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Old 04-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

Don't 'feel' normal.

Fatigue. Joint pain. low energy, sex issues ... my plan is to 'explore' HRT to see if increasing my T has some positive impact.

The pellets are a pain in the a$$, literally. Following my leg workouts, I invariably have a good deal of soreness, and even continued bruising in the area they were implanted on my derrier.

Think I'm going to try injections.
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Old 04-05-2011, 04:07 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

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Don't 'feel' normal.

Fatigue. Joint pain. low energy, sex issues ... my plan is to 'explore' HRT to see if increasing my T has some positive impact.

The pellets are a pain in the a$$, literally. Following my leg workouts, I invariably have a good deal of soreness, and even continued bruising in the area they were implanted on my derrier.

Think I'm going to try injections.
Sounds like the right move.
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:38 PM   #78 (permalink)
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The pellets are a pain in the a$$, literally. Following my leg workouts, I invariably have a good deal of soreness, and even continued bruising in the area they were implanted on my derrier.

Think I'm going to try injections.
A trocar seems to be a radical solution. And injections need to be done by a nurse, no? Are you looking for a target range? Anything over 700 is generally abuse.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:42 PM   #79 (permalink)
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A trocar seems to be a radical solution. And injections need to be done by a nurse, no? Are you looking for a target range? Anything over 700 is generally abuse.
Then consider me abusive. Discussions with my MD, we were shooting for around 800 ng/dl
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:27 PM   #80 (permalink)
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800 range?

Join the club.

Watch out what you wish for.

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Old 04-06-2011, 11:53 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Some pretty miss-informed responses.

1) tests are all different in terms of ranges. The majority use a 200-1000 range.

2) 800 IS NOT abuse. The range is 200 - 1000. By that logic, if 800 is abuse, 430 could be termed neglect.

3) Most men feel better in the range or 600-900, at 400 most if not all feel sluggish, lazy, fat gain, tired. Almost all I have worked with (90&) had those symptoms disappear when they were in the upper range.

4) Shots do not need to be given by a nurse. They will instruct you on how to perform them.

5) "800, good luck", if a male is at say 300/400, a level of 700/800 can easily be acheived by a single shot of 200mg test a week. About 90% of males can acheive this result. A few require more, a few less. A estimate does is first given, and peformed for a min. of 4 weeks, and blood is retested. Then adjustments are made.

I need to qualify some of my comments. Testosterone therapy is not the solution and end all for all your symptoms. At the age of 40-60, you will not feel like 20 again. It will make you feel better, but dont expect a miracle.

I have been around HRT for almost 17 years and help/worked with many folks (also women). Modern day medicine is based on making money, not helping lives. Pellets, gels do work, but thier intent is a re-marketing of an old product. This really isnt that difficult to do as doctors make you believe. But, it is critical to find a doctor or anti aging clinic that deals soley with this. Most doctors today simply dont get it.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:19 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

@ 800-1000 have fun going Chris Benoit on someone.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:30 PM   #83 (permalink)
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@ 800-1000 have fun going Chris Benoit on someone.
RLD, honest to God, many of your posts make me laugh out loud ... in a good way. I like your humor. I also think your wife is crazy but that's for another thread ...

I have sincerely tried to do my due diligence in this regard. Minncouple has been a great resource and sounding board.

I am hopeful that HRT will mitigate some of my symptoms. I have no expectation of magical elixir results.

I would like to resolve my sexual issues. I would like to be able to continue working out without the joint pain I have picked up in the last 2 years, and I would like to know if it has an impact on my energy level and ability to stay focused.

Watched a documentary on Netflix called Bigger, Stronger, Faster
Great documentary about performance enhancing drugs, told (in my opinion) equitably and fairly, by a non-user. 'Roid Rage' and the Benoit case, along with others, was addressed. They even showed footage from some old Ben Affleck movie where he busts up rooms and throws women around ... all due to taking anabolic steroids. According to the research, this simply isn't true. Again, I don't state that as an advocate. I don't know if I'm an advocate yet. But I do want to be informed.

I have been trying to do more research online, and have found Minncouple's opinion echoed elsewhere. That the pellets and gels although different methods of delivery, accomplish the same thing as intramuscular injections ... only they are much more pharma friendly, meaning they are cash cows.

I did discover an Aging Center in Boston, and I may make an appointment with these folks. My urologist just hasn't been terribly responsive. Can't shake the feeling that he is more into marketing than problem solving.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:38 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

It's a bummer how much influence big pharma has.

This is from a pharmacist.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:56 PM   #85 (permalink)
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@ Runs like Dog - Completely ignorant statement. Benoit was an abuser of many many recreational drugs. The media jumps of the steroid issue every chance it gets. They neglected to discuss the extasy, cocaine, opiates, and other prescip drugs he was using in very high doses. In addition, the autopsy's show brain damage due to the years of abuse on his body due to wrestling, of which are a factor in his behaviors Similiar to how football players are now in the limelight.

Deejo - Bigger, faster, stronger is not bad documentary, but be clear in watch yoru watching. These guys were part of the bodybuilding world and using very high doses. While HRT is like having one cup of coffee, these guys were drinking gallons of coffee. It really needs to be looked at for what it is.

