MEM11363

One thing helped limit the damage of the "other options" conversation. She knows I do not WANT to go that route. In essence that is a door she would have to "push" me through. Most of her anger has to do with my sense of entitlement.

I get that. This isn't easy. My sense of "entitlement" truly has steadily decreased over 21 years. It will never go to zero. Nor should it. We are "married" not BFF's. That said, I sure am going to express my needs WAY WAY WAY WAY more kindly than I used to.

MEM11363

Deejo,
I agree with your point here. I guess maybe it seems like my W and I are constantly playing "games". But the "games" are intended as a source of entertainment, not a means to screw your partner over.

As for our genuine power struggles. They are not malicious. They are just the result of an often irresistable force (her) colliding with a sometimes immovable object (me).

If you watch "The blind side" my W is kind of like the W in the movie. And me - I am 90 percent like the husband and 10 percent like the W. Meaning 10 percent of the time I become rather determined.

But watch the two of them. They are happy. We are happy.

I escaped my quota this morning due to a schedule conflict.

MEM11363

I sucked it up and stayed the course. The mini-marathon ended last night. She gave me the nicest, kindest look and told me if I was tired i could have the night off. I declined and responded with

"In the last week you have educated me more than you did during 21 years of "conversation". Thank you for doing that and I am sorry for being so - slow." I got an unexpected response. She said "I am sorry this has been a difficult part of our marriage for you".

WTF? In this part of the marriage I give her WAY higher marks than I give myself. I just told her that was "nonsense" and that I loved her. And then we connected and it was great.

This lesson plan is however now "deeply etched" in my head.

Therealbrighteyes

Mem,
I do hope you have a vast takeaway from all this. I know you love your wife deeply and the two of you seem to have a bond that is unbreakable. Having said that, I hope you understand that you being the HD person does not make it okay to use threats or forms of intimidation to get your wife to have sex with you. Honestly, when you posted what you did, I lost a bit of respect for you and I could completely feel what hurt your wife must have felt. Add to that her physical pain (which granted you were not aware of) and I can imagine your words were crushing to her.
I think she hatched a plan and it was a brilliant one. She could have gone the other way and built up resentment and bitterness but she did not. Her approach was fantastic and hilarious all at the same time and I have nothing but respect for Mrs. Mem and her ability to seek a funny solution to what must have been a very emotionally painful time in her life, in an effort to save her marriage.
I think the reason she said it must be difficult for you is because she saw your anxiety, hell we all saw it yet she wanted to prove a very valuable point. She has felt anxious too, yet you gave her little pass. When the tables were turned she was compassionate yet still pressed on with her agenda. She handled this situation (in my opinion) with grace, class and style and you should treasure a woman like that for the rest of your life.

MEM11363

Amen.

reachingshore

Hmm.. I can think of 3 options:

a. At the time she didn't feel like needing much of sex, you had to kinda force her to it - I am sure on certain level it wasn't pleasant to you either thus in a way it took away from the quality of experience.

At the time she decided to turn the tables on you, when technically you should be in heaven.. uh, "technical" difficulties.

b. She talked about your difficulties with "education". Proper education according to MEM's Wife: "Now you finally learned that in the end it's never really about sex, but about love and devotion"

c. (since I have no clue what her body language/tone of voice was) **poke** **poke** **poke** in regards to, uh, "technical" difficulties, and your enforced and somewhat painful realization thereof



So.. can we all start celebrating the victory in this particular (stage of) "conflict"/friction/battle?

__________________
If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear. - Paulo Coelho

Conrad

Once you realize that's what it's about, it becomes - at the same time - a glorious and breathtaking test.

I'm actually speaking from the "other side" now. But, that doesn't mean I've "relaxed" - not for a minute.

Deej - I truly wish you could experience what MEM and I apparently have. I think it's in your future - somehow, some way.

You deserve it.

__________________
"Forgive or Re-Live"

-AFEH

Catherine602

MEM I appreciate your relationship advice which is is clear and at times brilliant but I think you have not figured out your own relationship. I can't believe your wife said she was sorry. WOW. MEM how did you luck out to have so wonderful a wife that you have put her through so much? I now see something she does not see apparently but I bet you do. You need her much more than she needs you. She should have called you bluff with your boundaries stuff. she may yet do that she is smart enough she just has not been pushed far enough.

She is the one with the real value, too bad she does not know. But it is typical of woman to think that men have all of the options due to the low value pop culture tries to inflict on women. I guess some finally realize their value, maybe that's why 75% of divorces are initiated by women after the children are out of the home. You would never find anyone like her ever again if you cheated on her. You will manage to find a sex partner, they are a dime a dozen but never a woman that comes anywhere close to the woman you have now. But I think you know that. If I were you, i would treat her according her value in your life, lest she be pushed the point of reflection and have an epiphany and realize her value and call your bluff next time you said or did anything to indicate she had no value.

