Modern Men (Warning...long) - Page 5
 Talk About Marriage
  The Marriage Advice and Relationship Help Forums
  right
Forums - Online Counseling - For Therapists - Link to Us - Advertise  

    A Public Forum Provided by The Family & Marriage Counseling Directory
Register FAQ Community Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

The Men's Clubhouse Talk about life's dilemmas.

Like Tree3Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-28-2010, 11:12 AM   #61 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,491
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

In the late 70s a professor of mine at college wrote a book called "Equal Marriage" with her husband.

It was thin, way too philosophical, and doomed to not sell. Those two knew nothing of marriage.

It was no shock when a few years later they divorced.

I wanted her to write a follow-on book, "Equal Divorce", but I didn't have the guts to ask her to do it.
michzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-28-2010, 11:13 AM   #62 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 870
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Scannerguard,

Thank you for your thoughts. I will try to reply in more detail as I have time, but as usual you have a interesting and bold way to express your ideas.

The taliban and other institutional repression to women, I simply oppose it and would avoid any comparison to institional oppression with dominance in regard to sexual attraction.

Institutional oppression merely props up many weak men over other women. If a man does not earned the respect he is looking for then he has not met his responsibility. This is not sexual attraction in the dominant sense that I am speaking of.

This is truth also in western countries with christian religion and parts of its own institutionalized oppression.

For sexual attraction in it's purest sense, it is only between one man and one woman should these things be played out, the man strives to dominate and the woman strives to be dominated, as the man must fight and earn the attraction of his woman, and his woman must be free to test her man, and if he is successful standing up for himself and all these things speaking of being dominant, then there is much sexual attraction between them both, and if he is not overcoming and instead avoiding or retreating then there is emotional distance and rejection to such a man, leading to resentment in the relationship.

This is fundamental of the definition of freedom and should not be forced from outside, such as institutiional oppression of women.

This attitude I have is the same as well to say to avoid an educated woman, in so I would not go this far, and of course for myself I would not worry about this at all.

But many good men have some assumption, even without his woman saying anything at all, that all women are of the mindset of some caricature of some angry feminist man hater. This is not truth and is an unfair stereotype as could be made.

Good men, understand this, do not assume any one woman or group of woman speak for all women, let alone your woman.

Instead, let your woman speak for herself, or be silent for herself, or let her own actions and behavior speak for herself what is important or not important to her.

The good man may find even in the most liberated and educated woman, inside her is the radically sexual and feminine lady that adores being sexually desired and protected by her man.

All good men, for your woman let her actions and behaviors speak for herself, and when as the good man it is your responsibility to pay attention and LISTEN!!!
BigBadWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:28 AM   #63 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,609
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

BBW:

I hope I didn't ever come across as forwarding the Taliban's political surpression of women. . .I was making an observation that their "overreaction" is perhaps an inevitable "overreaction" to the Westernization of marriage, a rejection of what is really not working either.

Here's the funny thing at this forum. We can all (you, me, et al) wax "wise" on this subject but religious, moderate clergy (Muslim, Jewish, Christian) have studied the subject of marraige for a long time and probably have reached the same conclusions we all have.

For all the discussion of sex and marriage and men and women and infidelty, it's rather ironic the "religion" forum isn't very frequented, isn't it?

Let me make it clear - perhaps it's timely that we are at a time in our country where we are assimilating "Moderate Muslims" and perhaps they have something to teach our society (and we them) about family structure, education, women, men, division of labor, etc.

I don't think our Ameican society, while it may be "just and equitable" right now with regards to men and women, is "sustainable." What we have isn't sustainable. . .even if women are able to provide for themselves, go to sperm banks. . .it begs the question:

What happens if they give birth to a boy?

Does she teach them that they are an abberrant genetic gender, to be antiquated in the near future?

I like that trio of words - "Just, equitable and sustainable." I use that trio a lot (picked it up on National Public Radio). Notice the choice of words - "equitable", not "equal".

The relationship of a man and woman should be "equitable", not equal. The relationship should be just and sustainable also.

I always say a sustainable partnership in business is at least 51/49, that way stalemates are avoided. 51% to the male, with the female offering 49% council.

