Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
If your wife is still willing, I would recommend therapy again, maybe with a different counselor.
In fact if one or both of you have gone to the C individually, you should start fresh with someone new.
I understand the perception that it "favors women," but since you really want to improve your marriage, you have to be open to the process.
I purposely found a male therapist to work with my H and me, so he wouldn't feel like I'm being "favored."
I can honestly say that sometimes the counselor focuses more on me and other times more on my husband.
It depends on what he perceives between us.
Sometimes my ego wants to dispute when he focuses on ME, but I have to remind myself to be humble and look at my own stuff if I want this to work.
I think that sometimes a counselor will actually look first to the partner who's more open or willing to adjust in a given moment, rather than tackling the one posing the challenging behaviors---like your wfe's disrespect of you.
Also---some are simply smarter, fairer, and better than others.
It sounds like you are an openminded and flexible person who really wants improvement with your wife.
Give counseling another chance.
Even if it means letting your wife go through one or two sessions where it seems that she's "favored."
Be patient with that. It may be that the counselor needs to be more gradual and careful with the tougher partner. But if they're good, they'll get to the stuff they need to.
I think our counselor did that with us---I'm the wife, and I definitely did not feel favored, even when I made valid points and my husband was difficult!
I'm starting to understand that the counselor couldn't go after my H's issues in the first few sessions, because he had to establish trust with him first.
If one partner spends the whole session griping about the other one--as your W did to you and my H did to me 2 nights ago-- the counselor may need to take it all in and address it in the next session.
I know your W is in the wrong a lot, but as our C says, "there are always two answers," and I need to own the part I play in the problems, even if I feel justified in my side.
The counselor may also be necessary to call your wife out on her fitness testing and poor treatment of you.
Right now she's not respecting you.
She may need the pov of a third party whose pov she WILL respect, and perhaps only after that person has established a trusting relationship with her and you both.
Hang in there, and do any and everything you can to make things better! Posted via Mobile Device
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
jonny,
If somebody else is laughing at you, please don't let it bother you.
As children, we can't run to our mothers all the time when we have problems. Our mothers teach us to solve our problems by ourselves. By stumbling, failing, and standing up, we find ways to win.
Now as adults, same thing, we can't expect others to help us all the time when we have problems, we can't go to a marriage councilor whenever there is a small problem. We have to find solutions ourselves. By searching, learning, applying, we find solutions.
Manning up is very important when you are with a demanding wife. This is not a game, this is not teaching you to be rude to her. This is to help you to be manly, to be confident, to be happy. Only when you are happy, your wife will be happy. Since her happiness is based on your happiness.
She will thank you later that you stay, you stay to solve problems rather that giving up!
Be confident, be polite, be respectful. Love can be cooked slowly!!!
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Greenpearl, with all due respect, I don't think going to a marriage counselor is the same as running to mommy to solve problems.
I think it shows a lot of maturity to take that serious step to improving problems.
You are very fortunate to have a beautiful partnership with your husband full of mutual respect that you both have figured out on your own.
Some of us need third party help in the area of finding our way to that---the issues jonny describes, the stuff my H and I deal with, arent "small problems" but patterns, and might be better solved with the help of a counselor.
It's not a sign of failure or weakness to get help, but of courage.
I hope my H and I can achieve the kind of marriage that you and Boker have someday! Posted via Mobile Device
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny
There will be a HUGE resistance - I know it. But it has to be done, or this relationship will not last. I can't live "below" my wife for the rest of my life. I deserve respect - so does she.
I think you are on the RIGHT path here. Realizing that you should no longer be tolerating your wife's belittling. I am always suggesting books for people, sorry just in my nature, but darn these are good ones - to help someone as yourself that maybe has allowed /enabled her to continue treating you in that fashion for years on end. And need a little encouragment to understand why you MUST stay on this path to enlightenment.
So high time to turn the tide. She has had a lack of healthy boundaries with you. With your changing, she will be forced to change her reactions to you. All good, all healthy.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Jonny I find your story rather interesting...
