I was just thinking what a shame it is that our best role models - our parents - hide so much from us as kids. Most of us have no real idea how marriage should work until we are knee deep into it.
I think it would be easier to have a clinical discussion with children about sex than it would be to discuss with them how to deal with marriage - the raw attraction, passion, compromise, conflict resolution, reality, apathy, lust, anger, temptation, etc.,
So absolutely true. We seem to allow our children to grow up with only a half clue on everything from the realities of sex, raising kids and marriage.
B) We are afraid to be honest with our kids - we shield them from reality as much as possible
True but I'm working to change this with my own kids. I want them to know so they can make better decisions whenever they are forced to make those decisions. They know, no matter what, we'll both be here to catch them if they fall.
True but I'm working to change this with my own kids. I want them to know so they can make better decisions whenever they are forced to make those decisions. They know, no matter what, we'll both be here to catch them if they fall.
Me as well, was talking to a close friend about this today as she was having a pity party about her past. Still, information helps. It would have been nice to know that fairy tales don't exist, a woman can only cum after working out her own body with a guy who understands this and that your boobs get really hard as a rock right after having a child.
The role models, or behavior, would be ideal to see. But careful that you understand all this, the irony of all this maybe, that these structures are real, the cause and effect is real, the unmentionable sex and reckless intimacy are within grasp of any good man that chooses to grasp it.
But the point of all this, for you, the good man, to become your own leader.
You are the good man your woman has fallen for, do not lose sight of this, never forget this, think of her as your biggest fan, because she is!
Do not believe even for a second you trying to become some other man.
If you see in hindsight your reaction to some fitness test is less than stellar, so what?
LIke learning a new musical instrument, practice again and again until it flows naturally, then just forget everything you studied tediously and practiced with deliberation, and instead use the instrument to speak what is in your core as if you were simply born playing like a master!
Fitness test, millions of men come and go on this earth never realizing the concept of fitness test their whole life. How far ahead of this are you now than so many other men that would given so much to even understand half these things?
Your woman, when she fitness tests, she is not fitness testing to see you fail, she is testing only to see the mettle of the good man she fell for.
Remember this, and behave only in this way, no other.
Pay not much attention to the words, but pay attention to your attitude and behavior, calm, confident, in control.
And make it your practice to discover and demonstrate from your own initiative ways to show your masculine mettle and dominance. This will reduce fitness testing, because when you do these things, there is no need.
Text message your woman your intense sexual desires.
Every day make it a point to communicate with your woman at least one success in your life. A success in your career, in your hobby or interest, some goal you have reached at the gym, etc.
Reduce the word "love" from your vocabulary, and subsitute with more detailed expressions of affection and desire.
Reduce the phrase "I'm sorry" from your vocabulary. Diminish the automatic apologies and deferments from day to day communication. An apology from you, if and when it happens, then there is no doubt it is genuine and sincere and it WILL be noticed.
Compliment your woman by complimenting yourself. "Aren't I quite an exceptional man for attracting/winning/f_cking such a beautiful/sexy/hot/desirable woman as yourself?" Find humorous and CREATIVE ways to communicate these type of feelings and attitude to your woman in some way every day.
Do something to give your woman something to complain about. The running, some other hobby, spend a little money now and then, come home a little later without saying so, give your woman a slightly ironic compliment (use humor!).
These types of suggestions, the good man that implements these sorts of actions and behavior and attitude, they are as passing fitness tests without waiting for them to appear.
Here I am going to say something about my husband's hobbies.
I need a lot of time and attention, in this area, I am also different from other women, so please don't be worried. I need a lot of time and attention because I used to have a strong sense of insecurity from my childhood. I didn't have a loving father, this is off topic. I'll stop here.
The good thing about my husband, he is able to give me all the time and attention I need. We are both private school teachers, part time, we each teach about 20 hours a week, plus commute and extra time at school, call it 30 hours.
My husband chooses to do things when I am not home. He used to like to go to coffee shops, he wanted to go there to read, I asked him why he couldn't read at home, he said he needed to get out and be around people even though there was no interaction. I didn't keep on asking him questions, as long as he spends that quiet afternoon doing things to make him happy and I had to something else at school. It is not like, I am at home, he goes to a coffee shop. If this is the case, I will go with him together. That continued for two years, every Tuesday afternoon, he would go to a coffee shop and just drink coffee and read. I was always happy to know what he learned and who he talked to that afternoon.
