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Old 09-28-2010, 09:54 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by greenpearl View Post
Scannerguard

Finished your post sentence by sentence.
You are talking about something very interesting here. Women with high education tend to cause problems. You know what, after I finished your post, I agree with you!!!

I think they become more arrogant, more opinionated! They don't have the respect they should have for their husbands. So you always see successful career women with unsuccessful marriages.
Women with low education know that they are limited, so they are more humble, and that's what men want from a relationship( Hope I am not wrong). I still think men have the instinct to protect their women, not being bossed by their women.

And I think what people need is wisdom, not high education. knowledge is not wisdom. A woman with high education can be an idiot in many ways!!!

I am OK educated!
Even if educated women do become more opinionated, does that mean men should just sit there and take it? I don't understand why women are the problem in this scenerio. Women today have to be educated. We have to work. We can't depend on men to take care of us like we did 50 years ago. That being said, if women have raised their level of independence, why can't men meet them there? Why can't men rise to that level and STILL be dominant? As far as I can tell, women have adapted to the modern world and men haven't come up to that level. There is no reason why a man can't still put an educated woman in her place. Even if women are educated, they are still women. A man should be a man regardless.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:06 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Greenpearl,

Thanks for the compliment. Now. . .can you be the innocent student and I be the older, wiser professor?

Themrs,

Thank you for your additional thoughts. Your post was the perfect addition to my post, offering the "Yang" perspective. Yes, I imagine the "yes, dear" attitude doesn't work in corporate America too well, except, here's the kicker:

Women are starting to outperform men in corporate America, so much so, we may reach a point where we are surpassing the # of women working over the # of men working. Especially with the real estate collapse and construction workers out of so much work.

Corporations know very well a woman will do the same job, often better, and for less money.

So, speaking a business person myself, why would I hire a man, when a woman can do the same job, for better?

Why do I care if contribute to a declining marriage and society? I'm about profit.

Men can't figure it out what we are supposed to do in this society.

Perhaps one day with genetic engineering and this newly engineered society, we will only need eggs, no sperm and the male will become a lost genetic byproduct. A hairy, unevolved primate of years past who scratched himself, drank beer, and cursed at the Philadelphia Eagles
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:08 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I dated a lot of guys in college who were very nice, but wimpy as all get out. I remember going out with a guy who was in college with me. Very educated and nice. We went to the movies and some kids were being loud and obnoxious behind us. My date didn't do anything. Needless to say I didn't go out with him again.
And this is the bite in the @$$. As you said, gender roles are gone in the modern world. We are equals in everything. The way we are raised these days says that we are all equals and you don't NEED protection. If you don't like those rowdy kids, you will stand up and tell them yourselves! Or at least that is how we are taught. You can do anything we can do and you don't NEED us to protect you, and we don't need you to protect us.

Where this really effs things up is though this is the common held belief today it totally goes against baser level instincts over which we have no control.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:14 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Themrs:

Our posts crossed.

I kinda knew when I posted this controversial theory that some women would start to get threatened by my theory that education is the problem.

Again, to repeat - it's a boon for women but it has not been a boon for marriages. (that's the theory)

I just think, well. . .educated women are a little more of a burden for the married man. Knowing what I know now, when my sons someday bring a home a nice piece of tail and tell me "Hey Dad, I'm getting married. How about that?", I will take them aside and perhaps hand them this thread and tell them that you are about to have your hands full if there is a BA or a BS (or worse - a MBA, MS, MD or PhD after their name). In the meantime, I had better teach them what it means to be a man in this Brave New World.

I have even extended this theory to the fact when I remarry, I think I want a woman who is less educated than me as I start to scan "the marketplace."

Just a woman has a right to seek out an educated man, I think I as a man have a right to seek out an uneducated woman and not have to deal with all that.

Or I extend the extra effort on an educated woman.

But is it really worth it? What do I get out of it by extending the extra effort? Perhaps a better lifestyle. . .not sure what else.

Something I am meditating on.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:17 AM   #50 (permalink)
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So. . .I am going to float a controversial theory here. . .not that education per se has been a bad boon to women. . .it's been a good development for them. . .but female education has been a bad boon for marriages It may be that education gives women a lot of leverage in any social situation (and marriage is a social situation). So any woman that has a propensity for being controlling (and let's face it - that's a lot of women, maybe 60-70%?) and women who crave that conflict that BBW speaks of (maybe 60-70%). . .well crap, you often have a mismatch, especially when now. . .she is with a Nice guy.
My wife is a year or so away from finishing up her PHd, so I feel she counts as a highly educated female. Being a smarter female she's not as willing to put up with BS answers or the "Because I said so" stuff, I agree. She will let her opinion be known on a topic whenever it is up for debate. But, she will recognize reason, she will listen to my arguments and she will change her view when my arguments have merit. I LOVE the fact that she offers me a challenge. I have to have my arguments backed up and be able to defend them, and that's great!

