MEM11363

Jonny,
You can be as needy as you want "here". This is a "safe" place. You just can't be needy with her.

That said - do you have children? If not - do NOT have children until you get to a place where she RESPECTS you. Sorry man - but right now I am not sure she does. And THAT is death to a marriage and to sex.

Was your sex life good at the start? When did it fade/crash? Do you know why?

Does she "initiate" saying ILY, hugging you, doing nice things for you?

jonny

Thanks. This is a cross post - I'm sorry, but some may not be looking at the other thread now.

I've decided tonight I need to say something about it if she's on the phone with him again. .

Something about her talking to this guy after, on Sunday, I told her I didn't think they had to communicate so much. She sees him at work everyday, texts him, and now talks on the phone to him? I told her I'm not worried about him - I'm worried about her.

Again - maybe I'm over-reacting.

But tonight, if she's talking on the phone to him when I get home again - 3rd day in a row after our 'talk' - I don't know what to do. I'm probably going to copy and paste this to my other topic I have going as well.

She is showing she doesn't care about my feelings surrounding the issue. She is disrespecting me. It's like I want to tell her to cool it. cool it with this guy, and if she can't, that should be a red flag and she needs to think about that. If she can't respect me at the same time as having this 'friendship' - then we have a problem.

It's like I want to say that - but am I in the right or am I justified in doing so?

I know at the top I said I need to say something if she's on the phone with him again. Maybe I should say something regardless.

This morning when I was with the dog. she said " Oh - you like the dog because she's the only one that listens to you in the house." I forget what I responded - something like " you're right."

Oy.

Thanks for the post above. Being the solid Rock. Her the waves tumbling, faltering around it.

jonny

Or. I control myself, I say nothing, I document when I know they talk / interact - I don't let her on to it bugging me in the least - since She's obviously doing it on purpose after our talk on Sunday.

It's a dilemma. She goes against me knowingly. She mocks that with a " The dogs the only one that listens to you" - comment.

Do I push back, give her a reaction, tell her she's being disrespectful and hurtful.

Or do I act like it doesn't bug me. Which I'm not doing a great job of - I'm in a grumpy mood and not hiding it.

Conrad

jonny,

I cannot say this any better.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

Conrad

jonny,

Seriously now - what were you like when she fell in love with you?

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

Deejo

Wow ...

I'm sure proper counsel would be to appropriately state that she is being disrespectful ... but she already Goddamn well knows shes being disrespectful.

Serious question, what exactly are you afraid of in throwing down with her?

Losing her?
Her rejecting you?

Both of those things are already taking place.

Grumpy? WTF? You should be pissed off.

You need a complete reset.

Disappear for a few days. Don't tell her. Don't call her. Don't take her calls. Don't talk to her. Stay at a hotel, stay with a friend, whatever. Taking this steps puts the ball in motion that you neither depend upon, nor need her to make a decision about your life.

Obviously, you need to do the gut-check and decide what you are willing to do, and how far you are willing to go.

We can suggest what you can do til we are blue in the face, but you are the one that needs to be able to execute it.

So, can you stand up to her?

Or knowing yourself, does it come unraveled the moment it starts to get uncomfortable. Because honestly, there is no way around uncomfortable.

At it's worst, my relationship was never as openly disrespectful as yours is.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

greenpearl

Deejo,

I am not against this idea!

But she might run to another man and seek emotional help. Will Jonny be able to handle it?

Or is it no use to try to work out with this woman since she is so disrespectful?

MarriedWifeInLove

While I agree that respect goes hand-in-hand and should be practiced and given/accepted by both spouses, you guys (and the I mean the men here), do realize that this macho, stick my chest out routine doesn't work on all women, right?

It's not a one size fits all mentality.

While some women will fall into line, be caught off guard, adjust their behavior, etc., others won't.

Sometimes the way it's posted on TAM by the men who strongly belief in the concept make it sound and feel disrespectful to women. I keep thinking of cavemen everytime I read any posts by MEM and BBW, it literally makes me cringe.

And I totally agree with greenpearl - she might not cave as expected, she might just run to another man who will provide her the emotional validation she seeks/needs.

While I in no way condone her behavior and believe that its disrespectful and a whole bunch of other names I can't say here, Him being aggressive, dismissive and cold/unfeeling, walking away, etc., doesn't always solve the problem either - it just may push her into the arms of someone else, but hey, maybe that's okay too.

Just my two cents worth.

__________________
"Don't Find Fault - Find A Remedy" Henry Ford

seeking sanity

jonny, couple things:

- Being kind to your wife is not the same as being a push over/nice guy/wimp. Asking you to install a mouse isn't manipulation. Install the damn mouse. If she says hurtful, rude, disrespectful things to you, you confront her on it, in a dispassionate way. It sounds like you're a bit screwed up about the difference because of the other things going on.

- Absolutely you confront her about the other man. You say, "honey, I need to discuss something. You are talking with this other guy and it makes me uncomfortable. It feels like it could lead to cheating..." Don't expect the outcome you want, don't get emotional, but state your feelings.

- Consider reading the Calle Zorro Sexual Wife stuff, I think it's more appropriate here then the Nice guys stuff. You're wife is not having sex with you because you aren't connecting with her. Being a jerk isn't what's going to get her wet. Confidence, assertiveness, caring, and masculine strength will.

