not in fact the case.

"...a woman strives to be dominated."
The female submits to, and has sex with the partner that wins her over. The partner that she desires. Consenting to sex remains straightforward and a simple matter for as long as the male continues to display desirable traits. Some of those desirable traits fall into the buckets of alpha or dominant behavior (responsibility, success, aggressiveness, confidence, certainty, dependability, steadfastness)

In my last two, long-term relationships the sexual dynamic got to the place where the 'sexual structure' was on it's head. I certainly wasn't trying to be undesirable, but the closer I tried to get, the more I tried to interact with, share my emotions, please, or demonstrate commitment to my partner - the less she wanted to have sex. If I had to sum up my core issue, I was too accomodating, too tolerant, and too available. Yes, I was 'nice'. Neither woman would describe me as a whimp. I actually think that both would have good things ... nice things to say about me. My bottom line is that I would rather they are attracted to, and find me desirable, than find me well behaved, well mannered, a good provider and father. I am those things, but they don't much matter if my partner isn't interested in sleeping with me. I am no less the man that either woman fell in love with, but I behaved in a manner that neither maintained, nor increased their desire for me.

Where your husband stayed the course, and you came to appreciate, accept, and love him for who he is, my partners pulled away and looked elsewhere for desire.

I for one am not going to argue with what works. What I was doing wasn't working. I'm kicking some new tires, and the changes I have implemented so far have benefited me as an individual, and I believe will make me a better partner in my next LTR.

SimplyAmorous

I really apprecaite your explantion here, it does not offend my senses.

Yes, you are correct, I changed more than my husband did. He has remained the same -always tried & true. Thankfully, we always had a wonderful marraige, I simply did not know he was sufferng sexually cause he just didn't talk about it (until I started asking questions). He never complained, for all I knew, he was happy with once a week. He liked mornings, I liked nights but often he was fast asleep by the time I put my book down. He secretly hated my books. He should have spoken up. So we missed alot of opportunitues I guess.

Looking back, I do feel he FELT his self -esteem was wrapped up in how much I WANTED HIM, so he simply waited for me to come around to him many times.

I am different than other women, I am NOT one to pull away from Doting, closeness or kindness, I love these things, my husband did nothing wrong here (as many of you feel this pushed away your woman) - His only blunder was skewed communication, because of what he heard other places... do her dishes, help her around the house, then you'll get more sex ...WHAT?? That might work for an "Acts of service" wife, but that is NOT me, that is almost silly to me. He needed to "open up" with me , express his longings through words & more touch, not supress them. That is where he failed. But never once did I want anyone else.

So yeah, our little story is not the norm by any means.

Just like too much doting and attention can turn a woman off, not enough can turn her away also (for a small minority like myself). I will agree he could have learned some lessons from these Balls books about Assertivenss and persuing with confidence back in the day.

But aren't we all Living and Learning. Which books do you most recommend about this subject? I do plan to buy at least one. He will never read it but he lets me read him anything-which I do often. Not to get on BBW , but I once read my husband one of his posts & he looks at me & says "He is a Bragger" and starts talking about these guys at work that talk like that.

I am not saying He brags, so dont jump on me, anyone who is full of confidence and assurance of WHAT WORKS has the ability to come off this way. But I still found it very funny that he said that to me.

cherrypie18

Made me think of the discovery channel, where they show how the female chooses who to mate with. It's always the male who either wins the fight, or has the biggest nest etc.

I don't think we're all that very different from animals, we just put a lot more thought into things and forget about our instincts. Consciousness is simply what separates us from the beasts.

Deejo

I tried this. I think a lot of resigned married guys fall into this category. I let her take the lead. Let me know when you are comfortable and ready - because I'm tired of being rejected and by being patient and understanding, you think you are being a great guy. She did nothing for the next 90 days, and I kept my mouth shut. It does a number on men. I don't think many women are, or want to be aware of how damaging consistently refusing sex is. Instead, it becomes a punch-line. My ex used sex as a means of passive aggressive control. I will NEVER allow this dynamic to occur in another relationship.

Prior to my blowing a gasket in our marriage, my wife would have also said, "I didn't want anyone else." The issue was, she didn't want me either. Of course once she became emotionally engaged and attached to TOM, she was again fully invested in EROTIC sex. But like clockwork, the more their relationship has settled into a pattern of normal - I'm pretty confident that the physical side of their relationship has dropped precipitously. It was simply more fun when she didn't have to think about what it was and what it meant.

