Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by sisters359
Zammo, you were the one who implied that "strength and independence" weren't feminine; the logical implication, then, is that feminine = weak (not strong) and submissive (dependent, not independent) We hear a lot of on this site.
You are specifically using politicized words - "weak" and "submissive" to bring about an emotional response. It's a clever tactic but easily spotted and brushed aside by those who can recognize emotional, not logical arguments.
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I wasn't trying to shame you by saying you may have low-self-esteem; I was actively saying it as a possibility you should investigate. It's something that happens a lot here-many of us can spot low self-esteem a mile away. Am I always right? Nope. But your hostitilty and defensiveness pretty much says more than anything else I can say.
Ah, so you have downgraded shame to concern, barely. Google the term "concern troll". You're still using shaming language, regardless. Argue the message, not the messenger. You're in the men's clubhouse now. Logic comes first, reason comes next, and emotions are a distant third.
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And you still don't get it--a confident woman isn't trying to "catch" or "attract" a man--she's living her life, joyously. And when a good man happens by, she will know and make room in her life. What you are suggesting is very explicitly a strategy for "attracting a man"--any man, really, and yes, there is something "wrong" with that. What you suggest sounds a lot like "The Rules," and I was very much saying that a confident woman doesn't play those games or ANY games to "attract" a man. She is herself. If that isn't good enough, she is ok with that. But guess what? It IS good enough.
And you're still recommending a passive approach that women should take regarding attracting and meeting men. Based on the biological imperative, I am absolutely recommending that a woman do what it takes to attract a man if that is what she wants. As well, I would like to know very specifically why you consider a woman actively seeking love and an intimate relationship as something that is "wrong".
Ironically, you are arguing a traditionalist approach to finding love and an intimate relationship: a woman waits passively (but busily) by hoping for Mr. Right to "happen by". What if by "being herself", she is finding herself not in a wonderful and intimate relationship with man?
As an aside, would you counsel a weak, not confident man to "be himself" when he would like to find love and intimacy with a special woman? Or should he remain lonely and unhappy?
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Yeah, the angry self-absorbed ball-busters may be alone, but the rest of us who are truly strong, self-confident, and independent, don't have any trouble meeting the kind of men we like.
And what kind of men are you attracted to on a biological level?
A word about those strong, confident, successful men. They are used to taking the lead and making decisions in the office and at home.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
I think it patently clear that Sisters is very happy without a man in her life. What more could a man possibly add to Sister’s life?
The problem I’ve seen with that is that some women who live alone without a man quite simply become used to that way of life. They get used to being in their home, by themselves and can’t even begin to imagine a man encroaching on their “territory” and in some way or another “messing it up”. This only takes two or three years and then it becomes their way of life, undisturbed by “man”. They’ll never go out and actively attract a man in or do anything different to make themselves more appealing, to men. That is they wont change their “game”. In fact if they’ve reached this stage they’ll probably do things to make themselves unappealing to men.
If they do eventually get into “game playing” it’ll be very clumsy and very unnatural. I know, I’ve experienced it.
And it is usually the extremely strongly independent and strong minded woman that feels this way. And the longer it goes on that way the more they like that way of life. These women are more or less untouchable to some men quite simply because the woman does nothing whatsoever to attract them. It’s like they have a big “hands off” sign on their forehead. They spend the remainder of their life without a man in their home. Many have their “special man friend” but will never actually live with them.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
When I say I am feminine, please don't assume that I am weak as a woman who doesn't know how to deal with the public. I hold a job very well, I run my life very well.
When I say I am submissive to my man, please don't assume that I don't know how to get women's rights. I get a lot.
But when I talk to my husband, my tone is sweet, I let him know I need his protection. I let him know that he has to be strong to protect me. A weak woman makes a strong man, a strong woman makes a weak man, my opinion. I can't f**k like a man, I need a strong man.
Some women can keep their men by being able to have intellectual conversation, some women can keep their men by being good mothers to the children, some women can keep their men by being great in bed, some women can keep their men by being a vase...............But it all require the women to be respectful towards the men.
Men have to do a lot now to keep their women, I am glad about this change.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
Being 61 and the age of 50 being in my “mix” I find this whole topic very interesting.
The questions I ask myself are “what is “age”” and what do women of 50 or thereabouts actually need a man for?
From an age point of view I see “number of years” and quite a few other things. A woman of 50 can have the “attitude” of someone who’s already retired and given up the ghost, the maturity of a 20 year old, the body of a 25 year old and the get go of a 25 year old etc. etc. So biological age is not the real issue, at least to me it isn’t. And surely these things are the same for men. For example I’ll take anybody on of any age at squash (racquets) or tennis and if I don’t win I’ll give them a very good game. I know men of my age who can’t even walk around a golf course and have difficulty getting in a buggy. But that’s not me.
A woman of 50 is very different to a woman of 20 in that she is no longer looking for a father for her children. She may well indeed still have dependent children and any future partner will need to be supportive of her “family”, at the very least in an emotional sense.
But what else will she be looking for? I don’t think it’s a lot different to what men are looking for. In essence a person to have fun with and enjoy life with. To make plans with and to do things with, sports, special interests like archaeology etc., house renovation etc. etc. etc. And of course a person to go to bed with and a person to wake up next to.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by greenpearl
When I say I am feminine, please don't assume that I am weak as a woman who doesn't know how to deal with the public. I hold a job very well, I run my life very well.
When I say I am submissive to my man, please don't assume that I don't know how to get women's rights. I get a lot.