Her intelligence and guile may yet bring her to realize her value against some random sexual partner you might humiliate her with.

Funny I just now saw that.
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MEM11363

Reaching,
She didn't push it to failure. Just to the point where - one morning I couldn't finish. I stayed ummm - up - just could not reach the rapture....

Still - I DID have anxiety.

reachingshore

My take on the sorry is slightly different, Catherine.

Not this -> "I am sorry for putting you through this" (apology)

But this -> "I am sorry (matter-of-factly). It had to be done for you to get the point" (with a tinge of empathy and sympathy)

BUT.. her actual wording was perfect! Allows for either-or, or both at once. It all actually depends only on how MEM interprets it.

Very smart

MEM: I never said "failure". I said "technical difficulties".

__________________
If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear. - Paulo Coelho

MEM11363

Catherine,
Think about this for a moment. The person best able to perceive the "gestalt" of this situation - and it is not a simple situation by any stretch - is my W. If you think about the context in which she apologized for her part in this - she did so without ANY pressure from me. In fact I was frankly shocked. I had just acknowledged my piece of this - and apologized.

Even though INITIALLY this was ENTIRELY an exercise in education/training, something about this situation did cause her drive to explode. Regardless of WHY it did, we had a week where she became almost crazed with desire. THAT part I can tell you was real. And I think that suddenly for the very first time she saw what it was like to be the HD partner. And it was a lightbulb moment.

We have spent almost 8,000 days together. And I think suddenly she realized that there have been a couple thousand nights where I WANTED to, she didn't and I was 100 percent supportive, kind and understanding. That recognition on her part - was purely a happy accident for BOTH of us. At some level she has always "known" it, but last night she "felt" it.

It isn't a small thing she routinely says "you treat me like gold". So while I freely acknowledge that I got off "light" here, this situation is no where near as one sided as it might seem at first glance.

MEM11363

Actually last year was our "low water" mark. I just let her initiate as I could tell she was so not feeling it.

After our confrontation 2-3 months ago frequency and quality increased for both of us.

As for last night - hah - I 'thought' the test was over. She totally gaslighted me. I got "out" of this morning because I had to leave for a very unusual Sunday morning work thing. NOT golf. Real work. Up at 6 am. I TRIED to gently extricate from tonight. I am TIRED. Genuinely TIRED. Not of sex - it was a looonnnngggg day. I was a total stud today. I did the work thing this morning - which was physical. Closed a decent sized sale right afterwards. Did 6 load of laundry. Cooked a kick ass dinner. Played 1.5 hours of racquetball with her. I think I EARNED the night off. Apparently I didn't. Jeesh - today was SUNDAY. Oh - and did I mention I installed a new shower head this afternoon. FCS - what do you have to do around here to get a ONE NIGHT reprieve? She just smiled and said - relax I will do ALL the work if need be. And then in perfect mimicry of the "jerky me" said "but we talked about it earlier and I have been looking forward to IT all day". Why did I EVER get in the habit of saying that?

LonelyNLost

MEM, your wife is a perfect match for you. This somewhat humorous but very real experiment by your brilliant wife hopefully taught you something. I know I won't forget it! She's a mastermind and it sounds like she pulled it all off perfectly.

__________________
~ You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if you don't trust enough. ~

Or, you could be a big sap and trust your husband, and he could end up being a lying, spineless, cheater.

Kobo

Haven't read all the post but I fail to see a problem here IMO you need to look at This a challenge. let the alpha take over for the beta . See what you still got. If she can get it up then you put it down. Good luck. Sounds like a good time.
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reachingshore

MEM, at this point I would say she might be really really enjoying herself physically. She mentally developed a taste for it?

Let me explain. Right in the beginning of our relationship it became clear to me that my husband (once he gets to it) will not leave me be after I've had 1, 2 or 3 orgasms. I remember we were in the middle of doing it and I felt I couldn't take it anymore, that's it for me, I can't anymore. But he kept going. I thought "Damn, he is still enjoying himself. Why can't I? Why shouldn't I?". Right at THAT moment, BAM, enter another orgasm. But.. but.. but.. I thought I couldn't anymore!!??

I view it as up until that time, he'd had to kinda coax those orgasms out of me. Since then I just have them. It's mental, not physical. It completely changed my perception.

Your Wife might be reeeeeeeally into it right now. If that's the case, You are screwed.

__________________
If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear. - Paulo Coelho