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Old 02-14-2011, 10:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

No matter what - forget the words you/she uses - calm - very few words - constructive.

Something along the lines of - when things get strained in a marriage other people start to seem more attractive. That is a natural reaction. It is also true that you can't fix a marriage while distracted by another person.

IF you get anything other than a firm/absolute commit from her that she has ended it with him I would just let her know that you are not going to work on a marriage with a W who is openly keeping her options open. Don't argue just make the statement.

And the next day I would show up at the guys house without warning before he goes to work. I would pull him aside and tell him that ANY further contact with your W and you are going to bring this battle for your marriage to his door so fast and so hard his head is going to spin and his W is going to start talking to a lawyer. No matter WHAT his denials I would just smile and say "if there is nothing there you will stay away - if you don't - you me and your Wife are going to have a long, detailed conversation about this situation". And if he wouldn't commit to backing off I would suggest a 3 way convo with his wife right then and there. His emails would make a normal W flip out.

I would also tell him that if he "complains" to your W about you interfering you WILL send his emails to his own wife. He can just tell your W he has had a "change of heart"


Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNiceGuy View Post
Well things never go according to plan... I had this whole speech written up that I was going to use to tell her that she can't go see this guy and confess her feelings to him, which is what it sounded like she wanted to do on Saturday night. So we go out to dinner last night for Valentines and I'm a little reserved because I'm trying to steel myself for this speech. We sit down and get a beer and I start telling her that she can't see this guy. If she confesses her feelings to him it's going to turn into some type of PA.

That's as far as I got and she starts telling me there hasn't been a physical affair. The guy doesn't know how she feels. She said that as soon as she talks to him, she will give me full disclosure about what they talked about and then we won't be seeing him for a very long time. He said in the email that he was glad their friendship was getting closer and they had a couple of unfinished conversations.

I did check her emails today and she has arranged a lunch "date" with him at a local eatery and she has to run off to the therapist right after. There is no sexual references or anything but meet me at this place at so and so time. Either she is so computer savvy that I can't find a trace of her affair with this guy (not likely) or I'm seeing pretty much all the conversations in email which is hardly anything. No texts from him. I've check internet history and there is no evidence. She is pretty sloppy about hiding her tracks. I know all her passwords since she's told me and she hasn't ever changed anything.

I don't think she's being completely honest with me, but I also think that she is going to end whatever was going on between them. To be honest I think he was happy to have an affair with my wife, but she is guilt ridden. Why else would she tell me?

Otherwise, she has been fairly pleasant today and we exchanged Vday cards and such. Lots of compliments from her today and generally in a good mood. She has been sharing a book that she has been reading about relationships.

So here is the new plan. I'm going to let her meet this guy. She has a counselor session right afterward and I'm out until late that night. Then we have a joint meeting with the therapist on Friday (which she BTW she said she told the therapist all about this). If I don't hear from her about this meeting by the therapy session on Friday, I will brng it up forcefully and ask for full disclosure and go from there. I don't want to know the gory details, but I think I have a right to know how deep it went.

That's the plan right now and it could change any minute!
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

Do not give your permission for any contact whatsoever.

She will extrapolate that as permission for all contact possible.

The affair is on.

I am sorry for this.

I speak from experience. Going for coffee and a sandwich is never going for coffee and a sandwich.

Wise up.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

MEM has it right!

This is eating you up inside. You feel like total crap! Your stomach is lurching. Your anxious. Your on edge. This situation is making you distrustful.

So.....answer me one question. If this was anyone but your wife, would you put up with this sh$t?!!!!!! If not, then why are you putting up with this from your wife, other than you enjoy the doormat feeling? I know it's hard, and you want to believe the best in your wife, but if I made my wife feel like that, and she asked me to stop specifically BECAUSE it made her feel like that....I would stop! Period! Why? Because she is my wife and why would I want to put someone I love through that hell? Simple love and respect would make me stop! She sees how much this is killing you inside, yet she continues to argue in favor of seeing the OM! That's not what people do to the ones they love.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

Last time I posted, the thread disappeared but here goes. In case you didn't get to read it before the thread was deleted, I'll repeat some of it.

What your wife said to the other day is:

"I want to take a shot at things with this guy. I want to use you as a fall back in case things don't work out. If they don't work out, I'll settle for you"

In other words, Your wife is using you. She can dress it up with lies or say its about emotion. "Oh no, feel so sorry for me, I'm confused!! All this emotion. You treated me so well all our marriage and now I'm confused cause I like this other guy. Can I have permission to go pursue something with him?" She just asked you if its ok to pursue an affair and you're giving her permission.

That is wrong.

You're chump, the sucker, the dupe. You're being played. You think its cool in a marriage to go meet another women and find out how you feel about her? Think she would have stood for that?

Her two options are work on the marriage or end the marriage. Having an affair or chasing another guy to see how she feels is not ok. So what if they haven't had a PA yet? That make some sort of difference? That is a trick, a game, a diversion. Keep your eye focused on what matters.

