If a man gives a woman everything she says she wants, becomes the nice guy, helps with the housework, compromises on his own career, helps with the kids, and still his woman ends up bored, full of angst, taking depression medication, no sex, nagging, and then from the blue ends up having a full blown PA with her boss, to most men why this happens is somewhat confusing.
This quotation highlights the problem I see in the arguments about what constitutes a "nice guy."
"Giving a woman everything she wants" is the problem--NOT doing housework, making career choices that support family life, or doing his fair share with the kids (who are, after all, just as much his responsibility as hers). "Giving a woman everything she wants" usually means, having no backbone, refusing to take a stand, and letting the FEAR of being left alone guide his every decision.
If a man does housework or childcare b/c he is trying to be a nice guy--not because he has a deep conviction it is essential to true parnership--then he does it out of weakness, not strength. If he REFUSES to do housework, etc., b/c he thinks it is "unmanly," then he is equally weak--in the clutch of outdated AND historically inaccurate stereotypes.
I know men who do every bit as much at home as their wives, who do it as a matter of course, who never "help" but rather, assume responsibility. And they do not let their wives walk all over them. They know as much as she does about the family's needs, so they will take a stand to defend their position in a disagreement--not "bow" to her b/c she is female, or out of fear of making her angry. They are married to women who are just the same--able to recognize that femaleness does not give some instintive right to more power over home and children, able to recognize and value logical discourse. Such couples rarely reach a critical stalemate b/c they have such deep respect, as well as love and lust, for each other.
Seeing women, as a group, as more emotional and naturally "submissive," is inherently sexist--because you are classifying them by their sex. Women get called "more emotional" when, in fact, all they tend to do (because it is more socially acceptable) is EXPRESS their feelings more openly. Men have just as many feelings as women (we are the same species, after all), although men are socialized to express their emotions less freely and, when they do, to express them in forms of aggression (anger, particularly).
Let's not confuse socially-guided behaviors with biology. That goes for testosterone, too. More T makes one horny (lots of women who have been pregnant with boys can attest to that). Our society teaches people how to channel extra energy; we do not have an "instinct" that tells us to weep rather than rage (if it was instinct, it would be seen 100% of the time with no exceptions).
We have started to leave behind a world in which women and men were assumed to have certain characteristics by virtue of their biology. Historical and cross-cultural studies have demonstrated, again and again, the falseness of such claims--behaviors assumed to be "inherent" to female physiology, for example, were absent in different times/places. The logical conclusion, then, is that those behaviors were culturally specific and people were socialized into culturally acceptable behaviors--ie, it wasn't biology.
So if you think your problem was in being a "nice guy," then think again. Maybe you just need to understand that being "nice" doesn't mean being spineless. And it certainly does not mean being "p*ssy-whipped." Have enough confidence to believe that you are worthwhile and desirable, and act that way. THAT'S attractive!
We are all here trying to help, not to take shot at each other.
Some women like powerful men, some women like gentlemen. Some women like rich life style, some women like simple life style, we are all different. If there is cure for mankind's problems, this world will be peaceful and beautiful.
I do think men should stand up for themselves and don't spoil their women too much. The more you give in, the more she wants. Vice versa.
But the sad part here is, when a man isn't happy in a marriage, he leaves, he can still support himself financially. But if a woman is in a sad marriage, I mean she had been a good woman all along, she doesn't have much bargain power. She is financially dependent.
Read so many posts, man want to leave, but they don't need to worry about money. How about women, if they divorce, they have to start worrying about money right away, especially if they have kids.
A lot of women are stuck in unhappy marriages too, their men are just irresponsible as what you can call, I don't want to make a list, they are stuck, they are unhappy, they are drying without sex. What can they do?
Life is not easy, if you want something easy, don't become human.
He is holding back, because he doesn't want to be confused with a rapist coward.
Find subtle ways to show he has nothing to worry about.
Oh Big Bad Wolf, I was SOOOO afraid this would be the result of me talking about these things!! I suspected it would come to this again.