The missus herself has put me through similar trails last year - using friends/church against me, fights/whines/crying/etc, therapists on her side etc etc (I'm surprised you mentioned it actually, I thought I was the only one who had this problem with counselling).
By putting the foot down on boxing day last year - she really woke up, as cruel as my deed was. Since then she's stopped with her social manipulations, but that was just the first step however (and not recommended! as I risked losing her). Dropped the bomb, won the war sure... but now the reparations and negotiations, lest war happens again. Turned out the reasons for her behavior were more complex then I had thought.
Now I don't know about your missus, but it would do well to learn what's making her act in such a disrespectful controlling manner. And make steps to fix them, does she feel insecure in your marriage? Does she feel loved? Does she feel respected? Appreciated? etc etc.
Manning up is well and good, but there has to be a reason why she's so pissed, that's all I'm saying.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny
Counsilling - We have gone - To a psychologist that's quite good one on one - but like most therapy - favors the female once 2 are involved. The sessions mimic real life - her doing all the talking - everything being my problem. The reason she's like that is that I'm not a man of action etc etc etc.
I found therapy to do more harm than good.
You may need to find a better counselor if all that occurs there is more nagging with a witness and a per hour fee.
A good counselor will set guidelines for interaction at the sessions and attempt to help you fix your communications with input from both of you.
Professional, constructive counseling by a trained counselor will not be harmful.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Quote:
Originally Posted by michzz
You may need to find a better counselor if all that occurs there is more nagging with a witness and a per hour fee.
The problem with counseling is that you need to find one that is right for YOU. I have had a number of therapists for my addiction issues. One was FANTASTIC. He gave me just the information I needed, the support... A bunch of the other ones were horrible FOR ME.
Also you do have to watch out for the people who aren't really there for anything other than their money. Buyer beware.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
I agree.
It's also true that some of the approaches used in individual counseling simply aren't as helpful when working with couples.
Some counselors specialize in working with couples, and with particular approaches.
Example---Ours is an imago therapist, which is specifically geared to couples, not individuals. Posted via Mobile Device
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Sounds like your wife is insecure and has a need to control. The control makes her feel less insecure and that she controls her destiny, when in fact her behavior is actually pushing you away, not drawing you to her. I know how this feels. It's a horrible feeling and it takes really getting to know yourself, why you are the way you are, what needs to change to make yourself happy and why you feel the need to tear down others to make yourself feel better. She really needs counselling whether she agrees or not.
As far as the note, I agree with the others who've posted here, it was unacceptable behavior and it was like she was throwing it in your face and "daring" you to do something about it.
I would let her know that tearing up your note was unacceptable and that it she wishes to behave as a child, she will be treated like one.
Its about boundaries (and yes I know, I suck at them), but I'm trying. She needs to understand that there is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. She is so used to getting away with the unacceptable behavior with you that its become routine and probably something she doesn't even really think about, just acts upon when SHE believes the situation warrants it.
I'm not a true believer and supporter of the "man-up" clause that keeps getting spread throughout TAM. I am of the belief that it has nothing to do with manning up or womaning up (I know, not a word), it has to do with self-respect, confidence and setting boundaries regardless of whether you are a man or a woman. I think the "man-up" clause (and I'm probably going to be ripped here, but so what), is a step back to the neanderthal days when caveman dragged their women around by their hair. Mutual respect and clear setting of boundaries and not moving them to accomodate the situation is where real progress is made. If not for your wife, then for yourself. She will either woman-up and learn to respect you as her husband, not just necessarily a man, and meet you halfway or she won't - her choice.
Beating on your chest, showing your chest hair and wielding the "man-up" clause club is not necessary and can backfire depending on how extreme you take it.
Just MHO, but I agree with a previous poster - marriage counselling is definitely warranted in your situation too.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Thanks again all for the responses - Sorry I never got back to you all. It's been a big change for me, and one I'm still struggling with. I'll post another topic as I think what I want to ask might be a common thought. I'll search first.
