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Old 10-30-2010, 08:33 AM   #286 (permalink)
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Default Re: Old but telling article about men doing housework (UK)

On the natural order of things... That men are *supposed* to act one way and women another.

It seems to me that if this were the case, there are a LOT of people acting outside of the natural order. One need only look to gay and lesbian people. While many a christian would like to tell you that homosexual behavior is outside the natural order, there is too much evidence within the animal kingdom of homosexual behavior to believe that that is true. Some scientists suggest that homosexual behavior is nature's built in population control mechanism.

I am pretty sure that no one would suggest that the behavior of a gut worm is anything but within the realm of what nature intended, if nature was sentient and had intention.

So I am not buying the natural order business.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:59 AM   #287 (permalink)
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Trust me when I tell you that I would resent having to puff up his ego with nonsense a whole lot more.
Oh, I agree with that. Like some women resent having sex with their husband. Or they resent he didn't do this, didn't do that years ago.

When it comes to resentment and opinions surrounding what caused that resentment, the XX genotype is stuff that legends are made of.

I totally believe you are capable of developing resentment in having to please your husband with admiration, if it were mandated.

You don't have to sell me on that.

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It seems to me that if this were the case, there are a LOT of people acting outside of the natural order. One need only look to gay and lesbian people. While many a christian would like to tell you that homosexual behavior is outside the natural order, there is too much evidence within the animal kingdom of homosexual behavior to believe that that is true. Some scientists suggest that homosexual behavior is nature's built in population control mechanism.

I am pretty sure that no one would suggest that the behavior of a gut worm is anything but within the realm of what nature intended, if nature was sentient and had intention.

So I am not buying the natural order business.
There is some latin name for this flaw of logic

argumentum ad verecundiam -

Argument from authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientists opining on matters of philosophy don't sway me one way or the other.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:12 AM   #288 (permalink)
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I totally believe you are capable of developing resentment in having to please your husband with admiration, if it were mandated.
MANDATED?!?! Ok I am going to ignore that you just implied I am just a *****y woman. Well no I am not.
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Scientists opining on matters of philosophy don't sway me one way or the other.

Nature is a matter of science. But then you don't WANT to be swayed because then you would be just another sexist dork.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:17 AM   #289 (permalink)
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My advice to you on the next go 'round would be not to chose anyone to bright, too highly educated or too liberal. Girls aren't all taught to flutter at mr man anymore.
I think that's good advice (although I am positive your advice is not offered in a spirit of kindness but rather sarcasm and an attempt at insult). Some other man can date a PhD or a MS/MA/MBA and have stimulating discussion into Alzheimers with her.

The next time I definitely not seeking an opinionated woman. It's okay at first, kinda stimulating, but after awhile, it becomes unattractive when your woman starts having opinions on everything from Aardvarks to Zebras. I just want to drink my beer as she talks.

It's not so much that the volume of opinions or the variety of opinions that gets to me as much as opinionated women take themselves wayyyyyy too seriously. I have a volume of opinions but I don't take them as nearly as seriously as opinionated women do.

I'd rather have fun and connection than intellectual stimulation.

If I want intellectual stimulation, there's the internet.

Oh. . .I was the first one doing the "implying?"

Turnabout is fairplay, Vthomeschoolmom.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:36 AM   #290 (permalink)
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I think that's good advice (although I am positive your advice is not offered in a spirit of kindness but rather sarcasm and an attempt at insult).
Of course it is. I bear you no ill will. Why would I?

I think the only thing ANYONE can do is try to find someone with whom they agree on the big stuff. I wonder if you live down south. I think you are more likely to find a woman who agrees with you in the south than up here in New England.

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I just want to drink my beer as she talks.
Good luck! I hear that religious, particularly fundamental christians are good for that. But I further hear they tend to be persnickity in the bedroom. But I don't know any personally.

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Oh. . .I was the first one doing the "implying?"

Turnabout is fairplay, Vthomeschoolmom.
I didn't imply. I called you a neanderthal to your face.
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:46 PM   #291 (permalink)
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I just wanted to explain why I seeked you out on TAM, it goes back to this 1 thread you started about honesty, I sent you a PM way back then just saying "Hi", maybe you dont remember, but I thought to myself -that lady thinks JUST LIKE ME!!

Is there anyone you're honest with???

Then I couldn't help but notice how much you stood up for Nice guys (I felt kind of alone on that), you had no qualms about taking BBW to task/challenging him a little, , I felt a kinship with you there, plus you are like me in the respect you desire alot of Attention from your husband. And your enjoyment of this board.

So i thought, why not, we had an awful lot in common.
Love that you are who you are and love that we connected.
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:47 PM   #292 (permalink)
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I didn't imply. I called you a neanderthal to your face.
heh
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:54 PM   #293 (permalink)
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Vthomeschoolmom:

I am not sure what your beef is with Christians (fundamental or otherwise) that you felt compelled to interject that into the discussion (yes, I know from past threads you hate Catholic doctrine/Catholics. . .I don't even subscribe to all, maybe most, of it - I just study it, am educated on it, and am fascinated by it if you are labeling me fundamentalist; I label myself as an Intelligent Designer if you need a quick label).

If you need to insult people (directly or implied) or persons to try assert your viewpoint, it denotes your position is very weak and you are simply getting all female-emotional with the subject, rather than just finding my opinion interesting and exploring it, like Brennan did.

The fact you overreacted to my Neanderthallness tells me that I think you just need to go draw a bubble bath, have a melon Wine Cooler, paint your toenails and you'll be just fine. You can even have a good cry in there and just get it all out. You see. . .if I were a Neanderthal, I wouldn't understand women so much like I do.