Listen, I can NOT stress to you enough, I simply can not, you do not know me of coarse, but IF you did and you KNEW my husband, you knew us together, seen our relationship, YOU would seriously believe & trust that I have done EVERYTHING possible, beyond the normal means for allowing my husband to "be himself, come out of his shell" -that he indeed would have NOTHING to worry about - with me. Without knowing me personally, I guess you won't believe it. But what can I say, it is simply not that! He is who he is. He is not hiding anything from me. I do not feel he has this fear at all. And he would NEVER feel that I would see him as a rapist. Never.
It really isn't these things.
And NO, he does NOT have these kinds of fantasies, not the Dominant kind you speak of. A while back, I have started a whole thread about Men preferring Dominant women, these are more his fantasies. I have been with this man for 28 yrs , I know HIM inside & out. Now what I dont want to hear from you is that my husband is some kind of freak. I probably wanted assurance from other men on this forum, that this is "normal "-- BECAUSE OF YOUR POSTS!
I know this, when we 1st started watching porn together, one of the BIGGEST turn ons for him was Jennie Jameson all dressed in Red in some Dominatrix outfit with a whip or something. I am sorry, this is what "does it" for my husband!! I have asked, we have shared, we talk about it all, When it comes to fantasys, he has little to say, he just mentions Strippers and he says I fullfill them all. Maybe if he wasn't having SO much sex, he would have more, I don't know! It is claimed that the "sexually starved" usually write the best Romance novels. Got to be something to that, their imaginations/fantasys are burning for release.
Trust me, I want MORE of an answer from him, I fish for it, he is not one to close up-push me away, he tries but in honesty he simply claims he does not feel that way.
Listen, I know your intentions are well, but it is NOT going to do ME any good to believe He is inferior to other men, or for me to try to change what HE IS, what turns him on. For a time, I tried , was that ever beating my head against the wall !! I won't go there again.
MEN, they simply are not all the same, maybe the majority, but sexually, their can be some outside the box. I mean, Heck, we have gay men, I know they do not have the same fantasies!! I know he is NOT gay by any means.
I mean, he may have smaller , less dominate fantasies but not these "dark primal aggressive" kind you speak of.
I know you won't agree, but I still feel that hormonally, his having low normal testosterone levels is the answer behind this. Testosterone promotes Fantasy and Aggression & Sexual desire. This is simply fact.
Now here is MY bet.... but I doubt I will ever get to see the comparison -as he may never accually NEED Testosterone Treatment. But if we took an inventory of his sexaul thoughts, fantasys & how HOT his desire is NOW --then put him on Testosterone injections or patches, I bet you anything in this world, his fantasies will take a whole new realm that would even surprise him, his Desire will be MORE OFTEN AND MORE EROTIC in nature, he would even become aggressive in a way I never seen before. I have heard both men & women talk about the changes after treatment, with some new benefits sexually - but unwanted benefits in aggression. So I know this to be truth.
Women who do not fantasize also are probably lacking in testosterone in compared to Nymphos.
Why I am so hellbent on you accepting this is beyond me, I guess I enjoy the challenge- and that you are Mr Big Bad Wolf. My husband is still a "Good" man despite this thing you can not understand.
SA,
I think you and I are of like mind on this topic. As for what I said to my W that day about getting a GF, had she pulled a Trenton and tried to give me the "I don't think I will ever be able to forgive you for saying that" I would have simply responded by telling her I was just giving her an honest and definitive explanation of what was going to happen. If she couldn't get "past" my telling her that I was ok with taking a lover if she didn't want to "play" anymore I would have just shrugged. Not my problem. I didn't initiate the conversation and I don't have it in me to sneak around. Not my style.
And as I have said before her comment was made "out of the blue". Meaning we had been having frequent (and I thought mutually enjoyable) sex up until a day or two before her statement that she did not desire me.
As for the folks who say "well if you are going to do THAT then you should divorce" I have an answer that may or may not make sense. I promised my father in-law on my wedding day that I would take good care of his daughter. He was an incredible guy. I fully intend to continue making good on that promise. So I would not divorce her. If she chose to shut off sex and then divorce me for taking a lover, that would be 100 percent on her.