My LL is also physical touch. Her's distinctly was not. Hers I believe would be 'words of affirmation', which as our marriage got stuck, and I would implement, she merely saw as a ruse for sex. It was an extraordinarily damaged dynamic.



You simply cannot go wrong with "No More Mr. Nice Guy"

That's what every red-blooded 'women are gentle creatures who should be placed on a pedestal and revered' nice guy would also believe. It sounds arrogant, sexist, and disrespectful. I thought it too, way back in 08. What he had to say about behavior and attraction was antithetical to what I had been taught and believed about women and relationships. I don't think that BBW is any of those things. By his own admission he decided to make changes when his own marriage and sex life was sinking. I don't think that either he, nor MEM are here to score cool points. They talk about what worked for them, what they believe, and why they believe it. They are in a 20+ year marriages with a great sex life. I had a deteriorating 10 year marriage with a wife that decided to screw the handyman.

I looked into what they were saying. As it turns out, lots of others were saying the same thing. I bought a pickup artist book and decided I had nothing to lose by implementing these behaviors. I was seeing someone at the time. Up to that point, I was being 'proper and respectable'. I was still waiting for queues from her that it was ok to 'go for it'. After 4 dates we were still at the peck on the cheek stage. We had date #5 after I read the book. I went for it. EVERYTHING changed. It was all I needed to be sold.

Deejo

Bad Touch - The Bloodhound Gang

BigBadWolf

SimplyAmorous,

Although I watch this thread with interest, you are correct as I have expressed that I am not quick to share the details of my own sexual relationship with my wife.

This is simply because it is ours and our alone, and my wife has expressed many times it is nothing in her interest to share what is ours. So that is why on details, even in anonymous marriage forums, I remain distant on details.

As well, nothing I share at this board is necessary for such details. For to be sure, the things I experience with my wife, are not going to be welcome with many other couples.

I am not here to contribue to some erotic novel, or bdsm fantasy, or any of these other things which yes, are shadows of reality.

And absolutely I prefer and expect reality, and so should every good man and woman reading at this forum, they should expect nothing less in this life that to truly pursue and discover their own happiness and bliss.

Yes, there are experiences in my life even this very week and this very day, way beyond social acceptance, way beyond legal acceptance, and would be shocking or off putting to the many ladies and some men and/or the young people that read these posts.

And that would be a shame, as it would merely be a distraction to the real point of all this.

The point being, that attitude, actions, and behavior, these are what are needing to be in place in the proper context.

The details, the good men and women will fill in their own details, some less than, some greater than, any of the details that I could fill in and that is what is proper and beneficial.

I am on this forum, because last year as a part of my own reflection of 20 years married anniversary, I decided on a whim to see what the online forums were all about in regards to marriage and advice and other happiness.

Needless to say I was horrified to spend even a first few minutes of reading this website, of bad advice heaped on more bad advice, thread after thread, page after page!

So that is why I was interested to create an acount, to share a glimpse here and there what is without disptue working, and hopefully to put out a few fires in the process where I saw nothing less than the equivalent of trying to put out a house fire by pouring on kerosene and dried wood and being absolutely astounded at the bad results.

So for your questions, the erotic or sensual lover?

Yes, both of course.

And do not miss this, for the record, mostly in my mind and preference it is sensual. I have spent many hours to study Kama Sutra and embrace many elements of the philosophy and teachings, learning the power of intimacy, of creating arousal and enjoying orgasms "riding the wave" indeed, often without much actual touching at all with incredible results.

As well, when the time is needing, be sure I am not going to hold back to be aggresive, or to have shown at times very much what you have mentioned, hair pulling, wrestling, outright brutishness, etc etc, producing in my woman wild orgasm upon wild orgasm, indeed the most passionate and primal orgasms are this way. But know this is not going to be proper all the time, nor would it be proper anytime it is not embraced fully by myself and my wife, this aggresive side.

But the point is, this cause and effect is without dispute, when my woman has seen this side of me, and I have seen that side of her, this is not quickly forgotten between us.

So this experience translate to sexual respect, and this respect spills out of the rest of the relationship, so in this way, outside the bedroom, the fitness tests for example, they are either non issues or quickly resolved mostly without much speaking.