And in the future, try not to concern yourself so much with these subjects and explore more appropriate subjects. . .like the color of the living room drapes matching the furniture and how to get that ugly stain out of the carpet.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:14 PM   #294 (permalink)
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Default Re: Old but telling article about men doing housework (UK)

Alright guys....I took a step in the RIGHT direction and it felt great. Had a soccer game today. Hubbie is coach. He has been getting alot of **** from one irate set of parents and I just got fed up with it. They snicker and ***** on the sidelines and don't do a damn thing in a sense of volunteering or offering any constructive criticism, they just play armchair quarterback and have for years. After the game I walked up to both the Mom and Dad and told them in no uncertain terms that my husband is a wonderful coach, admired by his players, admired by the other parents and volunteers his time doing this and has for 9 years and what the hell have they ever done to contribute. I then told them if they think they can do better, then next year they are free to start their own team and give it a go. That shut them up really quickly and an apology came next. I told them that there is no sense in apologizing to me, it is HIM you owe it to. I had no idea but my husband heard the entire thing. They did apologize to him and before we hopped in the car, he spun me around, grabbed me and gave me a huge hug. He said "you were awesome out there, thank you" and he had a huge smile on his face.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:24 PM   #295 (permalink)
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There ya go! How proactive of you!

The only thing I could have added was telling them all he could kick your husbands ass any day of the week and twice on Tuesday and pointed to his arms saying, "Meet the Sherriff" and then to his other arm, "And this is his deputy!"

But. . .had you done that, he may have been escorting you to the bubble bath to soak
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:26 PM   #296 (permalink)
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Vthomeschoolmom:

I am not sure what your beef is with Christians (fundamental or otherwise) that you felt compelled to interject that into the discussion (yes, I know from past threads you hate Catholic doctrine/Catholics. ...
I don't hate anyone. My only real beef with fundamentalist christians is that they vote.

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If you need to insult people (directly or implied) or persons to try assert your viewpoint,
This is the end of my conversation with you. I was not insulting anyone. I converse with other home schoolers. Among the fundamentalist christians, it is part of some of their doctrine to be submissive to the husband. Since that is what you sound like you like, that is what

I don't know why you want attribute nasty motives to me. God FORBID you should take my words as written.

Peace. I am done with you.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:28 PM   #297 (permalink)
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You see. . .if I were a Neanderthal, I wouldn't understand women so much like I do.
I want to put in a for Scanner here. We've had a few conversations in the past, he is a Good hearted guy, even humble sometimes! He seriously means no harm. I think he understands women for the most part, very well.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:34 PM   #298 (permalink)
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Default Re: Old but telling article about men doing housework (UK)

Scanner,
These parents are real jerks and after every game the Dad walks up to my husband and tells him everything he did wrong. Hubbie stands his ground but doesn't ever fire back, which I think has allowed this to continue. I in essence stood up for him and I think this will help him the future in dealing with these idiots. There are alot of things I admire about my husband (as I have posted) and his dedication and ability to lead is one of them. I'll be damned if two non-contributors question those qualities in him. Grrrr. And yes, I wanted to slap the taste our of her smirking mouth. LOL.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:35 PM   #299 (permalink)
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I converse with other home schoolers. Among the fundamentalist christians, it is part of some of their doctrine to be submissive to the husband.
Oh I KNOW what you are talking about here, you R definetly in the minority of Moms who Home school -being outside the Faith. I know alot of home schooling Moms, this is a trend at my Church-that I barely go too. I met a Mom who homeschoold that was an Atheist, we had a great conversation about the things she deals with -with the fundamentalists.
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:59 PM   #300 (permalink)
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Brennan,

I think the lesson here to be learned was that I had a point (maybe I am not entirely right in my position (no actually, I think I am ) but just had a point) entirely that you did something that Southern Women and Asian women seem to understand intuitively or are raised that way culturally (I am from Joisey/PA BTW):

You stood by your man.

Vthomeschoolmom says women aren't raised that way and yes, I do beleive that is correct.

Too bad then; mothers are failing their daughters then (and I would say this falls 80% to moms - a mom showing admiration for dad is a great model).

Men can say they don't like that, that they don't respond to it, and I am oh-so-Modern and my husband is oh-so-Modern but I don't buy it any more than a Woman who says she doesn't want the door held for her and for a chair to be held for her. (in that a Southern gentlemen may understand women better).

I think this is a huge miscommunication of the sexes.

You are looking for "love", right? So you assume that your guy is looking for love too,right? In fact, you kind of roll your emotional dice on it and it comes up craps. No, he is looking for admiration. We don't seek the same thing for some reason, a gender difference, but the love will springforth from the admiration you give him.

And this may become a case of "Where you fake it until you make it." Yes, it will seem contrived at first but I bet you actually start having these feelings in due time. Like when you put on a new outfit and change your outward appearance, you start to feel better about yourself. You transform from the outside in.

If you examine failed relationships and successful ones (like SA's and Greenpearl), these are women who exist in awe of their husbands, who may really just be kinda average guys to you or me, a guy who is a tire salesman or something. But. . .but. . .I bet they are like Sally Brown around the house with them, hearts coming out and it's genuine.

In my failed relationship, it was yearrrrrssss since I remember her expressing any admiration for me other than, "He's a good father" And after awhile that just seemed to be a line like, "You suck but here's a consolation prize. . .you're a good parent - you know how to change a diaper.

But I don't think of you like a man."

Now I know what I want in a woman.

Are SA's and Greenpearls' marriage's perfect? I really doubt it. But they seem strongly founded.

I think you may have some direction and some foundation for rebuilding. Now if you give and give admiration and don't get love back, at least a little. . .then the ball's in his court IMO and we'd have to see what's up with him. But the hug in the car was a great sign IMO.

Circle around. . .try again.
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