Really though she knows all this. I am 100 percent certain that if I had said "well if you stop having sex with me, I am filing for divorce" THAT would have been a far, far more hurtful thing to her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
You know what, I am going to stick up for MEM here ! I too have had this conversation with MY husband. These days, with the way I feel, if he decided he was not "into" me & the sex dwindled down pathetically, I have as much told him I would NOT be able to handle this, I am very WEAK & most likely, in my desperation (as I won't beg) I would probably find myself a Lover. Again, this is NOT our situation, I can recall only 1 time in 21 yrs he was not "up" for having sex when I wanted him , so this is all talk. He does not feel the same as me (saying he would not take another) but he "accepts" that I feel this way, he understands it, and I guess it is not a threat to him as he feels the same as me, desiring a frequent sex life.
All marraiges have rules, maybe some are not spoken but maybe they SHOULD BE, they might be UNacceptable to others, but is that really our concern. It is only our spouse who matters here. Not that I would share this with my Preacher mind you, but an anonymous forum, why not!! It truly IS how I feel and I bet many many do also, they just do not speak it out of their mouths or never come to this place- Thankfully -to know what they are capable of.
Kinda like how BBW feels about what he & wife does in the bedroom- I personally would NEVER judge, he is greatly blessed to find a wife who LOVES what he LOVES & enjoys that WILD form of sexual play- that he fully admits others MAY have a problem with. Who are we?
Getting back to what MEM said to his wife - Better to lay these things out on the table then blindly "assume" these things don't matter , find yourself in that situation & secretly cheat behind the others back- that is what you will most find time & time & time again on this forum. Weak men & women who can not acknowlege their weaknesses. Those who talk about all of this BEFORE hand & truly understand the WHY's behind our feelings, why we say these things, this is a Bless-id thing. We then KNOW our hand in the marriage, what our spouses NEED from us AND the consequences of taking this for granted. I simply couldn't agree more -with that approach (but it helps if your spouse is not a grudge holder & is humble & understanding)
Me & my husband have other agreements that many would frown/disagree with >>> neither of us gaining too much weight (others will scream "you are shallow-that is not love!"), We go to a certain Strip club together occasionally (women will say "Are you out of your mind!), My husband does not mind me having GUY friends (many men would not allow this, my husband has never cared as I never gave him reason too). BUt in doing all these things, we have BOUNDARIES (much talked about), if he starts fantasing about some stripper over me, that will be the END of that form of entertainment. I allow this cause he is a doting ever faithful husband & not the obsessive type, and if I start fantasing about a male friend, that will also be THE END, as it should be.
WOW - I absolutely KNEW you were an Erotic, a Tyrannosaurus Lover like Deejo said ! but darn, sounds like well beyond my imagination!! Thank you for sharing this bit of yourself with us. I have no problem with anything you say here , of coarse I am very intreged, but hey, so long as your wife is INTO this type of aggression, Good for you both!! We ought to all strive to do what turns each other on --always!
Maybe you just LIVE out your sexual fantasies, whereas for the majority of us they only "reside in the mind". Even being a Dominant Erotic in the most normal sense is a problem for my husband, He knows I would LOVE for him to throw me down on the bed, push me up against the wall, all those Aggressive lusty moves that I mention in an earlier post, but he is not comfortable doing these things, he even went as far as saying it makes him think of Rape , stuff he has seen on Tv & says he would like to kill those men. Not sure what I am supposed to do with that! Thankfully I can remain content with my Sensual Lover. Strangely enough, He loves when I do those aggressive things to him.
I appreciate this as now I do not feel YOU judge the Sensual Lover, I really was getting the impression you did with some of the way you word things, and you having such a HIGH "Following" on this forum with men, I really didn't want to have a problem with you, as I have always enjoyed reading your posts. So I thank you for clarifying.
Well now you are a NEW MAN Deejo !! And this won't happen anymore, you have learned the secrets to a man's soul. And to his womans! Good for you, if these books can expose this kind of Hogwash in dealing with such situations, believe me, I am ALLLLLL for them.