So this is just what it is, not to bore or offend with the details, but to share the cause and effect of the actions and behaviors that any couple can choose to explore and create for themselves for their own happiness and bliss their own primal and passionate and erotic and sensual sexual relationships!

MEM11363

The proactive approach:

This whole cycle of sexual rejection and then ignoring your partner never happened to us. BUT we had a painful cycle that lasted a couple years. Two long painful years. I was skinny - and not edgy/driven. Perhaps a shrink would say I was mildly depressed. The lack of muscle mass plus the lack of edge KILLED her desire. While that was obvious at some level. I still insisted on sex once every 5 days or so. Not as in forcing her physically - I would never do that. I simply said "once every five days is the minimum frequency I will tolerate" full stop. Less is not acceptable.

And I don't say "not acceptable" unless I am dead serious. So "not acceptable" means there will be some clear and definitive consequence unless the situation is resolved in a way that I find tolerable. So she never questioned the 5 day rule. And fortunately even though her baseline desire level was impaired she was still able to "let me get her in the mood". And she was committed enough and RESPECTED me enough to do that. She was NOT "in love" with me at that time. And frankly that is on me, not her.

Looking back she gets an A+ in commitment. And frankly I get a B in restraint. I actually wanted sex more often than that, but chose not to push, even though I could have successfully done so - because I knew what was happening and felt I needed to suck it up to.

That said - even though I am in love with, and cannot imagine EVER divorcing my W. I absolutely am willing/able and practiced at detaching myself emotionally when she gets so far outside her swim lane that she is no longer even in the pool. And sexually well - she is keenly aware of my viewpoint. When she had pelvic inflammation for 2 months she got support, love and patience. I got lots of offers for alternative sexual entertainment from her and accepted about half of them.

But were she to lose her desire for me - truly lose it - and not want to have sex. I would take a lover until she regained her desire - or have a lover open ended. The same option would be available to her in reverse. FWIW we have actually had this conversation - it was a "what do you think is fair" type discussion we had a few months ago purely because I was curious as to her viewpoint. Of course it was easy for her to agree with me as for the last 2 years she has been in love with me and can't imagine that changing.

Some folks will say that I am not committed. That I don't really take my vows seriously if I have this view. I am fine with that. These are MY rules for ME and MY marriage. My W has right of first refusal on my body. Always has, always will. If she chooses to "pass" on her right, she forfeits the "right" to demand the total sexual exclusivity she currently enjoys.

And ultimately this is the reverse logic that makes our marriage work like a hyper-extended honeymoon. Because there is that same flavor of behavioral fear/excitement you have in dating. Think about it - why do people behave so well when dating. They are afraid that if they treat their bf/gf poorly it will end. Entwined in that fear is a type of excitement that many/MOST people lose when they "catch/trap" their mate in a lifetime commitment. Neither of us ever tolerated that chronic and widespread disease of indifference. That "now that we are married no longer have to put effort into the relationship".

This isn't the "walking on eggshells" anxiety of "is he/she going to break up with me". We have our share of mistakes, arguments, tension. Those things are part of life with two strong willed people. But there is a gigantic chasm separating "mistakes" and choices. Saying something stupid is a mistake. Forgetting to run an errand - no problem. But a pattern of indifference to your partners needs, THAT is a choice. And soon as either of us starts doing that, the other notices. And after a short grace period the person getting deprioritized - starts to ratchet up their reaction.

This is the "cat" model of interaction. My cat has 4 modes:
- CUTE: cuddly and purring
- WARNING: - he does this by firmly grabbing your hand/foot and holding it in place with his teeth. This doesn't hurt but it definitely gets your attention
- LAST CHANCE: he now places his claws - fully extended on your hand/foot - holding you in place. You can still defuse him fairly easily by rubbing his cheek. In which case he lets go.
- WE'RE ON: he inserts his claws into your flesh and rends

I would say his behavior mirrors our behavior with each other. Very clear, very deliberate. You know exactly where you stand at any point. "Not acceptable" is my version of "last chance".

Trenton

So many airs of fill in the blank with whatever air you choose to display.

If we truly wanted to help one another we would be bluntly honest and yet even on a semi-anonymous forum we feel we must be careful with the words we choose. It is no wonder we struggle as couples and with ourselves.

I am an honest person by nature, deeply honest and deeply personal from the get go. I realize quickly it makes others uncomfortable. Many have told me I lack that editor most people have.

