Six month period - TIME PERIOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE STATED.
- No Dating anyone (or the inverse, Dating allowed) - YOU SHOULD MAKE IT ALLOWED AS PER MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE - SHE IS WILLING SHE HAS PROVEN THAT. BE STRONG.
- No seeing/communicating with OM - PART OF DATING, THAT'S HER CHOICE WHERE SHE GOES FROM HERE.
- No splitting up property - AT THIS TIME, WOULDN'T EVEN MENTION IT.
- You can come and go in the house whenever you want - NOT A CHANCE - SHE IS SEPERATING FROM YOU. YOU DESERVCE YOUR PRIVACY AND SHE DEFINATELY NOT BE COMING IN AN OUT AT WILL. DON'T GIVE HER THE PROS OF HER SEPERATION WITHOUT THE CONS. BE STRONG. DON'T MAKE THIS A CAKE WALK FOR HER
- You can see/take the kids to your place whenever you want with prior notification - ABSOLUTELY BOTH PARENTS SHOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT.
- If you want to move back in the house with me at any time, no problem - AGAIN, SHE NEEDS TO MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS BEFORE THAT CAN HAPPEN. IE NO CONTACT WITH THIS MAN, OPENNESS WITH HER PASSWORDS ETC - YOUR BEING TO SOFT WITH HER AND HANDING HER ALL YOUR POWER.
- Cannot completely move out until six months. - SHE CAN DO WHAT SHE WANTS AND WILL.
- You cannot start divorce within six months - SHE CAN DO WHAT SHE WANTS
- Counseling for both of us. - THAT WOULD BE A CONDITION OF YOURS FOR RECONCILIATION IF AND WHEN SHE PROVES SHE WANTS TO MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS AND RECONCILE.
- Keep our joint checking accounts - GREY AREA, I THINK i WOULD BE INCLINED TO HAVE A JOINT ACCOUNT FOR PAYING BILLS TOGETHER BUT TO SPLIT AND HAVE YOUR OWN ACCOUNTS AS WELL.
- No major purchases without prior agreement - IF SHE WANTS A SEPERATION GIVE HER ONE. NO JOINT CREDIT CARDS. FINANCES SEPERATE - PROTECT YOURSELF. DONT' MAKE IT EASY FOR HER.
- Our joint business (our income) as usual
- If you get a job, all money flows into joint personal account -
- Violation of these will instigate divorce proceedings -
Mem and Conrad are much more gifted in there communication skills than I, I hope they chime in here. I really think you need to be firmer in your approach. She cheated. She initiated a seperation. And now she is trying to dictate the terms of that seperation. You can't have a marriage and not a have a marriage. So you get to financially support her, she can come and go as she wishes, she has her own place and she's not working presently, she can date (as she has already demonstrated she is capable of) but your not going to, she can come back whenever she wants with no requirement from you being met.....seeing a pattern here? Why would she come back? She has the perfect scenario. And she certainly is not going to gain any respect for you, or any anxiety from the situation SHE created. This is a point where you REALLY need to man up. She needs to get uncomfortable. She needs to be worrying and thinking about you, she needs to acknowledge, apologize and work at repairing the damage SHE caused. She needs to PROVE to you WHY you should take HER back.
Six month period - TIME PERIOD DOESN'T NEED TO BE STATED.
- No Dating anyone (or the inverse, Dating allowed) - YOU SHOULD MAKE IT ALLOWED AS PER MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE - SHE IS WILLING SHE HAS PROVEN THAT. BE STRONG.
- No seeing/communicating with OM - PART OF DATING, THAT'S HER CHOICE WHERE SHE GOES FROM HERE.
- No splitting up property - AT THIS TIME, WOULDN'T EVEN MENTION IT.
- You can come and go in the house whenever you want - NOT A CHANCE - SHE IS SEPERATING FROM YOU. YOU DESERVCE YOUR PRIVACY AND SHE DEFINATELY NOT BE COMING IN AN OUT AT WILL. DON'T GIVE HER THE PROS OF HER SEPERATION WITHOUT THE CONS. BE STRONG. DON'T MAKE THIS A CAKE WALK FOR HER
- You can see/take the kids to your place whenever you want with prior notification - ABSOLUTELY BOTH PARENTS SHOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT.