I asked my husband this morning, who in the world told you to do my dishes in hopes you will get more sex - he says he looked it up on the internet. I just laughed, I asked him if the article said you should 1st talk to your wife & state how you FEEL. I don’t know why he couldn't go there. I do recall him joking with friends while I was there about being a NUN at times & me jokingly back "All men want is sex". I don’t know where my head was at in those days(kids , house, God). Really. But even he admits , I rarely outright denied him. RARELY. I can recall only once him ASKING me for a hand job out of desperation, and I was glad to do it. The point being, he didnt ask.
I think Mem's approach would have darn well moved mountains for us - basically laying it on the line and saying what he NEEDED from me. But I will say, I was never like your wife as you described above, I personally could not go a week without dying for it myself, so my husband's wait was never more than 7 days (except for after having a baby, even then I never waited for the Doc's ok). He knew if he could wait it out, I would soon be ALL OVER HIM, I think me coming on to him made the experience more heavenly somehow, otherwise he felt he was bothering me (which he was not). I remember wondering about his sex drive, I used to think he would want his sleep MORE than me waking him up, but that was never the case. Funny thing is, Even then Physical touch was still my primary Love Language even back then, I wanted my back scratched every single night, he would also caress my hair while we watched movies for hours, I loved this-still do - but I never made the connection to how much I NEEDED this other physical touch till I hit my 40's.
Thank you all for digging a little deeper into my personal questions here. Excuse us women for entering the Men's Cluibhouse.
We are all here trying to help, not to take shot at each other.
I must have missed the shot. Greenpearl, I do not see any of this as arguring at all, or fighting. It is simply learning. I absolutely LOVE debate, or I should call it a challenge to the mind. I love to hear others opionions, hear their stories, even when I might not agree, sometimes I want to read those ones MORE so, so I can add something , even if very small, to the conversation to bring another persceptive. This is all good!!
I must have missed the shot. Greenpearl, I do not see any of this as arguring at all, or fighting. It is simply learning. I absolutely LOVE debate, or I should call it a challenge to the mind. I love to hear others opionions, hear their stories, even when I might not agree, sometimes I want to read those ones MORE so, so I can add something , even if very small, to the conversation to bring another persceptive. This is all good!!
As usualy, you type out much facts and truth I agree with, with only a point or two in contention between us.
For instance, to say a "nice guy" is these things:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisters359
"Giving a woman everything she wants" is the problem--NOT doing housework, making career choices that support family life, or doing his fair share with the kids (who are, after all, just as much his responsibility as hers). "Giving a woman everything she wants" usually means, having no backbone, refusing to take a stand, and letting the FEAR of being left alone guide his every decision.
And these things:
Quote:
If a man does housework or childcare b/c he is trying to be a nice guy--not because he has a deep conviction it is essential to true parnership--then he does it out of weakness, not strength.
Are correct.
Then I see something like this:
Quote:
If he REFUSES to do housework, etc., b/c he thinks it is "unmanly," then he is equally weak--in the clutch of outdated AND historically inaccurate stereotypes.
Which is only a half truth, combined with some notion of being "outdated" or something that I assume means something to you.
Outdated or not, there is nothing, NOTHING sexually attractive to a woman to see her man behaving as another woman, or for a man to see a woman trying to behave as a man.
Quote:
Seeing women, as a group, as more emotional and naturally "submissive," is inherently sexist--because you are classifying them by their sex.
So?
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Let's not confuse socially-guided behaviors with biology.
If we were to do that, we would have no need for marriage help forums as these.
Quote:
We have started to leave behind a world in which women and men were assumed to have certain characteristics by virtue of their biology.
Perhaps a world where divorce rates climb to over 50%, and that's not considering the many sexually negligent relationships where one or more of the spouses are miserable and unwilling to seperate.
A world where a man is afraid or shamed to be a man, and those that do this shaming are applauded.
A world poisoned by a social labyrinth of hoops created by feminist propagandists to try to concoct a twisted self-fulfilling prophecy that men are either outdated cavemen or a spineless bumbling oafs that exist for no other reason than to serve women.