Okay. . .I gotta really get off this forum for a few hours. . .would rather be here but should be elsewhere, LOL.
Scannerguard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:29 AM   #64 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Deejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

I just appreciate the clarity of BBW's and MEM's message.
They never stray far and wide from their core:

Odds are if you aren't getting laid regularly by your wife, there is a fundamental issue with attraction in your relationship.As a MAN, there are basic steps you can and should take to address that issue. A substantial reason you aren't enjoying intimacy is on you. It isn't 'all her fault'.
Deejo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:33 AM   #65 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Deejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scannerguard View Post
What happens if they give birth to a boy?
Bingo.
Deejo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:35 AM   #66 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 675
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

[QUOTE=Scannerguard;189141]Themrs:



I think it's the woman's job to be "council" in the marriage and that's what BBW and MEM et al are saying.

They can certainly be a "brainy council" (a hot secretary with hair in a bun and glasses librarian look in fact ). . .but that's just it. They are just council.

They are the President's Cabinet and the end of the day, your husband is President Obama or President Bush, depending on your political views and they should make it known by saying, "Whatever you say, Mr. President." And any President worth his muster should listen to his council and probably do what they advise 95% of the time.

QUOTE]

Hey, I'm not arguing with you at all. It may surprise you to know that I'm 29 years old and I've seen enough to know that this is what a man wants. Plain and simple. Unlike most women my age, I do not have a problem with it at all. I've never seen a company successfully run with two CEOs.

I consider myself a modern day submissive wife. I choose to be submissive to my husband because at the end of the day it's better for my marriage and it frees me of the burden of having to do most of the thinking. I have no desire to be in control, even though I know I'm more than capable.

One example I can think of that recently happened was our car broke down. My husband asked his "mechanic" friend to take a look at it and the cost he came back with was too much for us to pay at the time. Weeks passed and I found out that the "mechanic" my husband trusted wasn't really all that trustworthy, so I suggested he get a second opinion. My husband didn't think I was right, so I let it go. Months passed. We were working with one car to get us back and forth to work and the kids to school. It was hard, but my husband didn't think we had the money to get the car fixed. Finally, our other car went on us. We had to do something and since the 1st broken car was closer to a shop, we took that one in. Guess what? The car needed WAY less work than the "mechanic" had estimated. I was right and we could have afforded it all along. My husband was embarassed, but I told him that it was an honest mistake that could have happened to anyone.

I could have nagged him the entire 4 months I was out of a car, but I chose not too. I could have reminded him day after day that we needed the car fixed, but I knew he already knew that. I could have just had the car towed to the shop and payed for it myself, but I didn't. The key is I trusted him to figure it out on his own and I swallowed my own pride and convenience while he worked it out. That is being a submissive wife. It's ALLOWING your husband to make mistakes and not coming down on him when he does and it's not easy for most modern women to do. At the end of the day, I got to work every day and the kids got to school everyday and that's all that mattered.

I am an educated woman, but I'm smart enough to know that men and women are different. I'm smart enough to know that my strength as a woman lies in my ability to be feminine and obedient to my husband. It's a strength because it's my CHOICE. I don't have to be submissive, but I'm giving my husband a gift if I do and I'm taking the burden off of myself.
themrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:40 AM   #67 (permalink)
Forum Supporter
 
greenpearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,983
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Scannerguard
An uneducated woman can be opinionated and strong willed too.

I think women from western societies have become very opinionated because of the way they grow up.

I don't think Chinese are much better because we have that women men have to be equal thing going on too.

And a lot of women are so wrapped up in their career, they are ignoring their duty as a wife and a mother.

Where can you find a woman with wisdom?

I don't think it is easy, I am a pessimist in this area.

It took me five good years to study life. I actually studied wisdom as a subject. A lot of it is self studying, part of it from attending religious meetings. How many women there want to do it? Some women want to do it, but it is always after their marriages become shattered.

Religion is good for us in some areas, but bad for us in other areas, too. A lot of people stay away from religion now because they are so disgusted by the hypocrisy.

But good moral standards are always good for us. Basic family rules are always good for us!!!!!

Last edited by greenpearl; 09-28-2010 at 11:55 AM.
greenpearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:40 AM   #68 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 675
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo View Post
Bingo.
It's no good for a girl either! Women need examples of strong men. They need examples of how to be a submissive wife. A girl without a father in her life is just as doomed to be a controlling, nagging wife as a boy without a father is doomed to be a wimp.
themrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #69 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,609
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Oh, what the heck. . .while I am blowing my day. . .how about I offer another theoretical solution for our society and let you debate it for a few hours.

