themrs

Scanner - My grandmother married a man who was 6 years older than her and advised me otherwise. She said he was boring and in later years when she still had energy to go out and be active he was sitting on the couch watching CNN.

I married a man who is only 6 months older than me, but I've actually read the happiest marriages are those where the man is significantly older than the woman (at least 5 years). Who knows?

michzz

Personally, my thinking has evolved to a point where I think the hows and whys and what fors of a relationship have to be worked out between the two people in question.

The main problem in getting to that working things out is the presumptions each has, the lack of awareness of those presumptions, and an unwillingness to give ground.

Blanket statements based on gender roles of dominance and submission just don't seem all that useful to me.

cherrypie18

I think BBW and MEM have perfectly described the type of man I would marry. I always knew that, but could never find the right words to describe it. So thanks

Regarding Scanner's theory about educated women. It is not just a theory. Actually, you shouldn't compare America or other developed countries and the Taliban. Taliban is an exception, just like those tribes in Africa that cut off the woman's genitals etc. They're extreme cases.

But if you compare the developed and developing countries, the divorce rate IS rising in the developing countries and only because more and more women are gaining access to higher education, and becoming more opinionated, independent and free. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but the men are failing to catch up lol

I have talked to many people from these developing countries too and they all complain about the rise in divorce and women being "bit**ier" than they used to, not taking crap from anybody including men. Not tolerating being controlled and abused by their men.

Education does change and has changed us women and how we treat men.

Scannerguard

Well Greenpearl,

I am only laying out a blueprint for my peasants as "Emperor." I am only suggesting what you all should do, not me, of course

When I am Emperor of the US of A, I expect for me to have many wives.

I want a brunette, brainy educated wife with her hair in a bun and secretary glasses.

I'll also take a Chinese woman who is submissive but a bit of an ornery streak in her.

I'll take a blonde "Kelly" who works as a check-out girl and an aerobic instructor, who keeps her in a pony tail.

A few others I am not thinking of.

And every night, each one could offer me council, in the bedroom, of course.



But for now, we should delay women's educations as a general rule if they desire family.

Hey, you women all entered the "Men's Clubhouse" here. Don't knock and enter and expect to be horrified Oprah once noted that with all of her interview skills and ability to land great interviews, how much of a privledge it was to sit with Tom Hanks and other men in a circle once and eavesdrop on their thinking and conversation.

themrs

LOL!

nice777guy

If an uneducated woman is abused or treated poorly, she is not as likely to divorce as a woman who knows she can stand on her own.

Increased divorce rates caused by "educated women" can be viewed as both a blessing and a curse when compared to developing nations, or to the "ideals" of our grandparents and older generations. Women in our society have more choices and are not forced to tolerate bad situations in order to keep a roof over their heads.

cherrypie18

Exactly. That is why the divorce rate is rising fast and families are breaking apart. There was a survey in 1 country where they said a lot of abused women do not leave their husbands mostly because they have no place else to go. And those loser "professors" said that it's a good thing in a way, otherwise there would be no families left in the society. So sad.

Educated women need to chill a little and stop competing so much with men and well castrating them in a sense. I have a bachelor's degree and I would love to get a master's one day, but it's not going to change the fact that I believe "modern" men need to get their balls back and be more dominant.

If you're going to be switching roles, women might as well start producing more testosterone and men estrogen, why not? Am I going to get bashed for saying that? lol

themrs

I agree. In our society however, women are 2/3 more likely to initiate a divorce than men. I guess they are making up for lost time.

It's unfortunate because most women who divorce aren't in "bad situations" because most men aren't abusive. We just have more choices now like you said.

Scannerguard

Again, I am suggesting a compromise here:

Delay education of women until later.

Let me ask TheMrs and other educated women. . .after paying $100,000 for college, do you see any compelling reason that your education couldn't have been delayed until let's say you were age 40, especially since women are living to age 80 and beyond now?

When we, as a society, need young women in the home at the age of 18 to 35, to be the steward of the home, to be the family nutritionist and combat childhood obesity on the frontline, is there any compelling reason as society to send women off to college to compete with men? Or could they at least just pick up a course here and there?

Isn't entirely workable that the "female body of knowledge" be kept among the older mothers and grandmothers vs. like how men do it - spread it out equally?

No one with any brain would now dispute that women can just about do anything men can do occupationally (and often better and cheaper). The question is. . .even though they "can", should a young lady do anything occupationally?

Is that the best deployment of human capital?

BigBadWolf

This is exactly like a point I try to make as often as I can.

To speak with words, sexual attractoin, dominance, submission, these things are not effectively communicated with mere words, just as music or colors or a brilliant painting or deep emotions are always more than just the words to describe them.

Your friends, they are taught to be suspicious of men. But that is merely the symptom, and until they are experienced in these things themselves, that is why I tell all good men and women, in matters of sexual attractoin, actions always speak louder than words. Pay attention to your friends as they move through life, what kinds of men do they marry, and how sexual is there relationship and how long does it last.