BBW you think that a man must be the dominant partner with a female being submissive. This is your claim to marriage fame. Yet, you are unwilling to go into details. It's hard for me to really decide what is going on without details, just as it is hard for me to decide if what you are saying is true or the ramblings of a hardcore male looking to create a pack of wolves.

In all honesty, I will say that as a woman I struggle with a desire to be heard and recognized as well as submissive with my husband. That's the crux of the issue for me. I have an innate desire to please but would also like to be considered as important and this is the balance couples need to see (in my opinion of course).

I will give you an honest example of this. My husband and I are throwing a Halloween party soon. It is for adults and we want it to be fun. I was debating over which costume I should buy. I came home with a Leg Avenue costume that was short and revealing. I thought it was a great time to feel sexy at a party for both my husband and for myself. I tried the costume on for my husband. This ended in unadulterated sex followed by a comment from him that made it clear he wouldn't want me to dress this way at a party where all of our adult friends and family would be.

Now I happily submitted to the "dirty" sex with me playing a fairy tale character in a short skirt wanting to be dominated. It felt good and I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the immediate attention from my husband. Was there spankings involved...there were and since it was from a man that I adore it felt like a gift rather than a punishment. At the same time, afterwards, I felt controlled as I was annoyed I couldn't wear this costume for the Halloween party.

I exchanged the costume for Snow White from the same maker and it is also rather racy but not as revealing. I tried it on with the same blissful reaction...besides considering buying stock in Leg Avenue costumes...I realized that women might underestimate their sexual power as we see ourselves as ourselves and far more multi-faceted than this alone.

My husband agreed that I could go as Snow White. He said it was still revealing but it would do. Fine. I am happy and he is happy. This works for us.

My point is, it's about compromise every step of the way. Both partners in whatever relations they have must feel as if they are getting what they want from the relationship.

My main problem with your gospel is that it is one sided. You advocate a clear dominance/submission role. This can't, nor should it, work for everyone. There are times when I am dominant and my husband is submissive. We both believe at our core that the other is worthy of worship.

What I am saying is that in order for anything to work between the sexes both sexes must be included, considered and respected. It is like anything in life. It is about balance.

greenpearl

Sounds like everybody is serious now!!!!!

I like all the posts above!!!!!!!

Everybody should read them!!!!!!!!

They are all good!!!!!!!!!!

Ha ha ha ha, you guys can keep on sharing sex details, I am going to spank my husband's butt and let him spank me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trenton

Mem, never would I agree to sexual relations outside of our marriage. That is my deal breaker. I would look at my husband and all worship would dwindle away to nothing. If he can't be faithful in all of our up's and down's then I don't want to be with him on the up's or the down's. Again, this is me and this is him. He wouldn't tolerate it either. Sex has never been a problem for us at any stage of our marriage but if it is ever a problem and either one steps outside of the marriage we both recognize our deep, singular yet collective, connection would be gone.

greenpearl

You guys teach MEN to MAN UP and grow balls, it is important for their welfare. But please also teach them not to cheat, it is important for our welfare.

Men, problems? Women, problems?

Women, open your legs and let your men have some fun. It isn't a big deal. Better than them fishing else where. And don't crush your men's balls because what you get is nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And don't try those MMF, FFM, or GROUP, you are only going to burn your ass!!!!!

SimplyAmorous

You know what, I am going to stick up for MEM here ! I too have had this conversation with MY husband. These days, with the way I feel, if he decided he was not "into" me & the sex dwindled down pathetically, I have as much told him I would NOT be able to handle this, I am very WEAK & most likely, in my desperation (as I won't beg) I would probably find myself a Lover. Again, this is NOT our situation, I can recall only 1 time in 21 yrs he was not "up" for having sex when I wanted him , so this is all talk. He does not feel the same as me (saying he would not take another) but he "accepts" that I feel this way, he understands it, and I guess it is not a threat to him as he feels the same as me, desiring a frequent sex life.

All marraiges have rules, maybe some are not spoken but maybe they SHOULD BE, they might be UNacceptable to others, but is that really our concern. It is only our spouse who matters here. Not that I would share this with my Preacher mind you, but an anonymous forum, why not!! It truly IS how I feel and I bet many many do also, they just do not speak it out of their mouths or never come to this place- Thankfully -to know what they are capable of.

