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Modern Men (Warning...long)

47K views 437 replies 38 participants last post by  Deejo 
#1 ·
I've been on marriage sites like this one for years trying to figure out what was wrong with my marriage. Over the last 13 years the relationship dynamic has changed between my wife and I.

I did everything that is considered the gold standard to try to put us back on the right course. I helped with the cleaning, I cooked, I did dishes, helped with the laundry, prepared surprise romantic dinners, teased her, left love notes, everything everyone suggests to try to "get her in the mood".

Nothing worked. My wife never really flat out rejected me much. Mostly she just ignored my advances, which, to be honest, was worse than straight rejections. I did have my share of rejection but more often than not she would just ignore me.

I blamed her for a lot of the problems. It was her fault I was our sex life sucked, it was her fault I wasn't happy.

Then I started stumbling across posts from different men on the forums I had visited. People like MEM, BigBadWolf, and others. The things they said seemed alien to me at the time.

When I was growing up, my mother was the authority figure in the home. My dad was a passive, hard working, honest man who never really made a decision of his own in his life. At times though, he held a lot of anger. He was passive-aggressive, but not often. Never abusive, and always terrified of making my mother angry. I would always hear him telling his friends and co-workers, "I can't do that, it would upset my wife." To me, this was normal. And it was, with all my male relatives. Their wives ran the house, the husbands brought home the money in most cases.

To get to the point, most of the men in my family, circle of friends, and co-workers were this exact same way...and so was I.

From the time I was a boy, I was taught to treat women like princesses. To put them on a pedestal. I was taught to treat my sister different than I would treat my brother. Taking queues from my male role models, I learned that the way to make a woman deliriously happy was to give in to her every whim. To do everything she asked, even if I it was the last thing I wanted to do, because it made them happy. I was that, and I saw it through example. This "education" translated to others as well. If anyone would ask me for help, I was there. I would do anything for anyone, and I did.

From reading posts from people like MEM and BBW, I couldn't quite grasp what they were saying. I mean, I did, but it didn't make any sense. So, I started reading more. Articles on male dominance, etc. Things started to make sense, but dominance as it was being explained sounded like I would just be another a-hole. There was a balance that was missing.

I eventually noticed quite a few threads around the net referring to a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". I bought it and read it and in that book I found the balance I was thought was missing.

My problem was the true lack of a MALE role model in growing up. There were few MEN that I could have looked to. My maternal Grandfather was the only on.

You, I learned the problem with most modern men (the last two or three generations) is that we have, for the most part, lost how to actually be men.

We have no boundaries to what type of behaviors are unacceptable to us. We put up with nagging, *****ing, public scolding, and a whole laundry list of other things. Why? Because we don't have the balls to draw the line in fear of "angering the wife". We have no regard for our OWN happiness, and therefore, most of us are miserable in relationships.

We do everything for our wives and nothing for ourselves. We say things like, "Honey, I'd really like to have a new XXXX. Can I buy one please?" Exactly like we did when we were little boys. I don't know what woman finds actions such as this attractive.

The other thing that women I've talked to find irritating and unattractive is the old, "I don't care, whatever you want." This ranges from wanting input on paint colors for the house to where to go for dinner. We have an opinion, why are we afraid to express it? This example, I believe, is a woman offering her man an opportunity to lead. Women WILL test us to see if we are willing to 1) lead 2) protect and 3) provide.

I will admit, through almost all of my marriage, I was a solid provider, but that was it. I gave up all my friends and hobbies, for my wife. This always gnawed at me, but I was "taught" this was the way things were.

After looking at all the married men around me and having my eyes opened, I saw it was the way things were, but not the way things "should" be. All the things I was expected to give up, and that my wife didn't approve of, she had, and I didn't.

Where I asked permission to buy something, she just bought it. Where I asked permission to go out, she just told me and went.

Slowly, over time, she lost all sexual interest in me, but she was happy with the life I provide her and she was ok with things the way they were. After finally figuring myself out, and finally understanding what she really wanted from me, I started changing. So far, it has been tough for us both. She resists because I'm upsetting her apple cart. I'm taking her out of her comfort zone, but I finally realized that was NOT the life I wanted to lead. I WILL not lead that life, even if it means parting ways.