My wife runs ALL over my brother-in-law and some of my other friends who are your typical "nice-guy". They don't understand how I can be as happy as I am with her. They think of her as difficult, hard headed and a bit ****y. Yet for me, I see her in a totally different light because I'm not afraid to step up and say my piece. I think that's why our marriage works, is I am confident, I am aggressive and my wife reacts positively to that part of my nature. I like to say my wife is like a shark, if she doesn't smell blood she's perfectly safe. If she smells blood though, she will go in for the kill and tear you up. :-) Yet to me, shes gentle, loving, caring and sweet. It's funny seeing my boys as they are getting older watch my wife and my relationship vs her relationship with her brother. I'm hoping through seeing me though they learn how to be that assertive, aggressive and caring man. As for the little girl I have coming? Oh man, that's gonna be a ride!!!

So scanner, I agree with your hypothesis as far as my "research" goes into the topic. But I will say I would rather have the educated, tough and challenging female rather then someone who is completely meek. I think with my personality I would tend to be overbearing to that kind of person.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:23 AM   #51 (permalink)
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And this is the bite in the @$$. As you said, gender roles are gone in the modern world. We are equals in everything. The way we are raised these days says that we are all equals and you don't NEED protection. If you don't like those rowdy kids, you will stand up and tell them yourselves! Or at least that is how we are taught. You can do anything we can do and you don't NEED us to protect you, and we don't need you to protect us.

Where this really effs things up is though this is the common held belief today it totally goes against baser level instincts over which we have no control.
*sigh* I understand. The saying goes nice guys finish last. Every man I've ever had a conversation with has said that the "bad boys" are the ones the women always want. It's true. I've dated my share of "bad boys" in my time. It was because they made me feel safe and protected and they were respected and feared among their peers. Even if they felt as if I didn't "need" protecting, they offered it anyway and I gladly accepted.

So while I agree with you that men are trained to think of women as equals, it doesn't stop nature. I naturally want to be protected by a man and he naturally wants to protect me. What's wrong with that? I think we should take what we like in today's modern world and leave the rest. That's what my husband and I do. Whatever works. There are many times when he is the primary caretaker of the children and I am the primary breadwinner, but I still TREAT him as if he was bringing home the bacon and he still treats me as if I know more about taking care of children than he does. Like the other poster said, it's all about respect.

I will admit, it's not easy. It would be much eaiser if we could follow traditional gender roles where I stayed home and did the mommy thing 24/7 and his only responsibility was to bring home a paycheck. But as you said, it's a lot easier for me as a woman to advance in the modern corporations (especially with my education level) than it is for a blue collar guy to find a job that allows him to support his family. I understand that, but it doesn't give me the right to treat my husband like less of a man because of the current economic climate and I won't. At any rate, he wouldn't put up with it if I did anyway.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:25 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Even if educated women do become more opinionated, does that mean men should just sit there and take it? I don't understand why women are the problem in this scenerio. Women today have to be educated. We have to work. We can't depend on men to take care of us like we did 50 years ago. That being said, if women have raised their level of independence, why can't men meet them there? Why can't men rise to that level and STILL be dominant? As far as I can tell, women have adapted to the modern world and men haven't come up to that level. There is no reason why a man can't still put an educated woman in her place. Even if women are educated, they are still women. A man should be a man regardless.
I am not trying to annoy you. But I do think marriages before the 60's performed better. Traditional families, father went out to work, mother stayed at home, families had good home cooked meals to eat, men looked after their families well. Now women have more education and more rights. What do they get? Happier marriages? No, the answer is obvious! OK, they are able to support themselves now, are they happier? I doubt it!

I agree that men should adapt to the change. Actually I mentioned this in one of posts here. Men should toughen up. But aren't there a lot of women who don't want that. They don't want men to hold doors for them. They don't want men to hold chairs for them!

I am glad that your relationship with your husband works very well. Happy for you!