She is straight up using you and you're letting her. You deserve better. Straighten her out or leave her. Either way your life will be better off.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

Bud, you chicken out on your speech, then decide to let her see him? It almost sounds like you WANT her to cheat and leave you!
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:15 AM   #21 (permalink)
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She is lying to you. You need to realize this. Her affection to you is a manipulation. You should tell her that if she meets with him you will file for divorce and full custody of the children and as much money as possible. You should hire PI to have her followed with pictures. You yourself know they are heading toward a sexual relationsihip as it is the title of your post.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:19 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

Hate to disagree with you guys, gut I don't get the idea that MrNG is ready to go in with guns blazing.

Let me say though, that the "nicer" you are about this - the longer it will be drawn out.

You should have insisted that she not meet him for lunch. If you aren't ready to follow-up with any real consequences yet, don't worry, you'll get there.

Be careful not to make any threats you don't intend to follow through on.

Good luck...
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:55 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

MNG,

Pay attention to MEM's second paragraph.

If you're not ready to fully confront your wife, his plan to visit the OM makes an "almost as good" substitute.
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:02 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nice777guy View Post
Hate to disagree with you guys, gut I don't get the idea that MrNG is ready to go in with guns blazing.

Let me say though, that the "nicer" you are about this - the longer it will be drawn out.

You should have insisted that she not meet him for lunch. If you aren't ready to follow-up with any real consequences yet, don't worry, you'll get there.

Be careful not to make any threats you don't intend to follow through on.

Good luck...
Like hide and seek. Ready or not, here I come!

I personally don't think he has a choice to be ready or not on this issue. It's being forced on him. He either reacts or accepts it. Accepting it will end far worse for him than doing something about it.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:17 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Like hide and seek. Ready or not, here I come!

I personally don't think he has a choice to be ready or not on this issue. It's being forced on him. He either reacts or accepts it. Accepting it will end far worse for him than doing something about it.
I think you have "some" time. You make your feelings clear, but don't make threats/ultimatums unless you are willing to follow through. Including threats to the OM about telling his wife.

Whatever happened here didn't happen overnight - and it won't get fixed overnight either. Even if she agrees to no contact right now - she'll find a way to get back to this guy until her husband can begin to engage her and pull her back towards the him and the marriage.

Telling a Niceguy to Man-Up, start confronting people and to begin making threats is a bit like telling Michael J. Fox to "just" stop shaking.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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An update... I appreciate all the advice. I am not going with guns blazing. I have an opportunity to confront this issue in a controlled environment with the marriage counselor this Friday, unless she comes clean before that. She has already told me she told the counselor, so it's something I can bring up without getting too emotional. Either way, it will be resolved by this Friday...

Also, we had a short talk at 3am this morning when one the kids woke us up. She said she was having problems communicating and was going to write me a letter. I found the letter this morning in my home office.

Basically she says that she has lost a connection with me years ago, her trust in me is zero right now. She wants a simpler life, true engagement, longing for wholeness. She wants to love fully and deeply (with someone, maybe not me). She had conceded on issues that were in her heart and soul wrong for her in order to make me happy. She cannot risk that happening again. She is overwhelmed at the prospect of what it will take to rebuild this marriage, it has to be completely different. She says she will walk down the path with me if I agree to take it slowly, not knowing where it will lead. We will have to sit with our uncomfortable feelings for as long as needed...

I know a lot of this now after reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. I've neglected things for a very long time as so has she. Her recent birthday kicked all this off and here we are today. Just knowing that she is going to "walk down this path" with me is good enough for now. This letter is no wake up call, it's just a distillation of what she has been telling me over the past few weeks. It will take much longer than I thought to heal our issues. I am cautiously optimistic that we can work through it for a while.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: EA already moving towards PA!

[QUOTE=nice777guy;254058
Telling a Niceguy to Man-Up, start confronting people and to begin making threats is a bit like telling Michael J. Fox to "just" stop shaking.[/QUOTE]

Thijs isn't about manning up. His wife just took the marriage off of the planet earth into something called fantasy land. In fantasy land a wife can go meet another man to discuss their feelings for each other. That concept is bizarre to me in the context of a marriage. His wife manipulated MNG into thinking fantasy land and planet earth are one and the same. He needs to pull her back to earth where wives don't meet other married men to discuss their feelings for each other. By him playing into the fantasy, she now feels that fantasy land is actually REAL. What else will happen there? Nothing good whatsoever.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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MNG,
You are losing sight of something very precious. While I actually think it is perfectly fine for your W to be all over the map with YOU as she has been recently and for her to expect you to be her rock as she has, it is absolutely NOT ok for her to explore her "other" options in parallel.

My W has initiated precipice dances with me numerous times during our marriage. I stay solid and she comes to her senses rapidly. Dance over I don't hold it against her or "generally speaking" bring it up after the fact.