It was an eye opening day when I realized all the men I was surrounded by, myself included, had no balls. We were/are AFRAID of our wives and would not stand up for ourselves for anything. We are getting exactly the life we deserve.

Oddly enough, I notice it everywhere now and it is a constant reminder to keep working on myself. If you want to know what I'm talking about, watch any of the husband / wife type sitcoms on TV.

I learned that my wife can NOT make me happy, only I can. My wife is there kind of like a polish, to make that happiness just that more beautiful to experience. We are far from there, and may not get there, but I'm now willing to pursue my happiness, with or without her.

Anyway, I see a lot of the same traits from most of the men that post here who have the same problems I'm trying to correct now. I'm having some success, but its going to be a long road.

We, as men, have to relearn how to be men.
 
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#138 ·
And believe it or not roles are a good thing and even important. Everybody has their own roles be it at home, school, work, church and just wherever. It's all about roles and everyone doing their part. It would be a mess if the roles got mixed and people did each others jobs. That is how problems are caused. It's not immature at all.
Unless you are one of those people who doesn't fit the gender roles. Like me. And my husband.
 
#139 ·
Anyway, there is a reason these shows have the all-knowing wise woman and the bumbling Dad/husband - it's an extension of the commercials.

Women drive consumption in the US and advertisers will go with TV shows and commercials that portray this and reinforce women's needs to feel good about themselves, that they need to degrade men.

This is the magic of beer commercials. :)

Beer commercials are men degrading other men ("Real Men of Genius" was my favorite longstanding beer commercial) or just simply allowing men to drink beer and saying it's okay.

I also liked the beer commercial of a man sitting at a bar asking if these jeans maked him look fat. LOL!
 
#144 ·
My mother also stayed at home - but was not educated. I was an only child. When I left home, it was almost as if she lost her identity.

And - while I'm sharing - my dad spent much of his time either working, or saddled up next to a bar.

As a kid I recognized this at some level, and went into "make mom happy" mode. Hence - I believe - the origins of my "nice guy" personality.

My dad eventually sobered up and stayed that way. As I grew older (college age), I did begin to respect some of the things he had been doing.

But there was a lot of my young life where it was just me and mom.
 
#147 ·
"Men are what their mothers made them." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Even so, maybe the boys were trained by their father or other males, but in the end, when the dad yells at the son to toughen up, it's up to the mother to either go hug the son and baby him saying poor baby it's ok bla bla bla, or she can sit and let the man do what he has to do to turn the boy into a man.

I have 2 bothers and my mom never babied either of them and they're not sissy. My MIL on the other hand, still babies my husband and he's almost 30 and I hate his guts! See the difference?
 
#148 ·
Yes - I see that women are secretly in control and they don't like it.

:scratchhead:

That you can crush us at any time...but you want us to protect you...

:scratchhead:

Oh yeah - and you want to be spanked - but in a respectful, loving way.

Its all becoming quite clear...and I need an asprin and a stiff drink...
 
#149 ·
"All women become their mothers. That is their tragedy.

All men can never become theirs. That is theirs."

- Alexander Pope.
 
#150 ·
BTW, men. . .if you are ever in an argument that's heated with your wife and you are losing, you can always say,

"You know who you are just like? You are just like your mother!!!"

They love that. It always wins the argument.

Ask the women here.

Trust me. ;)
 
#152 ·
"Deep within man dwell those slumbering powers; powers that would astonish him, that he would never dream of possessing; forces that would revolutionize his life if aroused and put into action." - Orison Swett Marden
 
#155 ·
You guys had a lot of fun while I was sleeping.:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

I wonder if there is a cure for marriage problems. Because there isn't a cure for human problems.

Deep down in human nature, they are selfish. Everybody wants to protect their own rights. They only think what they don't get, they don't think what they get.

Men are becoming more obsessed with their career, they want to win among their male competition, they ignore their duties as a husband and a father. They stay out all day and all night, think that they are working for their family, actually they are working for themselves, that's why there are so many unhappy women.