- If you want to move back in the house with me at any time, no problem - AGAIN, SHE NEEDS TO MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS BEFORE THAT CAN HAPPEN. IE NO CONTACT WITH THIS MAN, OPENNESS WITH HER PASSWORDS ETC - YOUR BEING TO SOFT WITH HER AND HANDING HER ALL YOUR POWER.
- Cannot completely move out until six months. - SHE CAN DO WHAT SHE WANTS AND WILL.
- You cannot start divorce within six months - SHE CAN DO WHAT SHE WANTS
- Counseling for both of us. - THAT WOULD BE A CONDITION OF YOURS FOR RECONCILIATION IF AND WHEN SHE PROVES SHE WANTS TO MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS AND RECONCILE.
- Keep our joint checking accounts - GREY AREA, I THINK i WOULD BE INCLINED TO HAVE A JOINT ACCOUNT FOR PAYING BILLS TOGETHER BUT TO SPLIT AND HAVE YOUR OWN ACCOUNTS AS WELL.
- No major purchases without prior agreement - IF SHE WANTS A SEPERATION GIVE HER ONE. NO JOINT CREDIT CARDS. FINANCES SEPERATE - PROTECT YOURSELF. DONT' MAKE IT EASY FOR HER.
- Our joint business (our income) as usual
- If you get a job, all money flows into joint personal account -
- Violation of these will instigate divorce proceedings -
Mem and Conrad are much more gifted in there communication skills than I, I hope they chime in here. I really think you need to be firmer in your approach. She cheated. She initiated a seperation. And now she is trying to dictate the terms of that seperation. You can't have a marriage and not a have a marriage. So you get to financially support her, she can come and go as she wishes, she has her own place and she's not working presently, she can date (as she has already demonstrated she is capable of) but your not going to, she can come back whenever she wants with no requirement from you being met.....seeing a pattern here? Why would she come back? She has the perfect scenario. And she certainly is going to gain any respect for your, or any anxiety from the situation SHE created. This is a point where you REALLY need to man up. She needs to get uncomfortable. She needs to be worrying and thinking about you, she needs to acknowledge, apologize and work at repairing the damage SHE caused. She needs to PROVE to you WHY you should take HER back.
Word. She doesn't get to move back in without your express written permission. No brainer. And seeing the OM would invalidate the agreement. As far as financials, how much is she going to pay to support the house and the kids? The vague promise of getting a job and pooling resources is a sucker move for you -- you're giving her pretty much most of what she wants, while keeping her comfortable. Keeping the kid options open is fine, but there needs to be some common agreement there, too.
And DEFINITELY nail down the dating thing. Then Trust But Verify.
I see what you guys are getting at. Get an agreement that makes her uncomfortable, otherwise just stay here at the house with us and the kids and work on the marriage. I got you... if you move out you open the door for me to start having the same fun she just had with her OM!
I can see what she would say already... "this is not a separation, I just need some space". Moving out is a separation, isn't it? Is that a control thing though? I'm trying to get her to stay here. Maybe we don't need an agreement, other than to make her uncomfortable.
The other thing is to do the 180 degree thing with no agreement. One problem in our situation is that we run this business together and she just called me to tell me that we just had a large sale and was very jubilant and wanted to share that with me... I tried to cold, but it is a lot of money.
I see what you guys are getting at. Get an agreement that makes her uncomfortable, otherwise just stay here at the house with us and the kids and work on the marriage. I got you... if you move out you open the door for me to start having the same fun she just had with her OM!
I can see what she would say already... "this is not a separation, I just need some space". Moving out is a separation, isn't it? Is that a control thing though? I'm trying to get her to stay here. Maybe we don't need an agreement, other than to make her uncomfortable.
The other thing is to do the 180 degree thing with no agreement. One problem in our situation is that we run this business together and she just called me to tell me that we just had a large sale and was very jubilant and wanted to share that with me... I tried to cold, but it is a lot of money.
Great -- enjoy the business success. But don't back down on the cold front.
And that BS about this "not being a separation" is right up there with refusing to have sex with you "not being rejection" and her dalliance with another man "not being an affair". If she can't be honest with herself, how is she ever going to be honest with you?