Kinda like how BBW feels about what he & wife does in the bedroom- I personally would NEVER judge, he is greatly blessed to find a wife who LOVES what he LOVES & enjoys that WILD form of sexual play- that he fully admits others MAY have a problem with. Who are we?

Getting back to what MEM said to his wife - Better to lay these things out on the table then blindly "assume" these things don't matter , find yourself in that situation & secretly cheat behind the others back- that is what you will most find time & time & time again on this forum. Weak men & women who can not acknowlege their weaknesses. Those who talk about all of this BEFORE hand & truly understand the WHY's behind our feelings, why we say these things, this is a Bless-id thing. We then KNOW our hand in the marriage, what our spouses NEED from us AND the consequences of taking this for granted. I simply couldn't agree more -with that approach (but it helps if your spouse is not a grudge holder & is humble & understanding)


Me & my husband have other agreements that many would frown/disagree with >>> neither of us gaining too much weight (others will scream "you are shallow-that is not love!"), We go to a certain Strip club together occasionally (women will say "Are you out of your mind!), My husband does not mind me having GUY friends (many men would not allow this, my husband has never cared as I never gave him reason too). BUt in doing all these things, we have BOUNDARIES (much talked about), if he starts fantasing about some stripper over me, that will be the END of that form of entertainment. I allow this cause he is a doting ever faithful husband & not the obsessive type, and if I start fantasing about a male friend, that will also be THE END, as it should be.

WOW - I absolutely KNEW you were an Erotic, a Tyrannosaurus Lover like Deejo said ! but darn, sounds like well beyond my imagination!! Thank you for sharing this bit of yourself with us. I have no problem with anything you say here , of coarse I am very intreged, but hey, so long as your wife is INTO this type of aggression, Good for you both!! We ought to all strive to do what turns each other on --always!

Maybe you just LIVE out your sexual fantasies, whereas for the majority of us they only "reside in the mind". Even being a Dominant Erotic in the most normal sense is a problem for my husband, He knows I would LOVE for him to throw me down on the bed, push me up against the wall, all those Aggressive lusty moves that I mention in an earlier post, but he is not comfortable doing these things, he even went as far as saying it makes him think of Rape , stuff he has seen on Tv & says he would like to kill those men. Not sure what I am supposed to do with that! Thankfully I can remain content with my Sensual Lover. Strangely enough, He loves when I do those aggressive things to him.



I appreciate this as now I do not feel YOU judge the Sensual Lover, I really was getting the impression you did with some of the way you word things, and you having such a HIGH "Following" on this forum with men, I really didn't want to have a problem with you, as I have always enjoyed reading your posts. So I thank you for clarifying.



Well now you are a NEW MAN Deejo !! And this won't happen anymore, you have learned the secrets to a man's soul. And to his womans! Good for you, if these books can expose this kind of Hogwash in dealing with such situations, believe me, I am ALLLLLL for them.

I asked my husband this morning, who in the world told you to do my dishes in hopes you will get more sex - he says he looked it up on the internet. I just laughed, I asked him if the article said you should 1st talk to your wife & state how you FEEL. I don’t know why he couldn't go there. I do recall him joking with friends while I was there about being a NUN at times & me jokingly back "All men want is sex". I don’t know where my head was at in those days(kids , house, God). Really. But even he admits , I rarely outright denied him. RARELY. I can recall only once him ASKING me for a hand job out of desperation, and I was glad to do it. The point being, he didnt ask.

I think Mem's approach would have darn well moved mountains for us - basically laying it on the line and saying what he NEEDED from me. But I will say, I was never like your wife as you described above, I personally could not go a week without dying for it myself, so my husband's wait was never more than 7 days (except for after having a baby, even then I never waited for the Doc's ok). He knew if he could wait it out, I would soon be ALL OVER HIM, I think me coming on to him made the experience more heavenly somehow, otherwise he felt he was bothering me (which he was not). I remember wondering about his sex drive, I used to think he would want his sleep MORE than me waking him up, but that was never the case. Funny thing is, Even then Physical touch was still my primary Love Language even back then, I wanted my back scratched every single night, he would also caress my hair while we watched movies for hours, I loved this-still do - but I never made the connection to how much I NEEDED this other physical touch till I hit my 40's.

Thank you all for digging a little deeper into my personal questions here. Excuse us women for entering the Men's Cluibhouse.

Deejo

Women are always welcome. Clothing optional, of course.