I did google grieving within a relationship and found some interesting stuff. A couple of people's experiences I read resonated strongly, to do with EAs. I'm not saying what happened WAS an EA, but it scared me that the elements were there and it could have so easily gone further. I don't want to worry about something that DIDN'T happen, but I think there is a residual doubt left, that I could have so easily not known anything about it- but more that what if a similar situation comes up again, how would he handle that?
I mean, he goes to work, he comes into contact with different people at every job he does, there's always going to be women around, some will flirt, find him attractive, and I will worry about that. He's told me before of some REALLY overtly suggestive things women have done and said, and whilst previously I would have laughed with him, now I'll be wondering what he'd think if someone put it out there that they liked him, if they'd have made it obvious because of how HE'D behaved, intentionally or not, if he found them attractive, would he do anything, would he tell me, does he know where the line is drawn over what is appropriate or not (eg texting another woman, making friends on FB.)
He is being super nice, and I can't fault his attentions. Moreover, they feel really genuine and heartfelt.
He had the beginning of a PA with the EA most likely happening before that. I don't think what your husband did was flirt with possibilities...he actually participated.
Great, it's nice to see that you are controlling the urge to role backwards. It's an up hill battle at first but when you crest, you'll know it was worth the trip.
Are you still taking care of yourself? Don't forget to give your husband a big hug and kiss!!
Been having a bad couple of days. I thought we were moving forwards; however I am finding my everyday thoughts being interrupted by random questions about what happened with the girl.
Always stuff I hadn't already thought about. Some seem terribly important (did he talk to her about us and she knew we hadn't been getting on? Why did he take her number "out of politeness only" yet use it to text her later?), other things I know are silly (did he buy her Love Heart sweets- silly but I like to do that for him now and again.)
He continues to be loving and caring, yet I have it in my head at the mo that he has minimised what happened. I can't get past this at the mo. What can I do?
Read your post previous to your latest. If you want to go forward you have to make a choice to do this.
I would be doing the same as you in having many questions and issues over the whole ordeal as well as having a hard time trusting him but, quite frankly, I wouldn't be nearly as understanding or accepting of love and caring from him until I had settled myself emotionally with what he had done to me.
Been having a bad couple of days. I thought we were moving forwards; however I am finding my everyday thoughts being interrupted by random questions about what happened with the girl.
Always stuff I hadn't already thought about. Some seem terribly important (did he talk to her about us and she knew we hadn't been getting on? Why did he take her number "out of politeness only" yet use it to text her later?), other things I know are silly (did he buy her Love Heart sweets- silly but I like to do that for him now and again.)
He continues to be loving and caring, yet I have it in my head at the mo that he has minimised what happened. I can't get past this at the mo. What can I do?
Been having a bad couple of days. I thought we were moving forwards; however I am finding my everyday thoughts being interrupted by random questions about what happened with the girl.
Always stuff I hadn't already thought about. Some seem terribly important (did he talk to her about us and she knew we hadn't been getting on? Why did he take her number "out of politeness only" yet use it to text her later?), other things I know are silly (did he buy her Love Heart sweets- silly but I like to do that for him now and again.)
He continues to be loving and caring, yet I have it in my head at the mo that he has minimised what happened. I can't get past this at the mo. What can I do?
Try PM to Affaircare and see if her perspective helps. There is no way around this process. Although you can listen to advice you have to do it the way that works for you and your husband. It may not follow any prescribed rules. It does not hurt to listen to advice.
I would find it hard to not be able to ask questions until I was satisfied I worked things out so that I could move on. You will not be able to be truly intimate with him if you have to hide who you are.
Do you hesitate because you think he will not respond well? He may continue to seem to minimize what happened, but how can you tell that. When you posted something to the effect that it was not an emotional affair. I did not want to challenge you on this, if it helped you to move on, but i think it is not.
You are reacting to this as if it were an EA but trying to convince your self it was not. I think it was an emotional affair. That is one of the things you are grappling with. It is important to move forward but do so authentically or it will not work for you.
You may hide your true feelings out of fear now, but it inevitably comes out in unhealthy ways. So the question is how do you reveal yourself in a healthy way, accept the person he is and decide if you can come to trust and love him fully.
He is revealing some of himself too. Can you love the person he is? He is not the person you thought he was, and you are probably not to him either. Can you commit to love each other reveal yourselves and feel safe that the other person will accept you and still love you. You will only know if you try.
