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post #61 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 09:39 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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I just want to love my wife and have her love me back.
You do this thing and use it as a gauge. If it becomes apparent the wife you love is perfectly comfortable without any demonstration or reciprocation of love that is meaningful to you, then it is time to consider if this is the person you want as a wife.

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post #62 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 09:55 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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Thanks MEM for your insight, very helpful for me being the hotter one. It just sucks. I am a loving, affectionate, playful person and I have to shut it down. My only fear, which probably a lot us hot spouses have, is that she will just love it and not respond at all. It just sucks, I want to be myself but instead I have to shove it all down and become more aloof. Why does as this have to be so complicated. I just want to love my wife and have her love me back.
I could have wrote this! I am with you 100%, extremely frustrating. Love is the root of the relationship and having to shut down the expressions of love just to keep it alive for the cold one.

Could this be the opposites attract (hot/cold) and we are just on the extremes of the temps?
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post #63 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 09:57 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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You do this thing and use it as a gauge. If it becomes apparent the wife you love is perfectly comfortable without any demonstration or reciprocation of love that is meaningful to you, then it is time to consider if this is the person you want as a wife.
For me this is throwing away 17 years. I remember back to the days when she was the one asking me to say ILY and kiss her straight on the lips. The tables have completely flipped. How did that happen?
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post #64 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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I could have wrote this! I am with you 100%, extremely frustrating. Love is the root of the relationship and having to shut down the expressions of love just to keep it alive for the cold one.

Could this be the opposites attract (hot/cold) and we are just on the extremes of the temps?
Depends. Is that where your relationship started?

Odds are there was a catalyst event. Either she came up to your temp to seal the deal, or your need to express love exceeded hers as the relationship progressed. Something in your relationship dynamic shifted, thus shifting her level of engagement, interest in, or attraction to you.

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post #65 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:06 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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For me this is throwing away 17 years. I remember back to the days when she was the one asking me to say ILY and kiss her straight on the lips. The tables have completely flipped. How did that happen?
You over-delivered and/or under-performed. When is the last time your spouse articulated what she 'needs' from you?

This generally comes about because somehow you feel your spouse slipping away and thus pursue her more ... only to have her pull away even further.

Or ...

You haven't been paying attention to what she has been telling you she needs from her partner. In other words, you haven't been a great husband.

I'm not accusing of one or the other, but those scenarios are generally where the cycle begins.

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post #66 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:09 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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For me this is throwing away 17 years. I remember back to the days when she was the one asking me to say ILY and kiss her straight on the lips. The tables have completely flipped. How did that happen?
You want things to change? She needs to believe that you are willing to let it go. If she thinks you aren't going anywhere ... why would or should she need to think about her behavior?

This is why the change engine needs to be you. If you expect it to be her ... nothing at all will happen.

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post #67 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:20 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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I freely admit to being too sensitive, impatient, etc. for most of my 20 year marriage, so I accept blame where blame is due. I am trying to be an emotional rock but the rejection is still painful. If I withdraw a lot, my wife will see it as me being manipulative and trying to punish her. My wife blames my mother for not giving me enough affection when I was a child. Great, just great.



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I worry I will reach a place that in order to cope, I just won't even care about her anymore.
I think itís at this point when we begin to turn our love for our wife off. By giving our love, help, support etc. not only arenít we getting anything positive back we get a whole bundle of pain as well. Itís a double whammy. It is the beginning of the end.
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post #68 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:35 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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You over-delivered and/or under-performed. When is the last time your spouse articulated what she 'needs' from you?

This generally comes about because somehow you feel your spouse slipping away and thus pursue her more ... only to have her pull away even further.

Or ...

You haven't been paying attention to what she has been telling you she needs from her partner. In other words, you haven't been a great husband.

I'm not accusing of one or the other, but those scenarios are generally where the cycle begins.

I think you are on it here. Some of what you said seems to be what has been said and where she is at now. She does not communicate well and I likely do not listen well or pick-up on the signs. She told our MC she was giving me signs, and the MC told her that I am not a mind reader.

The big question is what needs does she have and how can I get her to communicate them to me, so I can understand. She is likely telling everyone but me.
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post #69 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:39 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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You want things to change? She needs to believe that you are willing to let it go. If she thinks you aren't going anywhere ... why would or should she need to think about her behavior?

This is why the change engine needs to be you. If you expect it to be her ... nothing at all will happen.
I have started the 180 this week as stated in other threads. Funny how she wanted to do lunch yesterday and spoon this morning, after I started. Two things she would not have done in months.

Question is what is the balancing act of when to respond and when not to respond to her acts of initiation to make this a good change?
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post #70 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:44 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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I have started the 180 this week as stated in other threads. Funny how she wanted to do lunch yesterday and spoon this morning, after I started. Two things she would not have done in months.

Question is what is the balancing act of when to respond and when not to respond to her acts of initiation to make this a good change?
You keep doing the 180 until you are certain your are not your wife's Plan B and that you are her Plan A.
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post #71 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:47 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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Depends. Is that where your relationship started?

Odds are there was a catalyst event. Either she came up to your temp to seal the deal, or your need to express love exceeded hers as the relationship progressed. Something in your relationship dynamic shifted, thus shifting her level of engagement, interest in, or attraction to you.
Your words here hit the mark. Before she called for divorce and I started to pick-up on the signs she had changed her role, I directely used the words that "she was not engaged in our marriage" and asked her why. I never got an answer that registered. Now she has very little attraction to me. She would prefer not to have sex, but has. No interest in anything but letting me get some. Does not feel the way it should.

In another thread I talk about this guy she works with that came into the picture last year, who I know she does lunch and coffee with regularly. I am not blaming him as the reason things changed, but she is definitely interested in him by what I have learned. Much taller, over 10 years younger, ex pro-baseball player. She still emails him to do lunch even while we are going to a MC. This will be addressed next week.
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post #72 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:49 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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You keep doing the 180 until you are certain your are not your wife's Plan B and that you are her Plan A.
How do I know if I am A or B?

Do I sound like an idiot or what??
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post #73 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:51 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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You should NEVER make comments such as "it has been too long" or treat it as a major event. Keep your cool!
Got it. I think I am understanding this better. I read the list several times a day to remind myself.
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post #74 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 10:53 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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We need to come up with a mantra for "nice" guys that we repeat everyday:

I will not be needy
I will not be clingy
I will be OK with or without this person
My happiness does not depend on this person
I can only be hurt by this person if I choose to
etc.
...
This has been me and I am learning to turn down the heat. The thought of not being with her after all these years is a hard pill to swallow when thinking of being OK without, because that would be not only a painful process, but years of pain after. Not getting any younger.
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post #75 of 194 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 11:15 AM
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Re: The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

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How do I know if I am A or B?

Do I sound like an idiot or what??
You donít sound like an idiot, I think you are doing well. Iíve read a little of your story re the coach at lunchtimes? And your wife talking about you and your marriage in negative terms to her sister? That could make the coach your wifeís Plan A and you her Plan B.

If that is the case then your wife will try and keep you on the hook as her Plan B BACKUP.

And it could be that she puts out ďstuffĒ to you like spooning JUST TO KEEP YOU ONSIDE AS HER PLAN B!!! In case her Plan A coach doesnít work out.

So if you are in 180 you donít go there with reciprocation UNTIL YOU ARE CERTAIN YOU ARE HER PLAN A.

And of course you tell her thatís exactly what you are doing. In essence, getting on with your life until sheís made her mind up if you are her Plan A or not.
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