I was/am those guys in that movie. I began steroid use at age 22, and have not stopped. I have though, educated myself through trial and error and also through inside the body building community. These guys are the leading edge in steroid use, they are the subjects through trial and error. Sad for sure, but its the truth.

I stopped using high amounts at age 35, and now simply maintain with HRT. I can attest to many pro bodybuilders usage, it is unbelievable. HRT is in the range of 200-300 mg's of test a week, and maybe an anti estogen. Pro's/wrestlers are using on average of 2000-3000 mg test, 400-600 mg's Tren, Anadrol 50's at 3 a day, and 6-10 IU's of growth a day. A pro will maintain a blood level of at least 2500-3000, yes that is right. While you are shooting for 800, these guys are 3-4 times that. I have sppken with many top athelete's, they sweep it under the carpet, but it happens.

Main stream doctors are not properly educated in HRT, maybe 10% out there understand it. A reputable anti-aging clinic is the best source.

I'm not trying to be an advocate for HRT or steroids, I really dont care if someone wants help or not. But, I will speak the truths about it if asked.

It's not the use thats wrong, its the abuse.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:45 PM   #86 (permalink)
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It occurs to me you're using some kind of different test other than the one typically employed by a urologist for your baselines or you're looking at an un normalized distribution. 1000 is in the 95% for a healthy non diabetic man age 25. A median value for a normal distribution for a man age 40 is about 450. There are some doctors who work with HIV patients who recommend very high values. And of course the MDs who work with iron monkeys tinkering with anabolics are advocating numbers higher than 1000-1200.

I'm not an MD AFAIK no one here is. I recommend you find one.
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:44 PM   #87 (permalink)
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@ Runs like dog

It is actually a universally used test, and peformed through Labcorp.

Tests are: Testosterone (free & total), complete CBC with differential /platelet, comp. metabolic panel (14), lipid profile, estradiol, prostate-specific ag, serum, Ambig abbrev CMP14 default.

The distribution is one in the same as you metion in your post below. Based on a Labcorp test range (200-1000), I am really not sure or clear on your points. In addition, your percentages are incorrect. Based on a (labcorp/Mayo clinic) blood panel the range is 200-1000, thus 600 is a median and 1000 is 100 percentile of the range. I really cant tell you what a "normal" range is for a 40yo male, but I do know that most 40 yo males experience the side effects of lower testosterone levels. Thus, raising blood levels (still within medically acceptable "normal" limits) does help the individual.

I think you are believing that "normal" and "feeling better" are one in the same, they are not. We are discussing two seperate issues here.

As far as AIDS research and muscle waisting is concerned, the primary medications being used are; Anadrol, Anavar, and HGH, not soley testosterone. Testosterone used alone did not combat muscle waisting in AIDS.

My doctor is one of the leading authors on Anti-aging means/methods/practices, no need to be replaced.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:19 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

Bumping a good thread.

My H told me today he has low testosterone but wants to find a natural solution. Hmmm. I am going to ask him exactly what his level was now that I've read this.

Thanks for all the helpful info.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:25 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

Deejo,
Do you take calcium vitamins? Those have helped a LOT with joint pain over the last decade. When I consistently combine calcium and load bearing exercise it seems to strengthen my joints. I use Caltrate. I also take a centrum silver every day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo View Post
RLD, honest to God, many of your posts make me laugh out loud ... in a good way. I like your humor. I also think your wife is crazy but that's for another thread ...

I have sincerely tried to do my due diligence in this regard. Minncouple has been a great resource and sounding board.

I am hopeful that HRT will mitigate some of my symptoms. I have no expectation of magical elixir results.

I would like to resolve my sexual issues. I would like to be able to continue working out without the joint pain I have picked up in the last 2 years, and I would like to know if it has an impact on my energy level and ability to stay focused.

Watched a documentary on Netflix called Bigger, Stronger, Faster
Great documentary about performance enhancing drugs, told (in my opinion) equitably and fairly, by a non-user. 'Roid Rage' and the Benoit case, along with others, was addressed. They even showed footage from some old Ben Affleck movie where he busts up rooms and throws women around ... all due to taking anabolic steroids. According to the research, this simply isn't true. Again, I don't state that as an advocate. I don't know if I'm an advocate yet. But I do want to be informed.

I have been trying to do more research online, and have found Minncouple's opinion echoed elsewhere. That the pellets and gels although different methods of delivery, accomplish the same thing as intramuscular injections ... only they are much more pharma friendly, meaning they are cash cows.

I did discover an Aging Center in Boston, and I may make an appointment with these folks. My urologist just hasn't been terribly responsive. Can't shake the feeling that he is more into marketing than problem solving.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:13 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dealing with Low Testosterone - Hypogonadism

Take a multi, fish and flax oil, cal, mag, zinc supplement and Glucosamine.

The joint thing has become very noticeable over the last 12 months. Particularly my hips, after giving the kids a piggy back, or doing squats. Also my forearm/elbow junction, most noticeable when doing pull-ups, pull-downs, or curls.
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