Women have to become independent because they don't trust men. If they are well taken care of and well respected by their men, I don't think they want to go out and be career women. But after tasting the good feeling being independent, they ignore their duties as a wife and a mother, they forget that they are still women, they need men. When they realize that, it is already too late.

Men, women, is there any chance that you let go of yourself, and work together for your happy marriage?
 
#161 ·
I agree with you.
I actually feel very low today.
Nobody is the same. Is there a rule?
She could be your perfect match, but with somebody else, she might be horrible. You might be able to make her happy, but somebody else might make her feel miserable.


No matter what, I want this world to be with more happy people!!!
 
#159 ·
Yes. Boys and young men require positive, and present, male role models.

Men need to spend time in the company of men, rather than avoiding such gatherings because their female partner disapproves or feels slighted.

Men need to follow a relationship guide primarily laid out by other men ... not women. The guide is simple. It is far more about being honest with yourself and others, and having a personal code of conduct that centers around the truth of who you are than it is about trying to be who you think you should to hold onto, and make a woman happy.
Don't rely on a woman to define who you are, or to act as your anchor to personal happiness.

We engage in intimate relationships for sex. We stay in them because there are elements that contribute more fulfillment than sex alone. Take sex out of the equation and you may have a relationship, but it is no longer an intimate one. That's a man's definition pure and simple.

That can be the working model for Emperor SG's United States of ManLand Charter.
 
#160 ·
Deejo,

I approve. I award you a cabinet position. :smthumbup:

I think the main thing to remember about all of this is that these are all generalizations. And that's fine. . .we need to generalize.

If marriage is like building a house, well, you need a blueprint and I think what we have offered (man in charge, woman as council) is a simple blueprint.

If you want to deviate from the blueprint and it works for you, because you have a sunroom in the back, or a swimming pool in the backyard, well, do what works for you, of course. I would just say deviate with care as I think the principles for a sound structure within a marriage have been laid out here.

Modern Men and Modern Women, be aware - they don't make houses like they used to.

And for God's sake. . .no going potty in front of each other. That's going in the charter by decree.
 
#162 ·
Deejo,

I approve. I award you a cabinet position. :smthumbup:

I think the main thing to remember about all of this is that these are all generalizations. And that's fine. . .we need to generalize.

If marriage is like building a house, well, you need a blueprint and I think what we have offered (man in charge, woman as council) is a simple blueprint.

If you want to deviate from the blueprint and it works for you, because you have a sunroom in the back, or a swimming pool in the backyard, well, do what works for you, of course. I would just say deviate with care as I think the principles for a sound structure within a marriage have been laid out here.

Modern Men and Modern Women, be aware - they don't make houses like they used to.
When we buy houses , they are all very beautiful. Why do a lot of houses still stay beautiful and some other houses crumble after many years?

When people get married, they all have beautiful smiles, they all vow to be together forever. Why do they change after a few years?

Do they try hard to maintain it?
 
#164 ·
I truly don't believe that most people understand the level of commitment that they are making when they get married. The years of ups and downs. The meaning of "for better or worse."

We all have our parents to model from - but of course most of them did their best to hide the bad and difficult times from us. My wife's parents still seem "perfect" - but my MIL will sometimes open up a bit to my wife about their problems - about how she feels stuck.

And no one starts reading a book, or going to counseling, until its almost too late to save it.

So - I keep thinking "what was the original question" that started this thread? Oh yeah - modern men. Maybe it doesn't matter what kind of man we are - modern or neanderthal or somewhere in between - whether we're more like Ray Ramano or John Wayne - if we and our partners don't understand what we are getting ourselves into.

"Nobody told me there'd be days like these...most peculiar"
 
#165 ·
It's important to understand and accept the politicization of gender relationships. For two generations women have been taught that housework, motherhood, and even being a wife is a form of masculine oppression. This is why the word "submit" is so powerful and dangerous. Women are now supposed to be "strong and independent" which has been translated into "bossy and domineering", traits which most men - not the "Nice Guys" - find repellent and wildly unattractive.

These lessons simply can't be undone. Is it any wonder why women are so confused and conflicted? Their biology tells them one thing (safety, security, and family) and social expectations tell them something completely different ("never submit to a man!").