The risk is always there that the relationship may not work out and that may be why you should begin to get yourself to a place where you can chose to stay or go. You chose to not be backed into a corner with only him having the choice to walk. Making a free choice may release your fear and you may be able to love and forgive him more easily and completely.
Don't forget to give him a spontaneous hug to let him know he is doing the right thing by you.
Been having a bad couple of days. I thought we were moving forwards; however I am finding my everyday thoughts being interrupted by random questions about what happened with the girl.
Always stuff I hadn't already thought about. Some seem terribly important (did he talk to her about us and she knew we hadn't been getting on? Why did he take her number "out of politeness only" yet use it to text her later?), other things I know are silly (did he buy her Love Heart sweets- silly but I like to do that for him now and again.)
He continues to be loving and caring, yet I have it in my head at the mo that he has minimised what happened. I can't get past this at the mo. What can I do?
First I just wanted to say that I'm glad you came back. I was worried you would "stay gone."
Next, I want to clear up something right now. Faithfulness is defined as "forsaking all others" as in the vows, and that means that in order to honor his promise to you, he owes you "100% of his affection and loyalty." When a person is giving someone else even SOME of their affection or SOME of their loyalty over and above their spouse...they have been unfaithful. If I remember the facts correctly, your hubby did flirt with her a bit (giving some of his affection) and when you two were living apart and he wasn't sure where the marriage would head, he got her treats (giving some loyalty to her over you). In addition, whether she kissed him or he kissed her...they KISSED (giving affection). So no matter how much he wants to minimize it, he was unfaithful and you are not unreasonable to view it and treat it as if it is an EA.
Finally I do have a suggestion for you both--you and Mr. Tobio--that I think would help YOU get through your concerns and questions and that I think would be reasonable for him. Give him the example I'm about to tell you so he kind of understands why you have these questions, and it should help him see why it makes sense.
You two are working on this huge puzzle that is "Your Life." He has many, many pieces that you do not have and he put them together and is able to see the picture in the area that is the EA-Area. YOU do not have the same pieces and do not see the whole picture, so you are scrambling to find pieces and to make sense of the picture which you don't even see! As you ask questions, it gives you pieces, and the more pieces you have, the more you'll be able to see that big picture.
[FYI--one issue I do see on the occasion is that a person will get a piece from their spouse and then keep asking over and over for the piece they already have. So just keep that in mind.]
So I suggest that you be transparent with him and let him know that you do still have questions about what occurred. Then you two agree together that you will ask him ONE question a day and he will answer ONE question fully and completely ("I don't know" does not count as an answer.) And agree together that you will restrict the talk to 30-60 minutes so that it doesn't turn into a four-hour Spanish Inquisition. Pick whatever amount of time you like (30 min., 45 min., etc.) and just agree. Then finally, once he has answered fully and completely and the agreed upon time is up, that you won't ask for that piece again (over and over) and the honest answer will not be held against him for a punishment.
Does that make sense? Ask him--you need to know, and he needs to know why he did it and own what he did. Okay??
AC and everyone- thanks for your reponses. I have a few things I want to go through so in no particular order...
First off, we had an initial counselling session at the start of last week and are now awaiting a regular appointment slot.
Ah the minimising... Right. He has told me a lot of different little details, at different times. As time has gone from when he initially told me what happened, the "incident" and other things around it change during different conversations. He has gone from (in his words) kissing a girl and being unfaithful, to saying it was nothing and if the situation were reversed exactly, he wouldn't be bothered about me kissing someone else. A lot of the things are only little things, but it's the fact they keep changing.
AC- he WON'T own it. He says he does, he says he IS accountable, that he takes responsibility. But he HASN'T. He has very vaguely stated he "must have done something" to lead her to feel a kiss would be reciprocated. He hasn't said what it was he must have done. His take is basically he talked to her about random stuff, for the last few days he was there. He liked the attention of another woman but won't go so far as to say what constitutes attention apart from talking about holidays? Thus I am sat here trying to work out how they got from supposed random conversation over three or four days to her kissing him. Now he says he didn't even like her like that, yet took her number out of politeness, and texted her to be friendly. Now... I am never going to get any further with this until he can be accountable for his actions. As long as he's saying, "I DON'T KNOW why I went to say goodbye to her", "I DON'T KNOW why I hugged her when she asked," and "I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING when I took her number", then he is evading responsibility. He is playing dumb instead of taking ownership and I know this is a MAJOR obstacle for me, because as long as he can't 'fess up to knowing WHY he did these things, I can't believe he will, should he ever come across this situation again, act any differently. And I will not live in that state of wondering IF he knows where to draw the line in the future.