But had she started to explore the possibility of my replacement while living in our house, wearing OUR wedding rings the gloves come off. NOT because it would hurt my male pride. But rather because you cannot hope to fix a marriage with a spouse who is behaving that way. It is not possible. She will lose her respect for herself, for you AND for the marriage if you allow that.

MY boundary is simple. You can say/do just about anything one on one with me. You are upset, angry afraid - let it out. Likely we will get past it. BUT bring another guy to the table and we separate. And while separated, you even talk to that other guy and I file. This isn't alpha - it isn't beta. It is just insisting that she treat you the way she would demand you treat her.

I say with certainty that if YOU were meeting another woman for lunch your W would be in her attorneys office drawing up papers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNiceGuy View Post
An update... I appreciate all the advice. I am not going with guns blazing. I have an opportunity to confront this issue in a controlled environment with the marriage counselor this Friday, unless she comes clean before that. She has already told me she told the counselor, so it's something I can bring up without getting too emotional. Either way, it will be resolved by this Friday...

Also, we had a short talk at 3am this morning when one the kids woke us up. She said she was having problems communicating and was going to write me a letter. I found the letter this morning in my home office.

Basically she says that she has lost a connection with me years ago, her trust in me is zero right now. She wants a simpler life, true engagement, longing for wholeness. She wants to love fully and deeply (with someone, maybe not me). She had conceded on issues that were in her heart and soul wrong for her in order to make me happy. She cannot risk that happening again. She is overwhelmed at the prospect of what it will take to rebuild this marriage, it has to be completely different. She says she will walk down the path with me if I agree to take it slowly, not knowing where it will lead. We will have to sit with our uncomfortable feelings for as long as needed...

I know a lot of this now after reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. I've neglected things for a very long time as so has she. Her recent birthday kicked all this off and here we are today. Just knowing that she is going to "walk down this path" with me is good enough for now. This letter is no wake up call, it's just a distillation of what she has been telling me over the past few weeks. It will take much longer than I thought to heal our issues. I am cautiously optimistic that we can work through it for a while.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Basically she says that she has lost a connection with me years ago, her trust in me is zero right now. She wants a simpler life, true engagement, longing for wholeness. She wants to love fully and deeply (with someone, maybe not me). She had conceded on issues that were in her heart and soul wrong for her in order to make me happy. She cannot risk that happening again. She is overwhelmed at the prospect of what it will take to rebuild this marriage, it has to be completely different. She says she will walk down the path with me if I agree to take it slowly, not knowing where it will lead. We will have to sit with our uncomfortable feelings for as long as needed...
No way on earth she writes this letter if she doesn't feel option B (other guy) is real and gives her what you do not. This is her internal justification to cheat. "See MNG I told you what I needed and it's not my fault that OM gives it to me and you don't. You never disagreed with my letter so I know you DO agree with me!"
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:10 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Ok. I don't get this entire situation. Or maybe I do....soooooooo confused.

Your wife tells you the OM doesn't know about her feelings and it's just a crush. But she wants to meet him to tell her about her feelings? So.....basically she's telling you that before she decides what to do with YOU, she wants to find out what he feels about HER? Friend! Can you not see how wrong this is on so many levels?

You can justify this in your mind all you want about how it's ok, it's just talk. BUT, it's NOT ok! Your the second choice! She's telling you with her actions that you are the second choice if there is nothing better out there for her! And not just you! If I'm correct, you have children, right? It seems she is not even thinking about them either.

MNG. I realize in your mind there is much to lose. If you give an ultimatum, you may lose your wife. What you don't realize is that you already lost her! She's not with you emotionally in your marriage right now, and you are the doormat. This is the irony that you haven't yet realized in your mind right now, which is causing you to still be the nice guy you were making soooooooo much great progress in eliminating.

Well, no one can make you give an ultimatum if your mentally not ready. I was at the same place you are right now during my wifes EA. I was too scared to kick her a$$ to the curb, and justified any excuse she gave me as a valid legitimate reason, even though it tore me up inside. But I didn't realize that I already lost the game anyways. You know what my breaking point was? Even after all her excuses about being just friends, it's not really an affair because it wasn't physical, she deserved the EA because she didn't feel close to me anymore, etc, etc,etc. It was reading a text to her EA 'boyfriend' about how her heart was always with him, during the entire 15 years of our relationship. Wow! Rrrrrriiiiiiiip! Hear that? That was the sound of my heart getting gouged out of my chest. Right then and there, I fell completely out of love with my wife. The next day, I told her that our marriage was over. Time to find an apartment, dear!

So...what the he'll was the point of that story? Well, nothing really. Just using literary freedom to say that at some point you will get to that point too. In all honesty, I hope you don't have to, but in the end, if you do, you'll just know when it's time. In the meantime, don't let yourself get walked all over in the chance that you think if you are just a little more understanding and patient, everything will work out. You still have your self respect to nurture. Don't forget that.
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