Men are also facing mixed messages. Consider the recent Newsweek article "Mens Lib" where the authors state that men must act in a more feminine manner.

Men must escalate their essential masculine strengths in order to succeed in their lives and their relationships. Being the Nice Guy and letting women have their way will most always result in a failed relationship.

Now, if women could realize that being bossy and domineering is not attractive. :rofl:
 
#166 ·
Zammo,

Good points, and the truth is there are also many women not buying into this feminist ideas hook line and sinker as well.

The finesse for all good men, is to never assume all women are this way or that way concerning some modern way of thinking, but to let the individual woman speak for herself.

I work in my career among many high success and educated women, and can name many of them that are rejecting mostly or all these feminist stereotypes and are either in good relationships or would potentially be excellent in relationships, at least to speak of relationships as they are willing to reveal.

And of course can name many of them at my career and social circles that most men should avoid marriage with at all costs!

And even some of the more successful ones, it is clear with the conversations do drift to these types of topics, that absolutley behind closed doors they are not wanting to be with a man that is not the toe to toe match for her, and unable to make her feel as a woman.

But know this, even to interview a potential candidate or get to know a potential client or vendor or contracting engineer, if this person is a woman who one of the first things out of her mouth is how she is quick to stand up to a man, or not take anything from a man other such thing, then it is common among those of who have been around the block that there is some compensation maybe being covered up.

For in my experience, and especially noticing in the last few years as these things are peaking my curiousity, of the sevearal women who find themselves in compromised positions at our place of work and have to be reprimanded or fired (affair with boss, affair with client or vendor, sex in the workplace, et etc etc) are the ones who from their mouths are quick to spin some feminist hard line, but at their core are simply being dishonest with themselves and are unprepared when temptation or improper opportunities arise. I cannot help but wonder if this is more than coincidence!

Instead the strong and balanced women candidates will rarely need to say how strong they are in compare to men, for their resumes or experience or previous accomplishments and how they carry themselves during the interview will speak much louder on these things, and this does carry the weight.

So this is just some of my observations on these tings.
 
#167 ·
The finesse for all good men, is to never assume all women are this way or that way concerning some modern way of thinking, but to let the individual woman speak for herself.
This is the "we are all special snowflakes" world view and is generally not successful because people act in shockingly predictable ways based on common backgrounds and consistent input.

It's also called the "Not All Women Are Like That" (NAWALT) concept in the Internet manosphere and the common wisdom of men who truly understand women is that NAWALT really doesn't apply. Women (and men, of course) are indeed quite predictable and the details of this predictability must be shared widely.

Of course, political correctness reinforces the special snowflake world view and NAWALT and to reject these is to incur the wrath of the politically correct. Not that I care. :D
 
#168 ·
I agree completely with the no snowflake view.

That was not my point.

I was saying to the good men reading this, not to assume every woman they run across in life is believing the feminist ideas hook line and sinker.

There are women in this beautiful world who are looking for a good man, and will appreciate being in a relationship with such a man. On this I am very much an optimist as I see and live this belief in my own life.

I do not look at women as all demon or all angel, to either be avoided or worshipped at all, but simply that a woman is a woman.

Again on this we agree, as humans definitely patterns and habits are predictable, men behave like men, women behave like women and because of this the good man can chart his own course based on what he desires for his happiness! :)

Regarding this NAWALT ideas, I have not heard of this before but I will spend some time looking at what this is about.
 
#170 ·
After battling in my own marriage I read this thread with interest. It reads so true with solving my own problems and not having my needs (in the bedroom) met. I think we all need some coaching on structuring new balanced relationships that reflect the differences between men and women. As the original post points out we didn't have those strong role models, my father was as strong as an ox but turned to alcohol to resolve his disappointments in his marriage. I'm not going to deal with them the same way - I also need to demonstrate to my son how to be strong and loving at the same time.

I started a blog on the sex bit over here:
Hornyhusband's Blog

I really want to expand it as a commentary for men on how to have a healthy, balanced relationship.
 
#172 ·
Article in the news today:

http://www.thestar.com/article/867815--it-s-time-for-men-to-man-up-and-take-charge


It’s time for men to man up and take charge

by Robert Cribb
Staff Reporter

I blame Air Supply.