Deejo

And this is exactly the point 'all women' fail to understand in these discussions.

It isn't about you. It isn't about Jonny's wife. It's about him.

MWIL, you are a living example of this dynamic and you don't see that? I find that nothing short of amazing.

Jonny's marriage will FAIL, if the status quo remains in place. He will feel rejected and marginalized ... his wife will leave him or have an affair and then leave him.

I did this. I took these steps. For me. Did I want to save my marriage? Of course I did. But what happened along the journey is coming to the realization that the marriage I had, wasn't worth saving. And that, sad is it may be, is empowering.

He needs to value himself more than he values his wife. That is what creates balance. I think women just don't like what creating balance looks and sounds like. But if it's in place? No complaints.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

seeking sanity

This is an excellent point, though I don't neccessarly think women dislike it. A man's job is to lead. Dr Glover (Nice guy author) uses the analogy of a cake: A man's job is to create a good cake of a life - friends, direction, passion, exercise. The woman is the icing on the cake - the sweet stuff.

Most women don't WANT to be the cake. They don't want the responsibility to fill the void in a man's life. They WANT to be the icing.

Make sense?

So jonny, you need to look at your life objectively? You're woman aside, is your life filled with things that fulfill you?

jonny

Seriously Now? I forget. I do and I don't

I was positive, upbeat, always looking on the brightside. I believed that you control your moods, and you control whether you're positive or negative. Critical or non-judgemental. Content or the opposite.

I will say, looking back - all relationships followed the same pattern in terms of me being a door mat. Hell - All relationships follow that pattern for me - I mold around whomever I'm around.

I'm in sales, I do well at sales - I can read people and their needs.

But my confidence in that is even diminishing.

I'm negative now, I look on the dark side, I envy, I want, I have jealousy for my peers and what they have. Instead of me believing " I can have that too. " - I have feelings of contempt and annoyance with those that have more than I do.

I try to stay positive, but I've become a victim - I've gone form saying "I control how I feel," to blaming someone else, my wife, for my slow descent into negativity.

I've always held in my feelings, I've always built up resent. I've avoided confrontation - I've done whatever possible to diffuse any situation that's not good - as fast as humanly possible. Either by apologizing or saying what the other person wants to hear - or Stonewalling. Becoming a statue, disconnecting from the situation, giving short 1 word responses that are sure to end a conversation . . . as it's no longer a conversation.

I've gone from a success personally. A person everyone looks up to in terms of attitude and advice. To someone that doesn't have the respect of the person I feel should respect me most.

My wife.

And in saying that - Myself.

jonny

I'm going to think about what you're saying. Like I said before - your posts are great, and cause me to 'think'

I'll respond better after lunch.

As for disapeering. I have an amazing 3.5 year old son that's my world and can't leave. But maybe I can leave in a different way - once he's asleep just leave. Go do something, go out.

Come home, go to bed downstairs. ( Though this isn't uncommon for her - I do that on the weekends so I can play vid games after she goes to bed. )

She would flip if I left without telling her where I'm going. When I get back - she would ask and get mad if I would say just out.

Maybe it needs to be done. Maybe I need to create a situation where she gets mad at me, and respond with something such as. You don't respect me, yet you expect respect back? Saying that - that seems to stoop to her childish level. tit for tat. And might just escalate her pissing match with me.

Deejo

If I had to encapsulate my overall advice to you, it would be this: Stop talking about what and how you feel. Start doing, or not doing ... take actions to change what you feel.

I think SeekingSanity's advice was excellent. Don't stop doing what you feel compelled to do as the right or appropriate thing. But you do not need to do so while also acting as a verbal or emotional punching bag.

I retract my disappear, without notice statement. I wasn't aware you had a child. Find your own space, one that removes some of the anxiety of dealing with all of this.

__________________
"I figured out they were serious eventually but was thinking it was ridiculous. I wanted to kick them in the balls." - Trenton

jonny

I know you can't tell me what to do - I know you can give me your recommendations and your thoughts - and I appreciate them.

ALL OF YOU - I appreciate all the input.

So - what I'm asking may not have an answer. with the stop talking about my feelings. taking actions or not taking actions. Does this apply to this man situation as well?

I've got no fear of her having a physical affair with this guy at this point. Again - Him and I have developed a good relationship - I'm in sales and can get anyone to open up in my opinion. He's shorter than me, and he's obviously a beta / people pleaser as well - Actually - he's scarily like me in terms of personality. Which I'll try and see as positive and take as a compliment. haha.

Anyway - I'm thinking sit on it for now. Not quit digging, not putting my guard down - but not saying anything, and doing my best not to let it affect me in front of her - or if it does - not letting on.

I'll go to the gym in the next couple days and buy a membership.

I've been reading a book in front of her called " Secrets of happily married husbands. " Really focus's on men being men and that's what they are - and how therapy can destroy relationships, etc. But It's like I'm doing it for her to see I'm working on my relationship with her - even if she doesn't. Maybe it's time for me to put that book away - not let her see me reading anything on relationship fixing. And read something else.

Maybe a book on how to kill a man with your bare hands?
lol

" Kill the 'other man' in your wifes life "

Wife - what are you reading?
Me - Oh - just a fictional novel - it's quite good.

Further to this - should I replace her sleeping pills with high doseage caffeine pills so maybe she'll think she's losing sleep over what she's doing?

Kidding.

I doubt the pills look the same.