No matter how smart women can become, they still need men to hold them when they cry!!! In the Bible, it foretold that women will crave for men. It is just our nature. We want men. If we want men, why can't we be submissive to men???
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:30 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Crysys:

Well remember, this is all just "theory and conjecture".

What will be interesting is to report back here on my experience with dating an uneducated woman, as I would like to date at least one as I shop.

I have recently been hitting on a medical assistant (relatively less educated - they do have a certification so I don't mean to demean that very necessary field). Anyway, she is below me in education - no formal college, or an advanced degree like me, just trade school.

I have to say I have never dated a less educated woman.

I call her up and she says, "How the phuck are you doing there, Scannerguard!!! Good to hear from you!!!!" I actually smiled on the other end at her well, "unlady-like" greeting. SHe is definitley a well, "country girl" but at times, I see some life wisdom come through and she has surprised me.

I think the risk for me is ending up in a Professor Higgins/Eliza (was that the character's name) relationship where I try to culture her. I guess that's a form of being overbearing.

So. . .that is a benefit of an educated woman besides a better lifestyle. You can take her anywhere.

But then again, I don't go cultured places anyway as a cultured, educated guy.

Deep down, I'm a hairy, football-watching, scrotum scratching male who surfs and just wants a beach trailer near the Jersey shore.

The bedroom will be the test

Last edited by Scannerguard; 09-28-2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason: I originally wrote "uneducated" and thought that was very terrible. Changed it to "less educated"
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:38 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Scannerguard View Post
Themrs:

Our posts crossed.

I kinda knew when I posted this controversial theory that some women would start to get threatened by my theory that education is the problem.

Again, to repeat - it's a boon for women but it has not been a boon for marriages. (that's the theory)

I just think, well. . .educated women are a little more of a burden for the married man. Knowing what I know now, when my sons someday bring a home a nice piece of tail and tell me "Hey Dad, I'm getting married. How about that?", I will take them aside and perhaps hand them this thread and tell them that you are about to have your hands full if there is a BA or a BS (or worse - a MBA, MS, MD or PhD after their name). In the meantime, I had better teach them what it means to be a man in this Brave New World.

I have even extended this theory to the fact when I remarry, I think I want a woman who is less educated than me as I start to scan "the marketplace."

Just a woman has a right to seek out an educated man, I think I as a man have a right to seek out an uneducated woman and not have to deal with all that.

Or I extend the extra effort on an educated woman.

But is it really worth it? What do I get out of it by extending the extra effort? Perhaps a better lifestyle. . .not sure what else.

Something I am meditating on.
I wouldn't judge you if you did go out and get a check out girl as your next wife. I'm not threatened by the theory that educated women make for poorer wives. I think there is an element of truth to it.

Still, what are women supposed to do? Women already feel like in order to attract a man they have to "dumb down" and make him feel like he's smarter than her. We already feel like even if we have a better solution to the problem, we'd better let our man figure it out for fear of crushing his oh so fragile ego. Educated women already feel as if men are threatened by their knowledge and opinions so many of them have opted to not marry at all. At my very office I know of two unmarried women who decided to go to sperm banks and bypass the man all together. It would never be my choice, but I understand why they do it.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:39 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Crysys:

Well remember, this is all just "theory and conjecture".

What will be interesting is to report back here on my experience with dating an uneducated woman, as I would like to date at least one as I shop.

I have recently been hitting on a medical assistant (relatively unedcated - they do have a certification so I don't mean to demean that very necessary field). Anyway, she is below me in education - no formal college, or an advanced degree like me, just trade school.

I have to say I have never dated an uneducated woman.

I call her up and she says, "How the phuck are you doing there, Scannerguard!!! Good to hear from you!!!!" I actually smiled on the other end at her well, "unlady-like" greeting. SHe is definitley a well, "country girl" but at times, I see some life wisdom come through and she has surprised me.

I think the risk for me is ending up in a Professor Higgins/Eliza (was that the character's name) relationship where I try to culture her. I guess that's a form of being overbearing.

So. . .that is a benefit of an educated woman besides a better lifestyle. You can take her anywhere.

But then again, I don't go cultured places anyway as a cultured, educated guy.

Deep down, I'm a hairy, football-watching, scrotum scratching male who surfs and just wants a beach trailer near the Jersey shore.

The bedroom will be the test


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Old 09-28-2010, 10:44 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I am going to play with my husband's toy and have some fun.
Your guys can continue and have fun debating.

BIG SMILES TO ALL OF YOU!!!!!