These things reveal the truth, never just the mere words reveal the truth.

Look, I am here to tell you this, as a man raised to never hit a woman, until I see with my own eyes the reaction of a woman being spanked (or in any other way you can imagine physically shown dominance even darker and darker things but I stick with spanking to be polite), to see how on fire she is become, until I saw this and experienced this over and over and over and over many times, does it really sink in what is going on.

This is my experience and many times this even in other experiences I am personally knowing, for a woman, to be of the liberal thinking and feminist believing, to be suspicious of men and even flirting with the idea of bisexual or lesbian, to all of a sudden be involved in the sexual relationship with a man that is unlike so many other weak men in her life, to experience for her such a man as to unleash himself without fear, and in her insides is on fire and released herself, so much as to be willing to give this man anything and everything of herself that he desires, to put this reaction and feeling into words, there is not just a little here or a little there to be taken or left, it just is complete and whole.

So it is never these 50/50 or equality talk, but always 100 percent as much as even life and death.

For her submission in this way, is not to even be done without much thought, it is a compulsion, much as we would eat when we are hungry or sleep when we are tired or pull our hand away from a burning flame that we were to touch.

This compulsion is evidence all around us, even in the most perverted and dark scenarios.

The woman who will leave a well to do family, children, and nice guy working husband for some seedy affair man with no prospects. Look around this very board.

The abused woman physically hit and threatened who will even fight the very police who try to arrest her battering husband. Read the newspaper.

The millions of prostitutes who will stay with some pimp no matter how notorious her own abuse or situation. Sadly this is all over the world.

All these things are this one thing, the compulsion of a woman to be attracted to this structure, the man strives to dominate, the woman strives to be dominated. It goes beyond logic and reason, this is beyond debate, as this structure is ancient and primal, emotionally driven in the deepest parts of our brains.

And I will type this since there is some tendancy to assume the worst from some readers, that NO I am NOT advocating violence or prostitution, these are simply examples of this scenario we see publicily and are aware of, of why logic and reason is rarely useful in predicting sexual behavior and why logic and reason and debate is often so confusing regarding sexual matters.

So powerful is the compulsion, to see how useful it would be instead to motivate the good man and woman to be happy and long lasted in marriage, that is the point!

So in this way, to strive in this way sexually is a active verb, this is an action we do as humans, it is not passive and is not a spectator sport!

To debate these things, may as well debate whether a river flows down stream or up against gravity. The only thing to debate, is how to find our own happiness in such things.

There is the VERY REAL physical reaction to sexual dominance and submission, but it must be experienced to understand, not merely spoken or written about. It is the sexual experience that must be experienced, and it is perhaps the most real experience there is as a human being!

Scannerguard

Well, you both hit upon my situation - my wife certainly wasn't abused (emotionally or physically). I was the "nice guy", a former "Modern Man", and she was "just unhappy", so even though I left her, let's face it - she did all she could to drive me out and successfully at that, by being "educated and difficult."

She figured she has better choices.

I wish her luck in her quest.

themrs

Your theory is flawed only because there are many career paths that women go into more frequently than men like nursing and teaching. We can't really delay the education of nurses and teachers until after their childbearing years. Nurses are already getting older and older by the year. We need a young workforce to replace them as they retire and I doubt men are going to pick up the slack in those areas.

Add to that there are a lot of careers that men generally occupied that do not need a college degree like a mechanic or plumber. Of course they do need training in those areas, but colleges in this day and age are full of women. They don't cater to the needs of men or the careers most men are interested in.

I would have had no problem delaying my education if I could have married a man who was capable of taking care of me with just the one income. Unfortunately, the standard of living in this country mostly requires two incomes just to stay afloat.

cherrypie18

Why delay it until you're 40 if you can be finished when you're in your mid 20s? Personally I got married after I graduated and I would not wait until I was 40 to do so.

I did not go to school because I wanted to compete with men, it was just the next step after graduating high school and at the time you don't think about marriage etc. you only think about getting a degree in order to be able to find a job and break away from the parents lol

michzz

The psychological manipulation of prostitutes using fear, physical abuse, and financial control, coupled with sexual abuse, drug addiction is so far away from discussing male and female marital roles as possible.

Healthy people generally do not want to be beaten. Those that protect their abusers are trying to survive.

Scannerguard

BBW,

I agree with your assessment of our "base tendencies" (as a generalization).

I think in the context of marriage though, you have to surrender some of your base tendencies as a man or woman because "marriage" is a civilized institution so while you don't think these arguments/discussion are productive, I think they are for finding that balance between our base tendencies and how we can be civil and "sustainable" as a society.

Otherwise, all (most?) men would be polygamous and dominating women much in my Emperor fantasy up there and acting uncivil (treating wife like a prostitute as per your example). In this, the "nice guy" does have some adaptable traits. Without the "nice guy", without "Good Kirk", you can't run the Enterprise either as it just become chaos.