And the entire male cast of Friends.

As a gender, the modern man has been socialized into bumbling submission.

Doting, indecisive and generally wimpy, too many of us have lost the ancient protocols of manhood.

Consider the basic proposition posed by Toronto writer Elliott Katz in his self-help guide for the whipped male called Being the Strong Man A Woman Wants: Our fathers, bewildered by the feminist revolution, have failed to hand down the kind of testosterone-laced wisdom that defined our gender throughout history.

That breaking of the chain has blurred the male social code beyond recognition.

What remains is a kind of wishy-washy modern malehood that has left men puzzled and women frustrated, says Katz.

“We mean well. But boys have grown up without strong role models. We think we’re being nice. But we’re shirking our responsibility.”

Himself included, says Katz, a divorced father of two whose book sprang from a kind of post mortem on his own marital identity.

“I tried to please. I thought, ‘If I could do what she wants, she would be happy.’”

So, he did.

He worked hard, provided for his family and tried to be accommodating.

“She seemed to know what she wanted and I figured I’ll do what she wants.”

And there’s the rub, he says.

Too many of us have handed over decision making to our wives and girlfriends on everything from the evening meal plans to RRSP contribution levels.

We relentlessly seek approval, defer, scurry to please and compromise endlessly to gain favour or peace.

In short, we are no longer leaders.

Bad call, says Katz.

“Leaving decisions to her is very frustrating for women. We all believe in gender equality. But you’re still the man and you have to take charge.”

Clear signs of the masculinity deficit emerged in the “sensitive new age guy” (SNAG) ’80s and ’90s and advanced to a contemporary state of near androgyny.

Our balls now come pre-busted.

Turn on any number of popular culture sitcoms – The Simpsons, Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens, Yes, Dear, Two and a Half Men — and witness the spineless man on comedic display.

The laughs are on us.

For more biting social criticism, consider the Kevin Spacey character in the film American Beauty.

“Lester, could you make me a little later please because I’m not quite late enough,” his wife scolds condescendingly as he spills the contents of his briefcase on the way out the door one morning.

She’s the one driving the car.

“Both my wife and daughter think I’m this gigantic loser, and they’re right,” he narrates. “I have lost something. I’m not exactly sure what it is.”

Last week’s edition of Newsweek magazine featured a lengthy lament of modern masculinity summarized by this line: “To survive in a hostile world, guys need to embrace girly jobs and dirty diapers.”

New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd’s recent book title asks the excruciatingly offensive question, Are Men Necessary?

And a recent essay in The Atlantic — provocatively titled “The End of Men” — reports that after being the dominant sex since the dawn of time, “that is changing — and with shocking speed.”

This role reversal – including the female eclipse of men in universities and the professional world — is all part of the bruising being sustained by the modern male ego.

It feeds our growing deference.

The only path left is personal responsibility, says Katz.

Breaking the cycle requires a new found manning-up philosophy, finding issues that aren’t being handled in a relationship and handling them, being more decisive and, in the end, reclaiming a connection to primal manhood.

And, as an aside, it wouldn’t kill you to banish from your music library any whiny men singing saccharine dirges about lost love. That crap is killing you inside.
 
#173 · (Edited)
BBW,

A very good article.

I am going to gossip, I don't like to gossip, it is not my nature.

But please see the comparison.

My husband used to have a friend. This friend is married to a Taiwanese woman.

In our marriage, I let my husband manage the big issues, like buying an apartment or planning a trip, or anything involved with big money. I am independent as a working woman, but at home he is my leader, he is the decision maker, we have being enjoying a happy marriage ever since we got married. I respect him as my man and he loves me as his wife.

This other friend lets his wife make decisions, for example, she asked to have separate bank accounts. The day when we got married my husband said that we have to put our money together, we can't have separate accounts, I did what he wanted. This friend of his listened to his wife. When he was making less money than she did, she would complain. She decided to buy an apartment which they can't afford, he let her do it. She decided to have fancy decoration, he went along. Do you know what kind of life they have now. They are in debt, they have difficulties making bank payments. They prolonged their mortgage from 20 years to 30 years. She has being depressed ever since they got married, he is very frustrated with her too. I wanted to buy a big apartment, my husband said NO, I listened to him. I wanted to have fancy decoration, my husband said NO, I listened to him. I listen to him. He is smart! And he is happy that I let him make decisions.

