I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Conrad said my H would "passively aggressively withhold the behaviors" I said I appreciated from him:
namely, having a conversation about something that's important to me--calmly, positively, "openly."

Yes, he did: about the article I wrote. (I posted in "general.")
He read it (I had asked him to), and then was very closed off to conversation about it, very negative, almost judgmental.
So he delivered on Conrad's prediction, and then some: aggressive, not just passive aggressive.

How do I pass these "fitness tests"?
I'm so sick of this pattern, SO SICK of it.

I'm trying to 180, trying to cool down my temp, trying to "(wo)man up."
i've never assumed the role of needy, desperate, pathetic partner before this.
I've never felt so shut out and pushed out, unappreciated, before my own husband.

I'm trying not to crumble. HELP!!!
Any suggestions from all the "nice guy/man up" husbands, suggestions that can apply to a wife who is trying SO hard?
(I read "why men marry b****es," but I already married him, it didn't really apply.)
This pit in my gut is becoming unbearable.
Is there a comparable "no more mr. Nice Guy" playbook for me?
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

You are caught up in the 'runner and pursuer' model.

You are the pursuer. You want something from him that you aren't getting ... so you simply keep trying to get it. You can't let it go. You can't leave him alone. And as a result, all you achieve is continuing to push him away.

What you need to be prepared to accept is that this guy is NEVER going to either be capable of, or sufficiently invested in meeting your needs.

Given what I know of your circumstances, I simply don't think he's going to change.

Point I got to in my relationship was recognizing "This is it. This is as good as gets. This is all she's ever going to be capable of."

And it was up to me to decide whether or not who she was, how she acted, and what she had to offer was enough for me to feel valued and fulfilled.

I don't think you have pulled away nearly enough, to be able to determine if his behavior is reactionary to you ... or if his behavior is simply who he is.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Thanks, deejo.
Hard as it is to think he just may not care more than he currently does, and never will.
But I guess the gamble is taking the risk to find out what he does *on his own*, without my pushing.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Gotta add/reiterate...
Playbook...solutions?
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

You have a need for approval. That is normal and real and you should embrace that and not try to beat yourself into not needing it. You have a need for conversation. Again, you should be self aware as to what your needs are from your H. You should embrace them and over time drive your husband into meeting them. But, are you aware of what his needs are? The reason he would not care more than he does is that he is not "getting" his needs met (by you). That is what makes someone care.... Recommended play book is the 5 love languages, His needs / Her needs, or The Proper care and feeding of Husbands. And, from this you should come up with a list of his main needs as you see them.
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Old 02-06-2011, 08:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You have a need for approval. That is normal and real and you should embrace that and not try to beat yourself into not needing it. You have a need for conversation. Again, you should be self aware as to what your needs are from your H. You should embrace them and over time drive your husband into meeting them. But, are you aware of what his needs are? The reason he would not care more than he does is that he is not "getting" his needs met (by you). That is what makes someone care.... Recommended play book is the 5 love languages, His needs / Her needs, or The Proper care and feeding of Husbands. And, from this you should come up with a list of his main needs as you see them.
I'd love if he'd tell me what his needs are, aside from:
"don't push me."
"love me."
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'd love if he'd tell me what his needs are, aside from:
"don't push me."
"love me."
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Also:
"be happy with me and need nothing emotionally from me."

this is seriously what he seems to need from me.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Creda,
I am sorry for asking what is likely a duplicate question - but here goes: How did he treat you/how did he behave in general BEFORE you got married?

Was he nicer/kinder more loving? Was he more patient? Was he less angry/tense combative with you?

WHEN did his behavior towards you start to change in a noticeable way?

Sometimes if you want to know the "truth" you have to ask the question in the right way. If it were me this is what I would ask him.
1. How do you think I have changed/am different compared to how I was before we married?
2. How do you think YOU have changed/am different compared to how YOU were before we married?
3. Given what you know now, if you could go back in time and once again make the "choice" of whether to propose, would you still do so?

If his answer to 3 is "yes" he would still propose I think you might want to ask him a question. But inject a little painkiller first.

I am truly relieved to hear you say you don't feel like you made a mistake. I love you and want this marriage to work. I admit though I was very anxious about how you would answer. In general you seem unhappy with me and honestly I am not sure why. I want you to think about this. I know you "love me" what I need to know is whether or not you are confident that we can actually "be good for each other - make each other happy".

And somehow blended into this conversation - something along the lines of: "Often I say things that I do NOT expect you to get angry about and you actually do get really angry and say things that make me feel very bad. Over time that is very difficult for the person being "yelled at".


Quote:
Originally Posted by credamdóchasgra View Post
Also:
"be happy with me and need nothing emotionally from me."

this is seriously what he seems to need from me.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by credamdóchasgra View Post
Also:
"be happy with me and need nothing emotionally from me."

this is seriously what he seems to need from me.
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Don't confuse his lack of desire to meet your needs with his needs.

Your needs are important, and your marriage cannot survive without him meeting them.. But, you are so focused on your needs i.e. you are trying to get him to meet them, or you are trying to get yourself to not have them.... It's real important that he is getting something out of the marriage. It's real important that you are working with a plan of knowing what is important to him and meeting it. I highly recommend you go to the library and take out the 3 books I ref'd, this will cost you nothing.
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo View Post
I don't think you have pulled away nearly enough, to be able to determine if his behavior is reactionary to you ... or if his behavior is simply who he is.

