credamdóchasgra

I just did something that pushed me right back into approval-seeking mode.
I posted on "general" if anyone doesn't mind giving me a little support as to how to pick myself back up.
Jonny, the occasional setback is inevitable.
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MisterNiceGuy

Is this something you do only in this type of situation, or would you share more when things are a little cozier between husband and wife. It's a constant struggle with me not to share every bit of information that I have with my wife. I see now how this is approval seeking. Like how much weight I've lost and how many miles I'm walking, etc... she sees the changes in me. I just really need to keep my yap shut as much as possible...

MEM11363

MNG,
It is ok to share more when things are cozier. There is a lot of boring minutia in life - I am not real big on sharing that unless she asks. That is just me.

BTW - in reverse I will "listen" to minutia and remain engaged. My W is in this "super healthy" lifestyle thing. She likes to tell me every single thing she eats each day - LOL. I am proud of her - and we are ALL eating better now because of her. So happy to listen.

coops

I've always felt you need to find ways to best support yourself. You're not going to get that confidence boost from your wife right now, so find ways to do it on your won.

I've always been a believer in the idea of "look good, feel good". I'd always feel better, more confident, etc when I wore a suit or a really nice outfit. On top of that, a fresh haircut, clean shaven. All superficial of course but none the less this helped me to feel a bit more confident during the day.

So.. when I started this journey, I got rid of old clothing that didn't fit well or looked a little frumpy. I stopped wearing "comfy clothes" when I was out or around the house. I hit the mall and get a few new outfits that I looked good in and felt confident wearing. This might not be your thing, but now you should be specifically looking for things that make you feel stronger and more confident about yourself. Who cares how silly it is if it works for you?

I built an overall workout plan, and focused heavily on my diet. When I was feeling particularly weak or knew I'd do something stupid like have a big talk with my wife about issues, I'd use that as a good time to go work out and get it out of my system.

Week 1 - Body Language:
I decided instead of overwhelming myself with all these changes and new thoughts etc, that I would focus on 1 thing as my main focus and if I screwed up other behaviors I wouldn't get down on myself about it.

So I picked an area that would have positive effects on my emotions and thinking, as well as create positive attraction from my wife. Body language was the natural first choice for me. Often times, despite what we say, our body gives us away. Standing up with big words setting a boundary, but having weak body language will instantly betray your internal thoughts.

How you stand, walk, sit, hold your arms etc can all send positive or negative attraction signals. So for the first week, all I did was focus on reminding myself to change my body language. If I'd catch myself slouching, I'd sit right up. If I found myself leaning on things, I'd force myself to stand stronger etc etc.

Aside from those reasons there are others. There is a proven brain -> body connection. Thinking a certain way can have a direct effect on the body. What has become very interesting news to me, are some studies showing that there is in fact a body -> Brain connection as well.

In one study participants were asked to simply hold poses for periods of time and then the doctors would test their testosterone and cortisol levels. (Cortisol from wiki - Its primary functions are to increase blood sugar through gluconeogenesis; suppress the immune system; and aid in fat, protein and carbohydrate metabolism. It also decreases bone formation.).

It was shown that those who held poses of power and relaxation, had increases in their testosterone levels and decreases in cortisol levels. A position like sitting back in your chair, hands behind your head with your legs stretched out had positive effects.

It was also shown the opposite to be true. Those that held body positions of weakness, like slouching curled up with head down, showed decreased levels of testosterone and increased levels of cortisol.

So I resolved myself change my body language week 1.

Week 2 - Focus on language:
I continued what I was doing in week 1, including all the working out, eating well, dressing well etc. After a week of non stop focus on my body language, it was starting to come into place and while it wasn't yet habit, it was at least easy enough to now add a new focus. I decided week 2 would be all about watching my language.

I'm not talking about swearing, I'm talking about habitual use of words like "I'm sorry" for nearly everything and "I'm just joking" after cracking what was obviously a joke. If the joke is obvious why do I have to say something like "I'm just joking". Its weak language.

I've had a terrible habit of using the word sorry all my life. As long as I can remember, people used to tell me "you say sorry too much". I'd say it for everything.

So every time I slipped a sorry into a conversation, I'd mentally give myself a kick in the ass. Sometimes its hard cause you get down on yourself when you slip up but you just gotta push through. Anyhow, I pushed it to the point that even if I was wrong and screwed something up, instead of saying sorry, I'd say "I've made a mistake". Only if it was absolutely necessary and something that was completely wrong of me to do, would I use the words sorry. It really started to make me aware of the "weakness" that was coming out of my mouth with my choice of words.

Week 3 Tone of voice:
Same as before, continue focusing on body language yada yada yada, only this time, I decided I would start using more powerful tones of voice.

I've written tons here already but basically a lower tone is seen as stronger, more authoritative, attractive for a male. I wasn't aiming for fake, just slightly deeper than what had become my normal voice and being careful not to raise my tone around others.

It might be an odd evolutionary thing but typically less dominant person in a conversation will raise their tone. I think it appears less threatening or something of that nature.

I had a terrible habit of talking to my wife in a different tone. Almost childish. Its hard to explain but you can be talking normal to a friend and then you get on the phone with the wife and the tone just changes. When you're at the office, listen to other men when their wives call, almost guarantee you'll hear what I'm talking about if you don't already know.

If you haven't already grasped, my first focus was on subtle power cues. I decided all the changes I would make would increase my personal power in general, and in turn would naturally leak into the relationship without directly doing anything to take power from my wife. Once I was feeling confident with these, I started to branch out and reestablish my boundaries within the relationship.