Maybe some men are not that smart, but when making a decision, a man will think about more areas, a woman just likes to show off.

I respect my husband, even though he is younger than me. I let him be my head, since I know I make impulsive decisions.

No matter how smart women think they are , they should let men be their leaders, it is just human nature!! And it is the best way to live.
 
#174 ·
The article mentions Kevin Spacey in American Beauty - one of my favorite movies.

"Both my wife and daughter think I'm this gigantic loser and they're right, I have lost something. I'm not exactly sure what it is but I know I didn't always feel this... sedated. But you know what? It's never too late to get it back."

"Look at me, jerking off in the shower... This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here."

Movie Spoilers - Alert!

The first 2 times I watched it, I was focused on the main story of him rebelling against his "gigantic loser" life. Was somewhat inspiring - in a hollywood kind of way.

But at the end, after he is shot and is dying, his mind is filled with the beautiful thoughts about his life with his wife, and about his daughter, and their times together. The last time I watched, I realized that there was probably a better way for him to have tried to "fix" his "gigantic loser" life than through pot smoking, working out, quitting his job, obsessing over his daughter's young friend, etc., etc. And that in the end, his mind found its way back to what really mattered to him.
 
#207 ·
Love this summary and that movie. It's difficult to keep life beautiful with all the dirtiness it inevitably has to offer. We are in a constant struggle to retain ourselves within the requirements of our present roles. In marriage if the balance in either/or partner gets out of sync then destruction follows. Deconstruction is far easier than to build.
 
#175 ·
A relationship should be a partnership, about togetherness and compromise, not solely about the man taking the lead and the woman being the follower. There will be times when it will be right for the man to take the lead, and others when the woman should. That should be for the couple to work out. IMO
 
#179 ·
We bought that ticket. And the ride leads to mediocrity, dissatisfaction and resentment. You are missing the point. Both MEM and BBW say it over and over ad nauseum ...

there is a difference between being a draconian control-freak, and a benevolent leader. Their wives do lead, in areas the couple has already delineated; areas that they as men defer, or just don't care about. That's what works. They are advocating exactly what you are saying - they have the partnership you outline. But somehow, and I'm not pointing the finger at you, there is always someone, who thinks they are some kind of Svengali.

Women think they want a sensitive, emotional, compassionate, romantic man that can openly express his feelings, isn't afraid to cry, wants to spend all of their time together and lives to please them.

Give them that package and they will without question eventually be bored to tears. They will not stay attracted to that man. They will instead be drawn to someone a little more 'exciting' and 'challenging'. There is no excitement or challenge in having a 'yes' man for a partner.

The kicker is even as WE (men collectively) try to step out of the doormat role - and become more practical in our partnering, more assertive, better leaders - women will test us and lament that we are not behaving as doormats. It is a fundamental tenet of the rules of engagement.
 
#176 ·
This thread sparked a very genuine discussion between my husband and myself. I am very glad to have read this post.

I asked my husband how important was it to him to be the one to "call the shots" in the marriage and he said it was very important. I asked him why and he basically said it's a man thing and that men always need to feel as if they are making the decisions - not just in relationships.

We talked about it for a while and I got him to agree that if he wants to be the one calling the shots, then he has to take all of the responsibility if something goes wrong. It costs to be the boss. His reply was that he wishes more women would understand that even though men want to make the decisions, they aren't perfect and there will be mistakes. Men, my husband says, need to feel allowed to make them.

We talked and talked and it was nice. What occured to me during the conversation is that in order for a man to feel in control in a relationship, I as a wife basically have to let him choose my life. He determines basically what kind of life I will live by the decisions he makes. That is a tough pill to swallow for any human as everyone has wants and needs that are unique to them. It's very difficult to decide to give up that control in your own life and I believe that is why so many women opt to divorce. They can't find the balance between surrendering to the marriage and happiness. They come to the conclusion that they can only be happy if they have the freedom to make their own decisions.

