credamdóchasgra

You guys are so helpful and I really appreciate it.

We're so frustrated with each other.
Today we both let our frustration get the best of us:

I push, he shuts down; he shuts down, I push.
Switch the sequence, doesn't matter. It's a cycle.

I know the cycle must be broken; but forcing myself to stop pushing in the hopes that eventually he'll open up, is a difficult gamble.
It requires patience and trust that I sometimes do not have:
patience and trust that if I back off and put aside my own needs for awhile, he'll grow to appreciate and love me in kind.

Hicks, know what's hard? One of his needs is appreciation and admiration for being a great guy...i have a hard time meeting that need when I feel hurt by his behavior that shuts me out, tells me he doesn't care, judges my thoughts and feelings, and yells at me.
I have a hard time seeing the great guy and giving him that appreciation that I know he needs, because I don't feel it.
It's so hard to meet THAT need (for appreciation, respect, admiration) when I feel like he's dismissing mine; I'm not saying I refuse to do it...but it's hard, and it's why I exploded at him today.

Especially since there's a sad, dark part of me that thinks we made a mistake, and that part is eating at me.
Maybe I'm opening myself up for judgment by saying that, but it's true, and I'm willing to finance individual therapy if I have to, to deal with it.
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Mom6547

My guess is he would love it if you listened to him when he told you what his needs are rather than looking for some OTHER need. he TOLD you what he needs. But you don't want to do it.

Conrad

If I may, I think Credam is worried there "won't be enough for her" in that sort of arrangement.

Of course, that point of view is legitamite - but it won't be effective in healing.

That's the fear one must get past for growth.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

credamdóchasgra

yup.
I failed yet again at "not pushing him" because I wanted something from him, which he didn't want to give.
but...What to him is "pushing," to me is "conversation."
I can't help it if he feels "pushed." he doesn't have to see it that way.
one solution: if he wants to get impatient and annoyed within 5 minutes, and shut down a conversation--even if to me it would be nice to have it--let him.
Then I stuff down my feelings.
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Mom6547

There is really only one way to find out. Because what she continues to insist on doing definitely is not working or going to work.

Yup.

credamdóchasgra

I guess I keep testing.
I keep saying to myself: "cool off, don't push, don't this, don't that..."
and when things seem to be going well, I think: "ok good, so if I ask for something now, because things are going well, he'll be receptive, right?" wrong.
It's like my impatience makes me "push my luck"---a distasteful way to say it, but that is how it feels.

{And that says nothing of my gut feeling that the "things" I'm "asking for" aren't empirically nasty chores that nobody would enjoy.
They're things I would hope my life partner would--here it comes---WANT to do (talk to me, support me).}
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Conrad

Credam,

If I may share the following:

My wife has been blessed with tremendous looks. But, as most beautiful women know, this is a double-edged sword. It can leave you wondering what's real.

She was a young divorced mother of 2 and - of course - there was no shortage of suitors. Her kids were (and still are) the most important thing in her life.

So, when dating and evaluating "husband material", she would watch with amusement/horror/disgust as the suitors would attempt to connect with her son and daughter.

After 30 minutes or so of spirited play, the sideways glance would be sent her way...

You know what it meant.

"Is that enough for us to have sex now?"

Giving something only to get leaves one empty.

Of course, you really WANT a good relationship with this man. He is the one you chose. You are now afraid it won't happen. This - of course - has you doubling down on the things least likely to work.

What you described above "things going well, thought I'd try this..." sounded much like, "Can we have sex now".

Giving only to get.... being afraid you won't get enough when the dust settles... this sort of thing makes us crazy.

Remember this well. The type of affirmation you're seeking from him in some way resembles father/daughter. ANYTHING that looks like affirmation or has the slightest whiff of "father/daughter" needs to be minimized for you to be as attractive to him as you wish to be.

The parts work is key to this.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

credamdóchasgra

Uh-oh.
I did not realize the connection between that affirmation and being unattractive.
That is not a coincidence.

Thank you, your wife, and the kids for the example (ok, thank those poor sidelong suitors too). It helps me see how I'm "giving in order to get."

I do have the fear that I'll never "get" what I need. But apparently that fear will get in the way, so here's to the next step--overcoming that fear.

__________________
Life is 10 percent what you make it, and 90 percent how you take it.

Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.

Conrad

You simply MUST deal with that fear.

There are a number of ways it can subside, and it will likely be a combination of several.

That's where the parts work can be really helpful. In your case, I think it's essential - as you simply aren't going to rest until you really "know" what to do.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

credamdóchasgra

Well, for an update...

H came home from work and announced, angrily, that he thinks we need to cut down our MC frequency because it's "not doing any good" and is "too expensive."

Awesome.
My worst fears confirmed: this crappy status quo is acceptable to him, and he is unwilling to become curious in a way that is clearly necessary, about how he contributes, what HIS parts are, and what HE can do.

Until now, i was counting my blessings that i hadn't heard the "I don't need someone telling me" line from him, I was comforted that he *didn't* seem to "think he has all the answers."

Now I really feel ALL the weight on MY shoulders.

__________________
Life is 10 percent what you make it, and 90 percent how you take it.

Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.

less_disgruntled

Not possible. If those are his words it means he feels unsafe being intimate with you. This could be something you do, or it could be something unrelated to you at all (I'm willing to guess it's the latter). What he needs to understand is that barring living with actual violence the only person who can make an adult feel 'safe' is himself. It's his responsibility, not yours. After all, if you really aren't the person who will let him open up to you, why would he want to be with you?

In a way though that can't be true. Unless you married a liar or impostor, you knew this guy when you got married, and you knew what marriage meant, so presumably you can accept whatever it is from him--but he may not feel that way. We often don't.

You can't really be the one to bring him to that realization. After all, telling someone that it's their "responsibility" to "take care of themselves" is not going to make anyone feel safe. IOW, If he does that for your sake b/c you tell him he has to, he's not really doing it.

If, OTOH, he didn't say that and it's you trying to explain or guess what he needs, I can't really help you here.

naturalist

Hi credamdóchasgra,

I don't have the full picture on your situation, but I would be wary of ignoring your unmet needs, especially open communication. It breeds resentment in you, is usually then expressed as anger, and that makes the emotional distance between partners even worse.

With the help of TAM, I realized that my partner was practicing some text book passive-aggressive behavior, and it really, really, really helped clarify what I had been experiencing. It sounds like you're stuck in the same catch 22. This article in particle made tremendous sense to me: Get Your ANGRIES Out

It looks at both partners cooperation in a dysfunctional dynamic, and gives suggestions for moving forward, and asks the hard questions of what to do if your spouse is uncooperative in trying to change for the better.

I hope it helps!