You'll have to decide what works for you but take an area of weakness, whatever it is you decide and start to break it down week by week. Each time you can eliminate an area that weakens you, it helps that much more to build yourself up. If you try to do too much at once you'll just keep falling flat and beating yourself up for failing.

MEM11363

Coops,
This is yet another first class post. I agree with all of it.

Just to pile on - tone of voice is incredibly powerful when used properly. If you use tone plus "aligned" body language - hell you barely have to say more than a couple sentences and you get a very positive result.

coops

I thought about this after I had gone to bed but its an addition to the language thing. Any time a question wasn't needed, I used a statement instead. Instead of polling others for their opinion, I simply gave mine.

Ask a question to another and you give the power away instantly. Decide what you want and offer it up, allows you to still sort out the issue but maintain your power base.

Example:
Where do you want to eat? (power given to the person you're asking)

I would like to eat at xyz restaurant. (Decision made, power dynamic rests with you. If the other person denies that choice, you can discuss and decide on an alternative, but you didn't instantly give the power away.)

Same goes for what movie to watch, what tv show to watch etc etc. Just catch yourself more often and you'll see it.

MisterNiceGuy

coops great post!

Just in my short journey going on week three...

It's funny you mentioned this staying positive, but just yesterday my wife turned to me (before her latest meltdown) and said something like "You look like you are having fun and you are upbeat and positive!" (which could've been the problem with her because I was so positive and she was going so negative, but that's another post)

What I've learned is that the number one thing is to get some regular vigorous exercise. I've dropped about 10lbs in a month and I have about 5 more to go to reach my target. (I wasn't exactly fat to start off) This has made all the difference. I'm sleeping better, I feel lighter and I'm thinking more clearly.

Not in any special order but all having a great impact is: eating right, drinking less, getting better sleep, surround yourself with positive people, dress better. It's the little things, like getting a hair cut regularly, shaving every day. Dress decently every day.

One of the first things I did was go out and buy a bunch of new clothes on my own. I hadn't done that for years. It's very empowering and it shows you are in control. My wife was super impressed.

The big thing is don't tell her you are doing this stuff. Tell her is an approval seeking mechanism. Do it for yourself. She will notice and complement you (if not, you have some issues to work out!)

Don't lose your temper, no matter what. I've come very close but I've had to walk away or stay silent several times. Just keep your mind focused on the important stuff.

I also agree with coops about decision making. I'm making way more decisions and not giving her the power. I used to always defer to her for EVERYTHING. Not anymore.

Be present, on purpose and take control. It will make you feel more positive and upbeat.

Anyway, that's some of what I've learned in the past few weeks. It's been very positive for me.

MEM11363

Coops,
This is a great topic. Perfectly fine to state "this is what I want". The "art" is in how to handle the response if your partner wants something else.

That said "questions" are often the most powerful response to an aggressive/unfair statement.

For instance your partner says "I cannot believe you did X".

Now lets say "X" was a choice that seemed reasonable at the time. Instead of "defending" yourself, far better to ask:

"Given what we knew THEN, what would you have done differently and why"? But this question can't be a sarcastic form of fuuk off. It has to be a sincere question. And you might actually learn something/benefit from the conversation if your partner actually has some good ideas.

If they don't - likely that will be obvious to both of you. Much easier to critique - than to "do".

coops

That is a really good point Mem. When I was writing it, I was in the frame of mind thinking of making decisions like where to eat, what show to watch, what table to sit at in the coffee shop, things like that.

In practical terms what you're saying is absolutely correct. That way of posing a question can be the most powerful response. The key that makes this type of question powerful is the unsaid statement at the end of it "I will judge your answer".

MEM11363

Coops,
I think we both see this stuff in a similar manner. My W told me she really started to fall for me on our first "official" date. We had been out in "group" settings a few times and I asked her out. She said yes. I had a very small place at the time - but it was clean and it had a giant window and a killer view.

I picked her up. She got in the car and after a moment of random chit-chat I said "Plan A was me making you dinner. Had to work late. Life is full of surprises so I always have a plan B. You tell me what kind of food and I will pick the restaurant. She loved that whole "life is full of surprises so I always have a plan B". The thing is the word "sorry" never entered my mind. I picked her up on time. I had a good backup. We had a great night.

She still loves it when I take her through a well thought out plan, regardless of whether it is plan A, or plan B.

MisterNiceGuy

I'm going through a lot of this right now. My wife keeps dredging up issues from the past. Just tonight she said that she can't believe how much I neglected our house over the past few years (I'm not talking about cleaning, but things like paint, the yard, piles of crap in the back yard). I sure did and I know it, but not anymore. That's just one example. But, these are things I know I will never do again. I've seen the light and I'm becoming a new person and my feeling is that she doesn't trust that this is permanent.

MEM11363

MNG,
Best move in the world in that case is to nod and say as little as possible. As soon as you are by yourself get out a pad and make a list. Start doing stuff - and hey have the kids help you as it is a good bonding thing and it helps them develop a work ethic. But do it without initiating discussion with her. This isn't about making her happy or worse "getting her off your case". This is about being the Man of the house and getting it done.

One exception to the "discussion" is "paint". I never do anything with colors without at least a brief conversation. Oh and since I totally suukk at color selection, she gets final say over anything to do with colors.

jonny

Good advice. Haven't been on a little while.

But yes - good advice - I'll tell her if she asks, but won't just offer up the information looking for a good job or respect / congrats from her. You're right in that's exactly what I'm doing - trying to impress her.

Conrad

jonny,

How are you doing?

We all want to impress her.

We just can't ask for it

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

jonny

Coops. Great post. Great. I'll remind myself daily to pay more attention. I have been, and it has bee giving me benefits. I need to work on the voice thing for sure - body l . . . hell - all of it. Thanks.