As a human being, we all experience crashes in our lives, I remember it is about two or three times for each person on this planet. What you are experiencing now is what we have experienced before, the process hurt much more than the end, when the end comes, it is actually much more clearer, because now you know what your direction is.
I don't think there is ever going to be a recover. It is good that you told her mom that she needs support. Don't beat a dog when it is already in a bad situation. Let her go, and hope she has a good life, because if she doesn't have a good life, she will keep on coming back to haunt you, and it won't help you move on! And it won't be good for your kids!
Normally I don't disagree with men, but your method is very harsh towards a woman.
She was wrong and she is wrong.
But right now if MNG shuts her off totally, treats her like a piece of garbage, it is going to make her resent him even more. Don't forget, they have kids together, their relationship is over, but they still have kids, it is important for them to be civil, it is for their children's benefit.
MNG is a nice man, she wants to leave, let her leave. No more feeling left, then end it. But when we end a relationship, it is better to end it without too much hurt involved, if we be nice, let the other person regret and feel shameful for what she has done, but don't cut her road. The kids need their mother. Never affect children too much with adult war. It is already bad, don't make it worse!
The woman just left him. Said she never loved him. Staying civil "for the sake of the kids" right now is the same thing as saying "Please kick me in the balls again!". The man has a right to be angry. He has a right to be hurt. And he has a right to deny the woman who hurt him -- his wife, whom he trusted -- a comfortable existance.
If he's nice and civil, she'll never respect him. Avoiding resentment might be advisable if the other emotions involved weren't so powerful, but compared to heartbreak, anger, fury, and pain, a little resentment over her pretense of dignity isn't something he has to have a place for. If there is ever a time in a man's life when he's justified in getting angry, it's this kind of situation.
Good show, emailing her mom. She probably still feels like if she waits it out, then you'll ask her to come back before she'll tell her folks about it.
My guess? She's over at the OM's house, trying to repair things with his wife and assure her that nothing ever happened, and talking sh!t about you and your wild delusions. Either way, ain't your problem. But she'll probably come home just after midnight "to get a few things and maybe talk", after you've both calmed down and can be "reasonable".
MNG,
Turns out that CALM is WAY WAY WAY more effective than anger. Anger means "ILY and need you and can't believe you are doing that".
Instead calm, and firm. Whatever you do, make sure you have a legal basis. For example I don't think legally you CAN move her out. So don't try UNLESS a lawyer tells you that you are on rock solid ground. Just be matter of fact.
Actually if it was me, I would say "Anything I can do to help you get a job, review your resume, etc. let me know". This is you showing total indifference. It will frighten her more than you can imagine.
AND do NOT talk about how you are right and she is wrong. She knows that already. Talking is just you trying to "prove" your case. You have nothing to prove. You are the injured party - but don't even say THAT if you can avoid it. Just stay focused on her plans to move out, and your desire to help her. My guess is you have more than a 50-50 shot if you play the indifference / constructive assistance game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanIronwood
the guy is right. Make it clear that you take her at her word, it's over, and you are already prepared to move on. And to move HER on. Packed suitcases might be enough. Seeing the kids off to school for the last time might be enough. You never know which little thing is going to break her, but this is one phenomenal sh!t-test. The only way to pass it and possibly regain her respect (and her) is to be resolute. The alternative is that you won't pass it and she'll move on . . . in which case you would have done some of the heavy lifting in a seperation you'd have to do anyway.
You just have to show that you're more pissed off and more intractable than she is. None of this roommates crap. That undermines your value as a father and husband, and if she isn't willing to take responsibility for her poorly-conceived action, that's her problem. As it is, I'd demand a pretty big act of contrition even to discuss anything but her moving her @$$ out of there, pronto. I mean, tears-in-her-eyes-dropping-to-her-knees-I-was-wrong-please-forgive-me style contrition.
And that's just to talk. Anything less, give an inch now to being "reasonable" and "adult" about this, and you're handing her your balls all over again.
MNG,
Good job. Just to clarify - in this context saying "ILY" means:
- I accept how you have been behaving
- AND I am saying "ILY" half because I want to know do YOU love me?
As for the kids and this trip - I have no opinion. PLEASE talk to a divorce attorney. I have no idea whether you can legally block her from taking the kids while you two are still married. You do not want to draw an "ILLEGAL" line in the sand.
Taking the kids out of state (and thus out of school) makes them truants, which is certainly illegal.
Unless MNG's wife legally withdraws them and declares that they're being home-schooled, the requirements and regulations of which vary from state to state.
Although, in a situation such as this, suggesting legal advice is never a bad call.
Meanwhile, she certainly can't claim any longer that she has no friends close enough to stay with til she gets on her feet...she's got one who was willing to cover up her actions not only with MNG, but with the OM's wife. Surely, this friend wouldn't balk at providing further assistance in the wake of the fallout of a bad situation she was comlicit in. Posted via Mobile Device
MNG,
Turns out that CALM is WAY WAY WAY more effective than anger. Anger means "ILY and need you and can't believe you are doing that".
Instead calm, and firm. Whatever you do, make sure you have a legal basis. For example I don't think legally you CAN move her out. So don't try UNLESS a lawyer tells you that you are on rock solid ground. Just be matter of fact.