I never did mention the note.
The treating me like a child has not been a big thing as of late. Saying that - she's pretty withdrawn all together now - It's like since I stood up for myself a couple times - she doesn't know what to do.
There was an argument. ( In which I was calm) about a male friend of hers - recent friend really - Had the chance of going to an emotional affair - blah blah blah.
Anyway - I was calm the entire time - she was mad. I told her I have no worries about the guy, the person I'm worries about is you. Your current mental state and the research that shows that you could be headed the wrong direction.
She got pissed. Walked away.
I went upstairs - told her. ;I'm not accusing you of anything. She said I am. I said no - not at all - I'm just communicating a worry of mine with this friendship of hers.
ANyway - more to come. Thanks again.
CONRAD
I'm trying to stay the course - it's tough.
I email her or text her - and I want her to respond - I'm trying to change that to " she responds or she doesn't - it's her choice and it doesn't affect me. "
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Stop following her if she walks away. Stop re-engaging her if she disengages. She expects you to pursue her, so don't.
If anything, YOU should start walking away the moment she raises her voice in a conversation. "We'll discuss it when you can do so calmly."
My guess is that it is difficult for you to disengage yourself from her. You want to talk. You want answers. You want resolution and calm. So you pursue it, no matter what crap she pulls.
Needs to stop.
Your comment about "she doesn't know what to do" is right in line with how this works. She will test you, without a doubt.
I've outlined previously, in my case we shifted from my spouse feeling like she had complete control and absolute predictability in terms of how I would respond to her, to being utterly confused and as a result, fearful, in less than 24 hours.
I'm not encouraging you to induce fear in your partner. It's counter-productive to re-establishing a healthy dynamic.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo
Stop following her if she walks away. Stop re-engaging her if she disengages. She expects you to pursue her, so don't.
If anything, YOU should start walking away the moment she raises her voice in a conversation. "We'll discuss it when you can do so calmly."
My guess is that it is difficult for you to disengage yourself from her. You want to talk. You want answers. You want resolution and calm. So you pursue it, no matter what crap she pulls.
Needs to stop.
Your comment about "she doesn't know what to do" is right in line with how this works. She will test you, without a doubt.
I've outlined previously, in my case we shifted from my spouse feeling like she had complete control and absolute predictability in terms of how I would respond to her, to being utterly confused and as a result, fearful, in less than 24 hours.
I'm not encouraging you to induce fear in your partner. It's counter-productive to re-establishing a healthy dynamic.
Deejo - Your posts all across this board have been helpful - You're well spoken and organized with what you say. You, The wolf man, Conrad and of course others have been helping.
Though all talk no action till I implement these 'teachings'
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te
Jonny,
Your woman, she is used to the established cause and effect, that she instigates a reaction from you with this or that action.
First things first, take this power away from her.
And do this with actions mostly, minimal words.
Deejo is correct, do not "follow" your woman!
You seem to be reading already on this site, so these tings you maybe already know.
Conflict: embrace it, use humor when appropriate, use calm, direct communication when appropriate. Rule of thumb, put YOURself and YOUR interests and YOUR desires front and center.
This may be hard at first, but get skilled and ignoring any hoops your woman puts for you to jump through.
Then get skilled at putting your own hoops for her to jump through.
This, will change things dramatically.
FItness tests: "Sh!t test". Google them, read several hours of many websites, dating websites, marriage websites, get beyond just "planned responses" and really understand the root of them.
Hypergamy: Similar to fitness test, understand this concept to see the power of attraction of the counterintuitive notion of putting YOURself first, and how actions and behaviors in this way can transform insecurity, resentment, and angst, into contentment, respect, and blazing sexual attraction and emotional connection.
As well, feel free to PM me and perhaps we can discuss personally even more controversial yet often extremely effective tactics.
Re: Wife found reminder note of points to talk about.ripped it up. Boundaries. fit te 
( puts flame suit on. )