I must admit that I often get torn between making my marriage a successful one or my own happiness. The two do not always coexist! At the current time however, I have decided to submit to my husband because I like who he is better when I do. I'm just not sure how I feel about myself because of that decision. I believe only time will tell.
 
#189 ·
We talked about it for a while and I got him to agree that if he wants to be the one calling the shots, then he has to take all of the responsibility if something goes wrong. It costs to be the boss.

This is perfectly stated and should even be a thread unto itself!

Time and time in my typing, for all the attention that "dominance" and "spanking" words get, I wish more attention was on how often I mention ownership and responsibility.

Ownership and responsibility, this is the male dominance I speak of, and they are inseperable and to try to have one without the other, will only wither and kill both!

For every barb and private message I get from the feminist viewpoint to try to shame me about my dominance speak, understand I am also getting a barb and private message from a man trying to shame me for putting so much responsiblity on the man.

To both of these scenarios, I say tough, that's life, and that's sexual attraction works. Period.

All good men reading this, get this point. Anything worth having is worth working for. This is nothing new and in marriage and sexual relations it is no different.

In sexual attraction, the man strives to dominate, the woman strives to be dominated.

For the good man that wants to experience sexual attraction and emotional connection and radical intimacy from a woman, this is going to require effort and deliberate behavior. In courage and boldness and dominance and RESPONSIBILITY to pursue the things he is wanting.

This is the good man striving to dominate.

Likewise for the woman, is she is wanting to feel the sexual and emotional connection and radical intimacy for a man to the point of being inside burning on fire for such a man and herself feeling feminine and feeling contentment and not feeling insecure or needing to be some perfectionist, she is going to also require from herself effort and deliberate behavior. In courage and trust and responsibility to pursue the things she is wanting.

This is her striving to be dominated.

Yes, the same as what we call submission, but in behavior it is identical to the man, only to the point where the man has proving worth of trust will she trust him.

Submission is simply trust that the woman herself is of the mettle that she has attracted and won the good man himself with the mettle to be responsible and capable to meet the needs of the relationship.

And just for the sake of argument, these behaviors are practically identical from the good man and woman, only the reactions in each the man and woman are different regarding dominance and submission.

Where at the point where the good man and woman that are relatively matched and through courtship and fitness testing and sexual flirting begin a relatinship that leads to simply this, they demand respect from each other.

And the woman has continually put up her tests to weed out just any weak man, and her good man has passed these tests and this good man simply refuses to back down and the woman is from her nature and happiness and choice submitting, inside both of them is intense sexual attraction and contentment.

For the good man, the strong and beautiful and sexual woman that submits to him feeds inside him the sense of his sexual prowess, and his worth, and this is sexually satisfying and the good man will defend to the death the woman that makes inside of him feel in this way, primal and blissful and content. This is striving to dominate.

And inside the woman is similar, that she is strong and beautiful and sexual so much as she is attracting and winning the attention and devotion of the best of the best of good men, and inside her she is wanting to defend to the death the good man that makes inside of her feel in this way, primal and blissful and content. This is striving to be dominated.

So in this way, when a woman does not submit and her man submits, both of them are feeling dissappointment and they WILL each of them find other means to happiness than from each other.

And the woman that submits and her man does not submit, both of them are feeling sexual and content, and each of them will continue to seek and find happiness from each other.

So in this way, the woman is in her strength, the man is his his strength, and together they strive together growing closer and even pushing each other to new ways to strive and each together to be rewarding each other for the striving. This is sexual nature! :)
 
#177 ·
Marriage is about as perfect as the spouses in it. There are no perfect people, there are no perfect marriages.

Each marriage is as unique as the spouses in it.

There is no “one solution fits all” to any of the problems in a marriage.

Where there’s love there’s hope. Where there’s no love there’s no hope. When hope is gone it’s time to walk away.

Marriage is there to be enjoyed and invested in. And like any investment it needs watching and taken care of.

In long term marriages people change as they grow so the marriage changes. In long term marriages life’s experiences change the people, so the marriage changes. What worked yesterday no longer works today or tomorrow. To be successful in a long term marriage means to be adaptable to change because change will come. That’s guaranteed.

Bob
 
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