She's trying to "get her space" while you hang out and watch the kids and keep her house and bed warm. That's BS. If she's not uncomfortable, then she's not giving a proper amount of thought to what she's done -- and that's not going to get her head straight.
I see what you guys are getting at. Get an agreement that makes her uncomfortable, otherwise just stay here at the house with us and the kids and work on the marriage. I got you... if you move out you open the door for me to start having the same fun she just had with her OM!
I can see what she would say already... "this is not a separation, I just need some space". Moving out is a separation, isn't it? Is that a control thing though? I'm trying to get her to stay here. Maybe we don't need an agreement, other than to make her uncomfortable.
The other thing is to do the 180 degree thing with no agreement. One problem in our situation is that we run this business together and she just called me to tell me that we just had a large sale and was very jubilant and wanted to share that with me... I tried to cold, but it is a lot of money.
IanIronWood is bang on. It is a seperation. Space is going to your sisters, or sleeping in the guest room. Moving out and getting an apartment is a seperation. And again, I can't say this enough. You should no longer be trying to get her to stay. You are chasing, she is running. If you want her to stop running and pause to look back and where she is running from - STOP CHASING HER. This dynamic needs to change. Even if you were successful, and she stayed - she is going to keep on disrespecting you and you gain nothing because she holds all the cards. You have a real chance here to change the dynamic of your relationship. She needs to acknowledger her behavior and sell you on her.
Everything you have read on manning up etc has a common theme. Set the thermostat lower, quit initiating, quit chasing, let her come to you etc etc etc. Now take your wife, she has strayed, lied and seperated and you are still chasing. I don't know how to illustrate this better but it is now time to change the dynamics and have her chase you. You need to in your head, move on. Start thinking about YOUR future and accept that for the time being you don't have a wife. IF and that's a big IF. She changes her mind and decides to chase you and try and convince you that she can be truley invested in this marriage - then possibly a reconcile is possible. But not until then. And she will NOT reflect back on what she had, or miss it, or work towards fixing it if she experiences no fear on her side of the tracks.
It probably doesn't need to be said at this point, but I'll say it anyway:
YOU are the prize to be won, here, not HER. If she ever wants to get back together with you, she won't appreciate it if you don't make her work for it. And work implies some uncomfortable times and circumstances. Either she wins you back or you move on, but either way the burden is on her. Make her work for it. Or not. And let her know that's the deal. Either way, you'll eventually get what you want. But if you keep making it easy for her, she's just going to take advantage of it like she always has.
Great -- enjoy the business success. But don't back down on the cold front.
And that BS about this "not being a separation" is right up there with refusing to have sex with you "not being rejection" and her dalliance with another man "not being an affair". If she can't be honest with herself, how is she ever going to be honest with you?
She's trying to "get her space" while you hang out and watch the kids and keep her house and bed warm. That's BS. If she's not uncomfortable, then she's not giving a proper amount of thought to what she's done -- and that's not going to get her head straight.
MNG,
Isn't your wife the one who said she as about "95% ready to have sex with you" a couple of weeks back?
Now you have a clear picture of what that meant... NOTHING.
I see what you guys are getting at. Get an agreement that makes her uncomfortable, otherwise just stay here at the house with us and the kids and work on the marriage. I got you... if you move out you open the door for me to start having the same fun she just had with her OM!
I can see what she would say already... "this is not a separation, I just need some space". Moving out is a separation, isn't it? Is that a control thing though? I'm trying to get her to stay here. Maybe we don't need an agreement, other than to make her uncomfortable.
The other thing is to do the 180 degree thing with no agreement. One problem in our situation is that we run this business together and she just called me to tell me that we just had a large sale and was very jubilant and wanted to share that with me... I tried to cold, but it is a lot of money.
IanIronWood is bang on. It is a seperation. Space is going to your sisters, or sleeping in the guest room. Moving out and getting an apartment is a seperation. And again, I can't say this enough. You should no longer be trying to get her to stay. You are chasing, she is running. If you want her to stop running and pause to look back and where she is running from - STOP CHASING HER. This dynamic needs to change. Even if you were successful, and she stayed - she is going to keep on disrespecting you and you gain nothing because she holds all the cards. You have a real chance here to change the dynamic of your relationship. She needs to acknowledger her behavior and sell you on her.