But when I talk to my husband, my tone is sweet, I let him know I need his protection. I let him know that he has to be strong to protect me. A weak woman makes a strong man, a strong woman makes a weak man, my opinion. I can't f**k like a man, I need a strong man.
Some women can keep their men by being able to have intellectual conversation, some women can keep their men by being good mothers to the children, some women can keep their men by being great in bed, some women can keep their men by being a vase...............But it all require the women to be respectful towards the men.
Men have to do a lot now to keep their women, I am glad about this change.
GP, take it from me, you are one very feminine woman and very refreshing too.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by greenpearl
When I say I am feminine, please don't assume that I am weak as a woman who doesn't know how to deal with the public. I hold a job very well, I run my life very well.
It's called "self reliant" and it's very alluring. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "strong and independent" is code for "bossy and domineering", traits that are repellent to men, regardless of social expectations.
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When I say I am submissive to my man, please don't assume that I don't know how to get women's rights. I get a lot.
The word "submissive" is quite laden with negative connotations given today's social expectations. Use that word at your own risk.
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But when I talk to my husband, my tone is sweet, I let him know I need his protection. I let him know that he has to be strong to protect me. A weak woman makes a strong man, a strong woman makes a weak man, my opinion. I can't f**k like a man, I need a strong man.
And so you shall reap the wrath of those who embrace contemporary social expectations and refuse to understand the biological imperative.
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Some women can keep their men by being able to have intellectual conversation, some women can keep their men by being good mothers to the children, some women can keep their men by being great in bed, some women can keep their men by being a vase...............But it all requires the women to be respectful towards the men.
Men have to do a lot now to keep their women, I am glad about this change.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
Zammo, you still do not understand. When a woman is unhappy and lonely "because she does not have a man in her life," the solution does not lie in "attracting a man." "Attracting a man" to address the problem is like putting a bandaid on an arterial bleed; it does nothing to fix the real problem. The real problem is that the woman does not love herself and she is defining herself by whether or not she has a man. The advice you recommended fed into those self-doubts and offered no real solution and, worse, recommended something that would only exacerbate poor self-esteem.
If you could stop the attacks on me and engage on the merits of this question, I'm sure others would appreciate it. Oh, and yes, if a man was unhappy and lonely b/c he didn't have a woman in his life, I would not suggest he just get a woman, problem solved! I would suggest that he learn to love himself enough to be happy alone and then the rest would take care of itself one way or another.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by sisters359
The real problem is that the woman does not love herself and she is defining herself by whether or not she has a man. The advice you recommended fed into those self-doubts and offered no real solution and, worse, recommended something that would only exacerbate poor self-esteem.
You're joking, right? Do you sell cats? I offered real, positive advice and you rejected it out of hand.
Self doubt is a great motivator for introspection.
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If you could stop the attacks on me and engage on the merits of this question, I'm sure others would appreciate it. Oh, and yes, if a man was unhappy and lonely b/c he didn't have a woman in his life, I would not suggest he just get a woman, problem solved! I would suggest that he learn to love himself enough to be happy alone and then the rest would take care of itself one way or another.
Worst. Advice. Ever. "Love yourself" is the the rationalization hamster spinning its wheel at light speed. That poor creature will die!
And nice try on the "attacks at me"... Again with the emotional "logic". You're in a part of this forum for men and you're using emotional logic. Try again.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by sisters359
And AFEH, why do you say is it a "problem" if a woman becomes used to being alone? Is it also a problem if a man becomes used to living/being alone?
At my age I can and do talk from personal experience. I don’t talk statistics.
I personally know women who are alone, have been that way a long time and do not want another man in their home because they became used to living without a man. These are family, friends and acquaintances. I do know that the “special man friend” of some 15 years or more of one of my relatives wants to move in with her.
I do not know any man who does not want his woman in his home. And I don't know any man of any age who actually wants to live without a woman.
Geesh. When one women came into my home she started moving the furniture around and put some big paintings I have up on the walls (well she asked me to do it lol). But the room looked far better after her “adjustments”. That’s what I mean. I know my life will be far more fulfilling for me with a woman in it. Just not ready as yet for the hassle that goes with it lol.
I also know women who have lived on their own for a long while and very much want a man … in their home. It is that “want” thing, a need that can only be satisfied … by a man. And I don’t mean just sex.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by sisters359
Nothing is sacred on TAM; you'll have to get used to that if you decide to stick around.
And yes, I rejected your advice because it was lousy, in my opinion. That happens a lot here, too.
Of course things are sacred on TAM. Of course they are.
Personal attacks are not allowed and result in a ban.
Boundaries, very sacred things those, are to there to be respected.
As are the personal opinions of other members no matter how much you disagree with them, they’re sacred too as they are what make us all unique individuals and in great part define who we are.
These sacred things are after all what make TAM the place it is.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long
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Originally Posted by Zammo
And what are women doing to keep their men?
If they are not doing anything to make their men happy, we know the result! They might be able to keep their men for a couple of years, but they are going to lose their men in the end. If a woman doesn't do anything to make her husband happy, even though they live together, they are emotionally remote. VICE VERSA.
On TAM, I have read posts from quite a few sacrificing women. I am happy to see, it means I have company.
Men or women, should never think that their spouses will stick around forever without putting much effort into the marriage.
In China, we say that we have to do things to KEEP OUR SPOUSES, KEEP THEIR HEARTS.
Re: Response to finding a woman finding love at 50....Long 