Actually if it was me, I would say "Anything I can do to help you get a job, review your resume, etc. let me know". This is you showing total indifference. It will frighten her more than you can imagine.
AND do NOT talk about how you are right and she is wrong. She knows that already. Talking is just you trying to "prove" your case. You have nothing to prove. You are the injured party - but don't even say THAT if you can avoid it. Just stay focused on her plans to move out, and your desire to help her. My guess is you have more than a 50-50 shot if you play the indifference / constructive assistance game.
Point of clarification: I wasn't counseling that he flip out on her. On the contrary, you shold be the picture of calm.
But one can be angry and still be calm. Calm is about action. Anger is about feeling. Your points about indifference are well taken, though. That's one reason why I suggested he be "unreasonable" -- because being reasonable leads to talking leads to concessions leads to her suckering him.
If I were you, pack her bags, have them waiting in the living room, and then you go sleep in the kids room. That way she'll not be able to sneak away with them . . . and when she asks if you want to talk, just say "no". She's said all that needed to be said. Calm, icy, indifferent. Nothing more to say to her.
I don't want to start an argument with you here, this is MNG's thread.
I don't want to make MNG feel bad, but don't let us ignore the fact why she started having this fog.
Treating a person in a rude way will never gain that person's respect and grateful attitude. She was in a fog, she didn't know what she wanted, she took a wrong short cut to look for excitement, she made a mistake.
MNG knows now it is over, she knows it is over, but how do you end this in a nice way, it needs wisdom.
Right now I'm really calm and centered. I don't have any rage. It seemed to have washed out of me for now. I am exhausted I can tell you that. I got up at 3:30 this morning and hardly got any more sleep. I'm going to have a couple of beers and go to bed early. I'm not sure when/if she is coming back from her friend's house tonight, I don't really care... I'm having a hard time getting worked up about it right now, but if she comes back I might get pissed off again...
No more than ONE beer. Go to bed early . . . in the children's room. That should avoid any unpleasantness.
And take the day off from work tomorrow. You got business to attend to.
And yes, I think she will come crawling back, once she realizes that you're serious and you're resolute. She's counting on you wanting her more than she thinks she wants you, and you folding like a cheap chair. Show some spine and some gonads, and she's going to know she made a mistake -- or at least f-ed-up her life beyond recognition over something stupid.
But while she's in the process of discovering her tragic error, you don't need to hold her hand. She gave up that right when she told you it was over.
Being detached will really help you sooth everything out.
When you care, when you show your desperation, you are in her control. When you are detached, no matter what she does, she can't influence you any more, then you are in your control, then you are intimidating to her. Then she knows that she can't take advantage of you any more.
IanIronwood,
This is a marriage, this is a relationship. Never have the kind of attitude that she will come crawling back to you. When you give the other one this kind of impression, she will just not crawl back. People have dignity. If she crawls back, MNG should just stay away from her. I don't respect a person who crawls back.
She won't come crawling back, it's not in her nature... I'm still a recovering Nice Guy and I can hear in my lizard brain "if she comes crawling back, we can get this thing back on track!". I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I need to very distant for quite a while...
She won't come crawling back, it's not in her nature... I'm still a recovering Nice Guy and I can hear in my lizard brain "if she comes crawling back, we can get this thing back on track!". I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I need to very distant for quite a while...
Keep us posted. I'm just saying that while it's in your best interest to act as if it's over . . . it might not be. Might take weeks or months, but this board is filled with people for whom just this sort of shock was the trigger for them re-inventing their relationships. So I wouldn't say it's hopeless, you should just act like it's hopeless.
Or, y'know, you can just look forward to starting to date again.
All good advice. If you drink ANYTHING - do not speak to her afterwards. I don't care what she does or says. Be silent. Alcohol plus fatigue plus infidelity is a super volatile mix.
You can listen to her - or even better shake your head and say "not tonight" and go in another room and close the door behind you.
Do NOT comfort her if she cries. Just be indifferent. You have a shot here - if you are firm and cold she may fold like a cheap card table and come back and offer unconditional surrender. THAT needs to include a firm NC letter and phone call to the OM. And you might nudge HIS wife to force him to do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanIronwood
No more than ONE beer. Go to bed early . . . in the children's room. That should avoid any unpleasantness.
And take the day off from work tomorrow. You got business to attend to.
And yes, I think she will come crawling back, once she realizes that you're serious and you're resolute. She's counting on you wanting her more than she thinks she wants you, and you folding like a cheap chair. Show some spine and some gonads, and she's going to know she made a mistake -- or at least f-ed-up her life beyond recognition over something stupid.
But while she's in the process of discovering her tragic error, you don't need to hold her hand. She gave up that right when she told you it was over.
All good advice. If you drink ANYTHING - do not speak to her afterwards. I don't care what she does or says. Be silent. Alcohol plus fatigue plus infidelity is a super volatile mix.
You can listen to her - or even better shake your head and say "not tonight" and go in another room and close the door behind you.
Do NOT comfort her if she cries. Just be indifferent. You have a shot here - if you are firm and cold she may fold like a cheap card table and come back and offer unconditional surrender. THAT needs to include a firm NC letter and phone call to the OM. And you might nudge HIS wife to force him to do the same.
As is often the case, I simply cannot add to this.
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Re: EA already moving towards PA! 