Then he wanted to buy his own coffee machine. I was like: " Are you sure you know how to use that machine". The kind of machine he wanted is not push button and coffee comes out. The machine he wanted was made in Italy. He had to do a lot of learning, a lot of stuff is manual. I had a lot of doubts at the beginning. I didn't want to waste money on something he doesn't know how to use. But as a man he is, he didn't let me stop him. He did a lot of research, then he told me he wanted to buy that machine. First he wanted to buy a second hand machine since he knows me to be very thrifty, that's money unnecessary. I told him to buy a brand new one, I told him: If you want to buy something, buy something nice, I don't like it when you have to have it fixed all the time. I hate the kind of hassle. He ordered one from Italy, it is a very pretty thing. He learned very hard, he practiced very hard. Now, I really respect him for being this determined and consistent. The Latte he makes for me from that machine is just superb. I didn't drink coffee before. After he bought that machine, I started drinking coffee every day. And now I can tell coffee from Starbucks really sucks, even other unique coffee shops can't make the kind of Latte he makes for me, he puts in a lot of effort and love making that Latte for me. I benefit from his hobby. And this year when he wanted to buy a coffee bean roaster, I said just go for it since I know he'll try hard to learn and he won't waste money like I do. I am very lousy here, I start doing something, I get excited at the beginning, then I get bored, then I quit, I waster money. I have never succeeded having a good hobby which I continue. I view studying English my hobby, that's something I continued. So I was judging my husband based on my own personality, I doubted him because I failed myself. My husband didn't give in to me, he continued with his hobby, he succeeded, I respect him.
This year, he started something new, using a straight razor to shave. You are a man, you know shaving. You know what you normally use, those kind of electric razors or Gellet. He wanted to use a straight razor. He bought something cheap from a supermarket, and he tried, he cut himself everywhere on the face, I had a good laugh, and I couldn't wait to tell his mom and dad about it. But he just kept on learning and searching for information. Again, he ordered one from Europe. Now he is doing a great job after two months of practicing. Again, he gained my respect.
He likes to read, he likes movies, he likes coffee, now he is into shaving his face with a straight razor.
All of his hobbies can be done at home. So he spends a lot of time at home. He gets to satisfy himself, I get to spend time with him together.
But in this area, I am different. I need a lot of my husband's time.
Women want security, they want faithful men. If you prove yourself a very faithful man, she won't mind it if you spend time away from her. My husband goes out and has coffee with his friends, I don't question. But you do have to find a balance. Invite her to go along with you when she has time. Every night staying out late is not a good idea, but once or twice in a week should be OK. She can come along if she wants to spend time with you, or she can find things to do herself.
Anyway, when she is busy doing her own stuff, you should use that time for your hobby!
He reminds me of Bob, where it's his way or the hwy. I think that what the men here have shared is very close to where I need to be. Fair, balanced, positive, in control emtotionally, and demanding respect.
How very wrong you are. I was with my wife for 42 years married for nearly 38. My way or the highway? You just haven’t got a clue. My wife brought me more joy and happiness than one man deserves in a lifetime and she was exceptionally well looked after and like me for the much bigger part joyful and happy. I was truly blessed to have my wife by my side for decades.
But you know like me you too may find you will get to the point in your marriage where it will indeed be for you, or your wife come to that “my way or the highway”. At the moment you have begun to assert and stand up for yourself, essentially the things in your marriage you will and you will not tolerate from your wife. And your wife will indeed respond to that and that response will be either positive or negative.
Your wife may very well become very much more entrenched in who she is at her very core and you may well not like at all what you see there and be unable to tolerate it any longer. It will be interesting to see if you have the balls to carrying on asserting yourself or leave your marriage.
I’m just not the sort of person who will be spoken to like a child or controlled. I’m just not that sort of person. It quite simply is not in my genes.
Here’s an example. I have a mate I played squash with once a week. I thoroughly enjoyed it, very competitive and a really good game. We’d been playing for about 6 months. I said at a dinner one evening “Still on for squash at 10 tomorrow?”. His wife stepped in and said “Your not playing squash tomorrow I’ve jobs lined up for you”. Know what? He didn’t play even though he’d agreed to play and knew nothing of the “jobs”.
About a month later as they were getting out of my car I said “Still ok for tomorrow?”. In jumped his wife again “He hasn’t asked me yet!”. I said to myself “A third time and that’s it”. It happened a third time and we haven’t played since. I absolutely refused to accept that my time was going to be controlled by his wife. My mate is a good husband, how he could let his wife get away with it I simply don’t know.
I have almost zero tolerance for belittling, demeaning, controlling women and I will do Nothing to Appease them.
That’s what you Nice Guys are doing. You are appeasing belittling, demeaning, controlling women.
And look where it’s got you. Seeking permission to go out for a run, or going for a run when your wife doesn’t know about it. That’s not “life”. At least not for me.