To such a world, thanks but no thanks.
I'll stick with the reality of my world.
A world where both men and women feel free to express themselves and speak openly about themselves, where ideas stand or fall based on effectiveness, not whether a man or woman is doing the speaking.
A world where a woman is not ashamed to be a woman, to let down her defenses, because there is not the need to pretend to be a man.
A world where the good man is free to pursue his dreams and desires, to not have to navigate inhospitable waters of a social construct openly hostile to him simply because he has a penis. To all good men, I encourage you to never feed such a construct, but to avoid it, ignore it, and pursue and find your bliss despite it!
For we know that a woman will test her man.
The man that passes these test, for such a man has earned the respect and attraction of his woman.
The man that fails these tests, a woman will seeth contempt for this man, and resent such a man for being weak.
These are " fitness tests ", or also called " $h!t tests ".
So to understand this, and apply to a social construct, is to understand what we call Feminism, including all it's insidious forms, and how to deal with it as it arises now and then in your own life.
Quote:
So if you think your problem was in being a "nice guy," then think again. Maybe you just need to understand that being "nice" doesn't mean being spineless. And it certainly does not mean being "p*ssy-whipped." Have enough confidence to believe that you are worthwhile and desirable, and act that way. THAT'S attractive!
Exactly well put. The good man boldly and confidently expressing dominance is attractive to a woman.
Never, I mean NEVER buy into a notion that the solution to being a "nice guy" is to become a "nicer guy" !!!
Oh Big Bad Wolf, I was SOOOO afraid this would be the result of me talking about these things!! I suspected it would come to this again.
Listen, I can NOT stress to you enough, I simply can not, you do not know me of coarse, but IF you did and you KNEW my husband, you knew us together, seen our relationship, YOU would seriously believe & trust that I have done EVERYTHING possible, beyond the normal means for allowing my husband to "be himself, come out of his shell" -that he indeed would have NOTHING to worry about - with me. Without knowing me personally, I guess you won't believe it. But what can I say, it is simply not that! He is who he is. He is not hiding anything from me. I do not feel he has this fear at all. And he would NEVER feel that I would see him as a rapist. Never.
It really isn't these things.
I do want to be insulting, so I understand and will type this out plainly, that you know yourself and your husband far better than anyone else in this world and I do not presume to know anything of your scenario that you do not know.
I only can share of my perspective, based on my own experience and lifetime.
And now, leaving the road well travelled, and venturing into hypothetical thinking concerning your scenario, I will throw these out as suggestions.
If you are doing these things to show your husband it is okay, and understand exactly just this, mabye you are making things too easy for your man.
For considering in my own mind, it is not aggression or passionate pursuing necessary to catch a quarry that is making things too easy. What excitement is that?
Also, what expectation?
Like as if I was to watch pornography. To me, living and experiencing the life I have, it is always too contrived and false and I get not much excitment as the real thing.
So maybe just consider this, for you to piss off your man more often, and give him the good reason to spank you. And I do not mean merely playful spanking.
Quote:
And NO, he does NOT have these kinds of fantasies, not the Dominant kind you speak of. A while back, I have started a whole thread about Men preferring Dominant women, these are more his fantasies. I have been with this man for 28 yrs , I know HIM inside & out. Now what I dont want to hear from you is that my husband is some kind of freak. I probably wanted assurance from other men on this forum, that this is "normal "-- BECAUSE OF YOUR POSTS!
No, I am not ever looking to say what is normal or not normal!
I am by far not normal myself, as my wife would quickly remind me.
Besides, normal is boring, by defintion. What fun is that?
I am only saying this, if the good man or woman in a relationship that is unsatisfying for either, then there are steps to take to fix these things, as they should be fixed.