I should add, he is very acknowledging of my distress. He is being very caring. Very attentive. He IS answering questions I have, and being understanding if I am being quiet and just waiting until bad feeling passes. He has also said he feels guilt and shame. The thing is, he feels guilt towards me for causing me upset. He doesn't see that admitting the shame betrays his attempts to explain away what happened as "nothing"- because, if it WAS nothing, why did he confess to being unfaithful and why does he feel shame about it?
The puzzle analogy AC, I used this the other week to explain how I was feeling. He got it. However he withheld a piece when he neglected to tell me about leaving treats for her. He answers questions but EVERYTHING is innocent. He does not admit to weakness in any answer he gives. It's actually laughable when you step back and look- if you take his words, we are going through this situation because of something that meant nothing, that he never thought about, that he didn't have any active part in...
I asked him a few questions that were on my mind. He answered- I can see it was with a heavy heart, the "oh no not this again" sigh, but he did.
I also realised something. Bear with me whilst I try to explain this.
I have been convinced he has not been 100% truthful. But... I realised my asking questions and wondering about things he said and how they happened, ISN'T that I think he's lying. It's not a disbelief in his words, but in his ACTIONS. I can for the most part believe what he tells me happened, I am just having trouble believing how he actually behaved.
I think my problem lies in accepting that he DID behave that way, in a way that crosses boundaries, and that either he did this because he didn't think, didn't realise it would hurt me, or didn't realise what he was doing was crossing a boundary. Or even that he MAY have realised but behaved that way anyway. I know it's such a cliche but I *never* would have thought it of him- and neither would he.
He did go some way last night in owning his part. He liked knowing she was keen on him and she made it clear to an awful lot of people there. What does upset me is that there was no boundaries set, she knew of me and the kids but he says he hardly mentioned me. It seems he had people encouraging him to make a move, he laughed it off as people "knew his situation" but it seems he neglected to make his situation (ie in a MONOGAMOUS relationship and no intentions of anything with anyone else) clear to her. He says in retrospect he put himself in a bad situation, had no idea she'd make a pass at him (!) but he still isn't totally appreciating that texting her is crossing a line- he continues to say he was being "friendly."
I also asked how do I know that if he found himself on the end of such attentions again, that he wouldn't do the same? "Of course I wouldn't, I'm not like that."
He seems fixated on thinking that *I* am thinking he is carrying on, that I think he is the sort of person that would lie, cheat, establish a relationship behind my back. I think he has trouble understanding the meanings and possible intentions I have seen in his actions. For example: he came home from work and didn't say anything about what had happened. He texted her later that evening. TO ME, that looks secretive, like he was hiding what happened and possibly that he wanted to keep in touch. TO HIM, because he stopped it and walked off, it didn't "mean anything" and therefore he texted her later just being "friendly." He has trouble stepping back and seeing it from my perspective.
I have to choose to believe that either he stepped outside a boundary KNOWING what he was doing, or he did so COMPLETELY NOT REALISING. And neither feels better than the other tbh right now. And I *also* have to get to the point where I can BELIEVE he now grasps where the boundaries are and respects them before I feel confident about moving forward.
His openness and honesty about this should be really encouraging to you. He is displaying an extraordinary amount of courage and faithfulness to you. He's putting himself at your mercy, asking forgiveness, and expressing a willingness to work things out even after having violated your trust.
I think this thread is a good tool to outlet some feelings, and for OH to continue to read if he wishes. However, the stuff I posted that I deleted... Well, it IS true, but somewhat transient. I don't feel upset and betrayed ALL of the time. I don't want to appear like I am teetering on an invisible "edge" every day working hard to step back but feeling like it's fruitless. I do feel like that a lot at the mo, but I didn't last week and I probably won't in a couple of days.
It's the forgiveness I'm thinking hard about. I thought I HAD, but I haven't. Cue occasional-but-noticeable outbursts of some proper passive aggressive snapping. And any time he criticises, says I'm wrong, what I actually HEAR is, "see what I mean- you're not good enough for me." That is hard, very hard. I realise I am endowing his words with that meaning, but it's not an easy thought process to break free from.
I don't know how to be ABLE to forgive him. How do I start? How do I do that without feeling like I'm actually saying, "you hurt me, trampled on my feelings and put me aside for a temporary ego boost, you caused so much trouble, but here you go- it's fine, I'm your doormat, come back it's ok?"
Re: He kissed another woman... 
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