I recall a few weeks ago, I read something you wrote about your wife & it was VERY VERY moving, beautiful infact & for the life of me I could not understand WHY she would harber such fierce unrelenting resentment umteen yrs towards you- so bad that you & her are done. I have to wonder, since you say this is "in your genes", did you treat your own wife like this? I am sure every wife on the face of the planet, at some time, has done what your friends wife has done here.
My Nice Guy husband has never dispalyed your attitude expressed here towards me. He even tells his friends, who want help with their vehicles, or whatever, a drink after work, he calls me, runs it by me, many times he even tells them to 1st speak to the wife as I handle the family schedule, with 6 kids, it can be a little chaotic! And sometimes things really DO need done at home, a leaky faucet, who knows. I do not deny him his time with his friends, or outside fun away from us. It makes ME feel good inside that he cares THAT much to consider how I/we would feel 1st. I never told him to do this, he just has always done it.
If My husband ever came at me like this, this attitude I feel displayed in your post, I would feel as though he SPIT on me, even if I was in the wrong. I understand what you are getting at here, I really do. And some wives should not be like this, I agree. But maybe they have been put on the back burner one too many times also. I just have to wonder if this was ONE of the reasons your wife felt such resentment, if she did this a couple times & got THIS above reaction in return.
I very very much appreciate my husband for being the way he is. The problem is when the wife doesn't or looses sight of the Loving nature he gives day in & day out & abuses it's kindness.
You men all know business, so it is easy for you to understand.
But it is difficult for me to express.
He said good companies promote good corporate culture, they try very hard to encourage employees to show their best qualities. But bad companies use all the wrong ways to deal with their employees. Same people, they show their good side in this company, but bad side in the other company.
People have good side and bad side. What do you do to let them show their good side to you? This is ART!
I recall a few weeks ago, I read something you wrote about your wife & it was VERY VERY moving, beautiful infact & for the life of me I could not understand WHY she would harber such fierce unrelenting resentment umteen yrs towards you- so bad that you & her are done. I have to wonder, since you say this is "in your genes", did you treat your own wife like this? I am sure every wife on the face of the planet, at some time, has done what your friends wife has done here.
SimplyAmorous, my wife didn’t, not ever. It wasn’t due to my intolerance. It was due to the type of woman my wife is/was.
And no I didn’t treat my wife like that. I was way overboard with forgiveness, empathy, compassion and all those nice things. Putting up boundaries, things we will no longer tolerate has at times quite amazing effects. And it happens exceptionally quickly.
You men all know business, so it is easy for you to understand.
But it is difficult for me to express.
He said good companies promote good corporate culture, they try very hard to encourage employees to show their best qualities. But bad companies use all the wrong ways to deal with their employees. Same people, they show their good side in this company, but bad side in the other company.
People have good side and bad side. What do you do to let them show their good side to you? This is ART!
Jung calls it the “shadow” our dark side. We’ve all got a shadow side but most of us can’t see our own shadow although others can see and feel our shadow. Some people who think they are perfect and without fault wont even accept they have a shadow but if we’re into self improvement and individuation it is the best place to start.
In some ways this whole thread is about the journey of individuation for R2.
A lot of us in our late 50s and early 60s have accepted our process of individuation cannot continue while being held back by the unsaid rules of the marriage. No matter how hard and how many things we try compromise is no longer the way ahead because we’ve compromised the essence of who we are as an individual. We discover that in order to be who we are and keep on growing the only way ahead is to leave the marriage.
Jung calls it the “shadow” our dark side. We’ve all got a shadow side but most of us can’t see our own shadow although others can see and feel our shadow. Some people who think they are perfect and without fault wont even accept they have a shadow but if we’re into self improvement and individuation it is the best place to start.
In some ways this whole thread is about the journey of individuation for R2.
A lot of us in our late 50s and early 60s have accepted our process of individuation cannot continue while being held back by the unsaid rules of the marriage. No matter how hard and how many things we try compromise is no longer the way ahead because we’ve compromised the essence of who we are as an individual. We discover that in order to be who we are and keep on growing the only way ahead is to leave the marriage.
Bob
Bob,
It will be nice to have someone loving to take walks with us together when we are old.
I know it is difficult to change our personalities since we are old, but if we are determined to do it, I do think it is possible!
Will power!
Bob,
I have seen you posting very good stuff about your wife. Sound like she has a lot of things you like her about.
Is it possible for you to go back to her?
Will she learn to let it go and become civil to you?
Doesn't she want a man to be beside her now since she is old?
This is how my Nice Guy husband would have delt with me If I demeaningly was pi**y about some spilt dishwasher water - he would have said back to me "Who Pi**ed in your corn flakes this morning?"
He has used that line on me a # of times in our marraige. I feel this response is good, it pushes it back to me & MY attitude.
Re: Calling all MEN! I need your help! 