Quote:
I know this, when we 1st started watching porn together, one of the BIGGEST turn ons for him was Jennie Jameson all dressed in Red in some Dominatrix outfit with a whip or something. I am sorry, this is what "does it" for my husband!! I have asked, we have shared, we talk about it all, When it comes to fantasys, he has little to say, he just mentions Strippers and he says I fullfill them all. Maybe if he wasn't having SO much sex, he would have more, I don't know! It is claimed that the "sexually starved" usually write the best Romance novels. Got to be something to that, their imaginations/fantasys are burning for release.
Trust me, I want MORE of an answer from him, I fish for it, he is not one to close up-push me away, he tries but in honesty he simply claims he does not feel that way.
I am thining more and more, you are making sexual life too easy for him.
If the lamb walks to the lion and lays down every evening, what a tame lion would result.
Now a hungry lion, that no one needs to be around!
Quote:
Listen, I know your intentions are well, but it is NOT going to do ME any good to believe He is inferior to other men, or for me to try to change what HE IS, what turns him on. For a time, I tried , was that ever beating my head against the wall !! I won't go there again.
Understand, this is no contest between men.
Only the contest, is between who we are today, and who we could be tomorrow. That is the contest that we all need to be on the winning path.
Quote:
MEN, they simply are not all the same, maybe the majority, but sexually, their can be some outside the box. I mean, Heck, we have gay men, I know they do not have the same fantasies!! I know he is NOT gay by any means.
I mean, he may have smaller , less dominate fantasies but not these "dark primal aggressive" kind you speak of.
I know you won't agree, but I still feel that hormonally, his having low normal testosterone levels is the answer behind this. Testosterone promotes Fantasy and Aggression & Sexual desire. This is simply fact.
Now here is MY bet.... but I doubt I will ever get to see the comparison -as he may never accually NEED Testosterone Treatment. But if we took an inventory of his sexaul thoughts, fantasys & how HOT his desire is NOW --then put him on Testosterone injections or patches, I bet you anything in this world, his fantasies will take a whole new realm that would even surprise him, his Desire will be MORE OFTEN AND MORE EROTIC in nature, he would even become aggressive in a way I never seen before. I have heard both men & women talk about the changes after treatment, with some new benefits sexually - but unwanted benefits in aggression. So I know this to be truth.
Women who do not fantasize also are probably lacking in testosterone in compared to Nymphos.
Also understand, these things I say, are primary to men.
Also this, assuming there are no health issues or that there was sexual passion in the beginning.
These things you speak of regarding testosterone, I do not disptute that at all.
But the danger, to refuse to say anything at all, because men are individual or women are individual, this is also not beneficial.
Merely take what is beneficial, and leave that which is not, this is for the individual to decide for himself or herself.
Quote:
Why I am so hellbent on you accepting this is beyond me, I guess I enjoy the challenge- and that you are Mr Big Bad Wolf. My husband is still a "Good" man despite this thing you can not understand.
On this challenge, why indeed would you care where I accept it or not?
But concerning your husband, I will not say your man is lucky to have you.
I will say absolutely he earned the devotion of a woman such as yourself because of the man he is.
This speaks all I would ever need to know on the both of you.
Just to let you guys know that I was being corrected by my 13-year-old son today. I was sitting improperly. My husband was laughing at me because I was corrected by son again. I get corrected by my son a lot now! Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I was happy. I was proud. My son knows what his mother did was right or wrong. I don't mind being corrected by him. I put my legs together and sat up like a LADY!!!
Just to let you guys know that I was being corrected by my 13-year-old son today. I was sitting improperly. My husband was laughing at me because I was corrected by son again. I get corrected by my son a lot now! Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I was happy. I was proud. My son knows what his mother did was right or wrong. I don't mind being corrected by him. I put my legs together and sat up like a LADY!!!
MY WONDERFUL SON AND WONDERFUL HUSBAND!
I don't know why but I thought you had said you didn't have any children. I have a thirteen year old as well, soon to be fourteen, but a girl. Adore her as I do my other two.
I only can share of my perspective, based on my own experience and lifetime.
I appreciate this humble comment, as it is what the majority of us instinctively do in life, but it also hinders understanding of others, at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
If you are doing these things to show your husband it is okay, and understand exactly just this, mabye you are making things too easy for your man..