I think this is absolutely spot on. We have to take ourselves out of the dynamics of the relationship as much as we possibly can and that’s a lot of what the 180 is all about. After a while, through simple observation of their behaviour we can determine which part of their behaviour is dependent upon ourselves, the dynamics between us, and which parts they own “in total”. And all this with the thought that as an individual we can bring out both the best and the worst in our partner.

It’s been a real eye opener for me. I’ve totally withdrawn any contact with my stbx while at the same time I have access by way of snooping of some of the things she’s been saying to various people. I now know just how two faced, deceiving and lying she is! Not just with me but with other people as well. It is exceptionally hard for me to say that about the woman I was with for an exceptionally long time. It is very sad for me but at the same time I’m really glad I now know.

And also at the same time I’ve recognised it is a large part of the way my stbx “manages” her life, it is just who she is!

Bob
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
Don't confuse his lack of desire to meet your needs with his needs.

Your needs are important, and your marriage cannot survive without him meeting them.. But, you are so focused on your needs i.e. you are trying to get him to meet them, or you are trying to get yourself to not have them.... It's real important that he is getting something out of the marriage. It's real important that you are working with a plan of knowing what is important to him and meeting it. I highly recommend you go to the library and take out the 3 books I ref'd, this will cost you nothing.
Not to hijack this thread - but this comment really hit home with me. I am focused on getting my needs met and maybe I'm ignoring his. But it's hard to know what "his" are when he won't talk about them. Everytime I think I've hit the jackpot with what his needs are, they change - I get so many mixed signals it's not even funny.

I've already read his needs/her needs, and a lot of other books. I've purchased so many e-books, that they are in 2 3-ring binders. But I haven't seen "The Care and Feeding of Husbands," - I'll read that one next.

Maybe I need to stop worrying about my needs being met and do my best to focus on his so he feels loved and cared for, then maybe he can meet my needs. He used to, but has quit trying and the reasons change and vary so I don't even really know the real truth of why.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Gotta be quick:

1. Hicks: I've read 5 LL, asked H to read it with me, he hasn't, I don't want to "push" him.
I honestly sense that his needs are:
a "happy wife" (his words)
unconditional acceptance for who he is, as he is, whatever he says or does

MEM:
we've both always had these issues to a degree.
I've uttered the word "mistake" since we got married, (in MC), it didn't faze him, but he never has.
I haven't asked, but I think he'd have proposed "knowing" all this.
I'm the one who's not so sure I'd jump in.

I'm in a rush, will reread more closely later
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:18 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Like MWIL I too don't want to hijack but Creda's got some very good debate going in various threads, so many things resonate with me - latest of which is this, which I could have written (but didn't!)

[QUOTE=MEM11363;248623](SNIPS)
And somehow blended into this conversation - something along the lines of: "Often I say things that I do NOT expect you to get angry about and you actually do get really angry and say things that make me feel very bad. Over time that is very difficult for the person being "yelled at".[/QUOTE]
And this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarriedWifeInLove View Post
Not to hijack this thread - but this comment really hit home with me. I am focused on getting my needs met and maybe I'm ignoring his. But it's hard to know what "his" are when he won't talk about them. Everytime I think I've hit the jackpot with what his needs are, they change - I get so many mixed signals it's not even funny.

(SNIPS).
And this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by credamdóchasgra View Post
Gotta be quick:
1. Hicks: I've read 5 LL, asked H to read it with me, he hasn't, I don't want to "push" him.
(SNIPS)
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The last of which is doubly difficult in our situation because not living together fulltime puts pressure on the time we do have together to be split between: son - him(OH) & me just being - him & me attempting to talk about stuff - him & me being parents & householders

Sorry Creda, if I could think of a thread title for myself that wasn't as long as War & Peace I'd go for it!
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

And I forgot the most salient point of all which is a huge thumbs up for Creda for seeming so open to actually not just acknowledging she could possibly make change, (remains to be seen if her H joins in the process so wholeheartedly) but also actually putting thoughts into practice
Something I've thus far really struggled with mainly for reasons outlined in my post above!
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: I was warned about this "male version of a fitness test" has reared its head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by credamdóchasgra View Post
Gotta be quick:

1. Hicks: I've read 5 LL, asked H to read it with me, he hasn't, I don't want to "push" him.
I honestly sense that his needs are:
a "happy wife" (his words)
unconditional acceptance for who he is, as he is, whatever he says or does

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Regarding those books, I don't think it's easy for 2 people to fill out questionnaires like "here is the answer" and everyone lives happily ever after. I think you should look at it as a process of discovery rather than get him to read the book and tell you the answer. In another post you made in the Sex Forum it sure looks like he expressed a need for sexual fulfillment. Another common need for a male is respect. You are translating that to "unconditional acceptance for who he is, as he is, whatever he says or does". I can understand why you think that way. You are having trouble seeing the 1-2 things he needs in the area of respect and you are getting overwhelmed and building into the statement in quotes. But more practically I would suggest to you that men want their wife's admiration for their accomplishments.
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