If we accept my theory as a given (and you all have been warm to it), but yet, to be "just", we know women deserve education, just as much as men,. . .perhaps the solution is this:

1. To be sustainable, women should focus on their reproduction/family/marriage while young.

2. Attend college later in life, after kids are raised and get an education for whatever motive - self-betterment, more money, etc.

Men, by contrast should get their education/trade squared away first for the family's to provide for young families.

This may take the man/woman competition out of the marketplace and at least restore some sanity to the institution of marriage and our American society.

Colleges wouldn't like it though. . .it's big business of which women are the greatest customers.

But it's a compromise between the Taliban with women and the total women's liberalization we face.

We need young women back in the home being the nutritionist and steward of the home.

Our kids need it.

Men, on the other hand, need to get out and provide.

It doesn't bode well for our society if we have men sitting around and not working.

Ever hear of pitchforks and torches?
Scannerguard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:50 AM   #70 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Deejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by themrs View Post
I am an educated woman, but I'm smart enough to know that men and women are different. I'm smart enough to know that my strength as a woman lies in my ability to be feminine and obedient to my husband. It's a strength because it's my CHOICE. I don't have to be submissive, but I'm giving my husband a gift if I do and I'm taking the burden off of myself.
There is a hot-button word in your post that I believe many of your independent, well educated, sisters would have a fundamental issue with. Of course the fact is, that it cuts both ways. I sincerely hope your husband shares a similar mindset in what he contributes to the success of your marriage. Kudos, seriously. Hope you go the distance ... or at least an equitable decade or two
Deejo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:53 AM   #71 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 675
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Scanner - While the men are getting their educations at 18-24, what are women doing during the same years? Are we marrying older men? That's the only way I could see the scenerio working - women would have to get married younger to men at least 6 years their senior.

It would work out better for women who want children because by the time you get out of grad school your prime childbearing years are over. We lose half our eggs at 27.
themrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:56 AM   #72 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 675
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo View Post
There is a hot-button word in your post that I believe many of your independent, well educated, sisters would have a fundamental issue with. Of course the fact is, that it cuts both ways. I sincerely hope your husband shares a similar mindset in what he contributes to the success of your marriage. Kudos, seriously. Hope you go the distance ... or at least an equitable decade or two
The hot button word being submissive, right? I know. I've argued with my college educated friends and tried to help them see the light. No go. They can't understand the premise of letting a man have his way even when they know they are right. I tell them I'd rather be married than right.

We've been married 6 years in Dec. I think we'll see at least 20 years. LOL! Here's hoping!
themrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:59 AM   #73 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,609
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

Themrs,

Well, I haven't thought my theory for America's ills all the way. .. but. . .well. . .Yes.

Isn't this what grandma used to advise?

There's an old saying, "No man is worth a dam until he's 40."

My father is 9 years older than my mother. All of my friends growing up had this discrepancy it seemed and their marriages were a success.

My marriage? She's older by 3 weeks and here we are - divorcing. . .right when I am worth a dam.

So. .what are men supposed to do for sexual companionship during those years? Well, a Cougar optimally.

See. . .if America would just crown me Emperor, I could have this all worked out
Scannerguard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 12:02 PM   #74 (permalink)
Forum Supporter
 
greenpearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,983
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

A woman should be like spring water, clear, smooth and peaceful.
A woman should be a sexy wife, fulfills her husband's needs.
A woman should be a loving mother, looks after the kids.
Then if she has some time, she can get a job and make some dollars.

But a man has to cherish her and love her forever!


Is it possible???????????
greenpearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #75 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Deejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Modern Men (Warning...long)

I kind of like the 'Brave New World' and 'Logan's Run' models.
Deejo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need some insight...warning this is LONG! Confused_and_bitter General Relationship Discussion 2 08-06-2011 08:49 AM
Modern Men Part Deux (long again!) Boogsie The Men's Clubhouse 28 10-02-2010 08:20 PM
Is Love enough? -- Warning this is long kpa_78 General Relationship Discussion 6 03-06-2010 07:23 PM
*Warning* Long Story lightcatcher Considering Divorce or Separation 8 11-05-2009 10:18 AM
:::WARNING WARNING::: this will be long clgfs32husband Sex in Marriage 37 02-07-2009 05:14 AM

Member Area

Find a Therapist:


Sponsor Ads





Get The Family & Marriage Counseling Directory Help Guide via Email:
Name:
Email:




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 PM.



Copyright 2007 - 2013 © Talk About Marriage