I know you are still trying to make sense of this. 1st you suspected I might not be allowing him enough comfortable freedom to be WHO HE IS deep within, now it is that I might be making it "too easy", so his Primal instincts have no need to bare their teeth.
I'll be the 1st to admit, Yeah, I probably do make it easy, real easy these days. But given our past in this area, when I was NOT so easy to arouse, this brought no Primal animal out of him. He still waited for me many times to come to him. I would say up to 40% of the time I came on to him, he would probably say less, but I disagree as when I had it on MY MIND, it ended in sex. When he had it on HIS mind, it did NOT probably more than 1/2 of the time cause he did not half aggressively let me know what he wanted. It has been a major blessing to our sex life that I AM THIS WAY NOW.
The thought of trying to become Passive - to allow this primal man to emerge, well, I know him well enough to know I would loose patience with that test majorly fast!!
...and Consdiering what AROUSES him (Aggressive women), seriously WHY should I do that, should I not just BE what he desires me to be? As this role, for me personally, I DO enjoy, it flows quite naturally. He is ALWAYS receptive , willing and we have a beautifully connecting Sensual time. Sure, I have some "EROTIC" fantasies he can not seem to fullfill but besides you Big Bad Wolf, I would say that is the norm with at least 90% of all couples around the globe, I am being conservative here, I am sure it is more. I would NEVER leave him over this. If he lost that receptive desire, I MAY, but what we have truly is fullfilling "enough" by all means. You are the rarity here who lives out ALL of your sexual fantasies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
For considering in my own mind, it is not aggression or passionate pursuing necessary to catch a quarry that is making things too easy. What excitement is that?
Also, what expectation? .
I like what you say, I UNDERSTAND it. I personally DO passionetly pursue. I am passionate about anything I am "into" & well my husband is IT right now. All I can say is >> He FEELS it and it is contagious when we are together. My passion fuels his passion. Not sure how else to describe that. He is somewhat of a CHALLENGE to me - just because I sometimes need to "work him up" (beings hormonally he is not as lustful outright as other men). But my pay off is getting him all hot & bothered, bringing him to where I am. And this fuels my desire for more learning & experimenting to keep this hot ongoing sex life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
So maybe just consider this, for you to piss off your man more often, and give him the good reason to spank you. And I do not mean merely playful spanking.
I am definetly a challenge to him in other ways, maybe not sexually , but again, he is not very aggressive. He does not seek out what you describe here. He spanked me once or twice, it was all in a joking kind of fun play though. I am sure we will NEVER reach to the levels of what you are describing by any means. This is not something I have a fantasy about at all so I am not bothered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
No, I am not ever looking to say what is normal or not normal!
I am by far not normal myself, as my wife would quickly remind me.
Besides, normal is boring, by defintion. What fun is that?
I am only saying this, if the good man or woman in a relationship that is unsatisfying for either, then there are steps to take to fix these things, as they should be fixed..
I agree with that last statment wholeheartily. I am accually very happy that YOU are outside the box in normalcy, and can accept that others can be as well.
I don't feel we need fixed by any means, other than wanting to pursue YOUR posts & give another perspective. I DID struggle for a time about feeling he did not desire me - but that was when I was feeling like a heavily lustful teenage boy who couldn't get my mind off of sex even for a few minutes (boy was the fantasy realm HIGH THEN!) and him not being able to keep up with me, that was somehow shocking to my system & mind. Thankfully my hormones have calmed down since then & I have committed myself to understanding him. I have learned so much about the role of hormones, also that my then persistent feeling he NEEDED to become an Erotic like myself -was simply NOT our answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
These things you speak of regarding testosterone, I do not disptute that at all.
Very happy to get this much from you as you never mention levels in any of your posts & how this can affect our behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
Merely take what is beneficial, and leave that which is not, this is for the individual to decide for himself or herself.
On this challenge, why indeed would you care where I accept it or not?
Absolutely -we should all do this- and I usually do just that & take it no further.