Everything you have read on manning up etc has a common theme. Set the thermostat lower, quit initiating, quit chasing, let her come to you etc etc etc. Now take your wife, she has strayed, lied and seperated and you are still chasing. I don't know how to illustrate this better but it is now time to change the dynamics and have her chase you. You need to in your head, move on. Start thinking about YOUR future and accept that for the time being you don't have a wife. IF and that's a big IF. She changes her mind and decides to chase you and try and convince you that she can be truley invested in this marriage - then possibly a reconcile is possible. But not until then. And she will NOT reflect back on what she had, or miss it, or work towards fixing it if she experiences no fear on her side of the tracks.
So I think I still need some type of loose separation agreement with her, mainly to set some boundaries around what this separation is or isn't. I think it should mainly about our finances and the kids. I don't think I should mention anything about dating unless that is to make her sit up and think.
I thought about having her write one up, but that seems passive to me. Coming at her with an agreement already written up and ready to sign seems more alpha. I need a day or two to mull this over. But I am getting clearer and clearer on this. It is a SEPARATION and not like she's going to sleep at a friends house for a while (like I suggested). We talked about separating about 5 days ago and that's when she moved downstairs for about 12 hours! OK, I hear you all... 180 degrees...
Also, we have an outside investor in our business that I think needs to be notified about the separation because it could put his investment in jeopardy. I need to put that in the agreement also I think.. We have two things going on here the family and the business.
Also, we have an outside investor in our business that I think needs to be notified about the separation because it could put his investment in jeopardy. I need to put that in the agreement also I think.. We have two things going on here the family and the business.
Talk seriously with him about helping you buy/force her out.
Except, I think you stating that dating is ok is the single most important point of all of this. I realize you are scared to death of her doing this. But she's going to do what she is going to do regardless. All your doing with this is putting her on notice that it is now an option for you as well. That's what a seperation is. Your just making it real for her. Should help her gain her focus.
As IanIronWood pointed out: It's not total freedom for her and an open door to your house as you sit and wait and act as her babysitter while she has complete freedom. In fact, your first order of business should be to get her to babysit the kids because you have "plans" - and go out for the evening with friends..... or go to a movie whatever. Just be out and let her wonder. No explanation.
OK, lot of information here. Separation agreement or not? I think I need one legally, especially surround my business. I think that will also make her sit upand listen. Or do I just bring up these topics in a conversation and write an agreement later. I have to keep telling myself she is taking the first step to a divorce and I need some boundaries around it as much as I hate it!
If you are trying to get her attention ... make it a divorce.
So what do you do when you go to her with a separation agreement and she tells you to stuff it ... she's talking to a divorce lawyer?
Make no mistake. Her moving out is not about sorting out her feelings for you. She will try to recover the relationship with TOM, with the new added benefit of being alone ... or she will use her freedom to plan her fantasy life WITHOUT you.
I feel very torn about posting to your thread. 'I' feel like you're getting hammered.
There is no more concise a way to put this.
You need to think and behave as if your marriage is over. You are hoping for that moment where you scare the crap out of her and she says "I give."
That isn't going to happen. Certainly not immediately.
If she is functioning off of the premise of knowing that you want to hang onto her and the marriage, then she has your number. She will manipulate you.
I would strongly urge that if you do anything regarding a separation or a divorce, you do so with a professional rather than a do-it-yourself download. Do what you must. But do so with clarity and conviction. Otherwise ... you get steamrolled.
Deejo, thanks for clarifying that for me. This is going to be as hard as telling the OMW about the whole affair. I hear you... It's only been two days and she seemed to snap back from it pretty quickly, but you are right. As soon as she moves out I bet she is contact the OM again trying to start something up. It's slowly sinking in that may be her intent the whole time and she is still in LaLa land about this guy. I need to come down hard on the divorce issue and make a clear stand... give me a day or two to figure out how I'm going to handle this... I think I'll need to bring our outside investor into the mix with his lawyer.
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Re: EA already moving towards PA! 