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Old 09-28-2010, 10:44 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I am not trying to annoy you. But I do think marriages before the 60's performed better. Traditional families, father went out to work, mother stayed at home, families had good home cooked meals to eat, men looked after their families well. Now women have more education and more rights. What do they get? Happier marriages? No, the answer is obvious! OK, they are able to support themselves now, are they happier? I doubt it!

I agree that men should adapt to the change. Actually I mentioned this in one of posts here. Men should toughen up. But aren't there a lot of women who don't want that. They don't want men to hold doors for them. They don't want men to hold chairs for them!

I am glad that your relationship with your husband works very well. Happy for you!

No matter how smart women can become, they still need men to hold them when they cry!!! In the Bible, it foretold that women will crave for men. It is just our nature. We want men. If we want men, why can't we be submissive to men???
I agree that marriages 40-50 years ago lasted longer, but I don't know how well they performed. I mean, it used to be acceptable for a man to cheat on and beat his wife and everyone would look the other way. Women had less rights and I don't know if marriages were necessarily happier then, it was just a societal norm for a woman to act one way and a man another.

Soceity changes. Women had to change. There is no getting around it. Have marriages suffered because of it? Yes. I absolutely agree with that. I think society as a whole has suffered because of women's liberation. But what was the alternative?

I think the modern woman has a hard time being submissive to men because it has become a choice. Prior to today, it wasn't an option. A woman had to be submissive because she couldn't make it without a man. She needed him in order to survive. Now, women not only don't need a man to survive but we can flourish without one! Now women have to choose to be submissive even when it's not necessary to their survival and it's not an easy choice to make.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:47 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I want to add something on this "less educated" woman.

Early on in my divorce, I was under terrible emotional distress, grappling with teh fact my wife was bringing another man in the house with my kids, almost immediately.

She offered me something this forum nor any educated person offered.

And it was so simple:

"You want a man in there who will be good to your kids. That's all."

So simple, yet so elegant.

So, while I may have more formal education, I think a partner who may work for me may be one who has less formal education (college) but one who has had a lot of life experience education.

I think that complements me.

All this serious "life stuff" - divorce, child support, dating over 40. . .I lived in an insulated world. I think a woman who lived in that world (had it hard growing up) complements me.

Sorry to talk about myself. . .just got me thinking.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:56 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Themrs:

I know I have the right to date who I want. I am challenging my own pre-conceived notion that I should be with a woman who is nearly my equal in formal education, that if I am with a woman who is less educated, I will have nothing to talk about. I would have never considered a "check-out girl" before;

Now PhD's over 40 and manless, guess what? You got competition if you are in the market for a partner. You are competing with the check out girl and I don't care if you did your thesis on the Political ramifications of Post-Cold War Reaganomics on the mating habits of Tse-tse flies.

I am not sure if I am asking the woman to "dumb down". . .perhaps just exercise their education differently in the confines of marriage.

I think it's the woman's job to be "council" in the marriage and that's what BBW and MEM et al are saying.

They can certainly be a "brainy council" (a hot secretary with hair in a bun and glasses librarian look in fact ). . .but that's just it. They are just council.

They are the President's Cabinet and the end of the day, your husband is President Obama or President Bush, depending on your political views and they should make it known by saying, "Whatever you say, Mr. President." And any President worth his muster should listen to his council and probably do what they advise 95% of the time.

So. . .the wife is right 95% of the time. . .but the wife let's his husband know in unequivicoal terms, it's HIS CALL, not hers.

Okay, I blew enough of my day here. . .I'll check back tonight on this interesting discussion.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:00 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Again, to repeat - it's a boon for women but it has not been a boon for marriages. (that's the theory)
You aren't alone in the theory. It has been expressed by a number of authors, females among them. Specifically, referring to Elizabeth Gilbert from "Committed: A Skeptic Makes Peace With Marriage"

To be clear ... very good for women, and the lives and opportunities available to women; not necessarily good for marriage. If women do the math on marriage there isn't a lot of upside if wifing and mothering supercede career and personal growth. Marriage is by it's very nature 'constraining'. If the parties cannot see and acknowledge that little nugget, it's going to be a rough ride.

themrs further illustrated the point with her anecdote. An educated and independent woman doesn't need a man for any of the conventional roles that a husband would fill for most of history up until the mid-twentieth century. They don't need a husband to support, provide for, or enable them to have children. I don't fear that woman at all. I applaud her. Might want to sleep with her. But I'm not interested in marrying her either
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