I care because YOU , Mr Big Bad Wof have a very high & Respected Following on this furum, for this reason alone, I felt compelled to challenge your thinking a little. Take it as a compliment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadWolf
But concerning your husband, I will not say your man is lucky to have you.
I will say absolutely he earned the devotion of a woman such as yourself because of the man he is.
This speaks all I would ever need to know on the both of you.
He definetely earned it, this is very true. I was a little messed up emotionally back then- when he entered my life at 15, being my saving Prince rescuing the damsel in distress- as "Unbelievable" on this forum so pegged in describing why Nice Guys end up with Aggressive women on one of my threads. But I was not a stupid girl even then, I could spot the irresponsible, the user, the addicted, and all those other men with grave baggage that could come to haunt me & my children in the future. I know I made a FINE choice even if he is a little "out of the box".
Thank you for listening & sharing Mr. Big Bad Wolf. Appreciate it !
I don't know why but I thought you had said you didn't have any children. I have a thirteen year old as well, soon to be fourteen, but a girl. Adore her as I do my other two.
I was divorced. I have a son with my ex. A wonderful son!!! He is a head taller than me now. He lives with his father. I get to see him every Saturday. He is very mature . He knows to comfort Mom now. Once I started talking about sad stuff, my son told me not to talk about it since talking about sad stuff would only make me sad. What a wonderful son! We used to go to nice restaurants when he came to visit us. He told me that he would rather eat Mom's food because it is cheap and delicious. He would go to the Internet and search jokes for me because he knows Mom likes to laugh.
Now he is able to talk to us in English. When he comes to visit me, I also have to serve as an English teacher for him.
In my life, my son is the only person I feel I haven't done enough for. I am doing my best, but deep down in my heart, I ask him to forgive me. I comfort myself by telling me that everybody grows up in a different way. My childhood wasn't much better.
Fortunately, my son's life is OK. He is a happy son actually. His father, my husband, and I love him a lot. He has three people's love. He doesn't lack love.
You guys are great, get to watch your children grow up. I was selfish, I chose to end my unhappy marriage. My ex wouldn't let me take my son since in Taiwan, sons are important to the men's family. I couldn't even have a fight because I didn't have Taiwanese ID when I wanted to leave. I gave up everything: an apartment and money( $80,000 altogether) just to make his father happy so I could get to see my son regularly.His father did feel better after he got to have all the material stuff. We actually have a very good relationship now. He respects my husband. He is happy to see that my husband is giving me a happy life.
As you may imagine “conflict” between my wife and me was very hard and sometimes impossible to resolve, things just got buried but not forgotten. I think this was basically because with my style I see conflict as a good thing, an opportunity for improvement and my wife saw it as a bad thing.
I wonder where the nice guys would put themselves?
I also see Conflict exactly as you do- an opportunity for improvement.
As for my Nice Guy Husband, he does not welcome conflict, or pursue it (as I would ) but once in it- he never runs, he stands firm, he desires resolution as much as I, things are never buried & he is fully able to forgive & never bring that incident up again, but grow from it.
AFEH - where did your original post go ? I don't see it now.
BBW...
I am not sure what message you are trying to convey here. Most men don't think of themselves as rapists at all! Unless they have actually raped a women, I doubt that their sexual actions would come across as rape.
Am I wrong in thinking that you and your wife of 21 years have a BDSM relationship? Nothing wrong with that but you seem to think that many others have a "rapist" mentality. I think I read it wrong so apologizes in advance as emotions rarely come through in posts.
3Likes
Re: Modern Men (Warning...long) 
I too have had this conversation with MY husband. These days, with the way I feel, if he decided he was not "into" me & the sex dwindled down pathetically, I have as much told him I would NOT be able to handle this, I am very WEAK & most likely, in my desperation (as I won't beg) I would probably find myself a Lover. Again, this is NOT our situation, I can recall only 1 time in 21 yrs he was not "up" for having sex when I wanted him , so this is all talk. He does not feel the same as me (saying he would not take another) but he "accepts" that I feel this way, he understands it, and I guess it is not a threat to him as he feels the same as me, desiring a frequent sex life. 
