Think of things you've done that he does not understand - and how he has dealt with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobio
Yup, got it, thanks
I think this thread is a good tool to outlet some feelings, and for OH to continue to read if he wishes. However, the stuff I posted that I deleted... Well, it IS true, but somewhat transient. I don't feel upset and betrayed ALL of the time. I don't want to appear like I am teetering on an invisible "edge" every day working hard to step back but feeling like it's fruitless. I do feel like that a lot at the mo, but I didn't last week and I probably won't in a couple of days.
It's the forgiveness I'm thinking hard about. I thought I HAD, but I haven't. Cue occasional-but-noticeable outbursts of some proper passive aggressive snapping. And any time he criticises, says I'm wrong, what I actually HEAR is, "see what I mean- you're not good enough for me." That is hard, very hard. I realise I am endowing his words with that meaning, but it's not an easy thought process to break free from.
I don't know how to be ABLE to forgive him. How do I start? How do I do that without feeling like I'm actually saying, "you hurt me, trampled on my feelings and put me aside for a temporary ego boost, you caused so much trouble, but here you go- it's fine, I'm your doormat, come back it's ok?"
I think we're gonna have trouble here- he is very, VERY laid back and responds VERY differently.
However, let's have a think.
Lighthearted things... He either looks puzzled or laughs, says he can't work me out, tells me I'm quirky/individual/different, and shrugs his shoulders and whatever it is just "is."
Deeper things... He shows surprise, expresses it verbally, talks about it a little. He might come back to it later or another day, mentioning it, asking again. But never much, always very even, understated almost. He has told me recently about a lot of things he has laboured over in his head about things I have done in the past, that I NEVER KNEW he thought about. I feel sad he never firmly addressed them if he thought about them so much.
I know you have never done "this sort of thing" to him and it's very painful. Yet, for a man, there are things women do that create intense pain also. Sometimes, they are things of which they are unaware.
Being able to detach and see some of the injuries you've caused him softens the focus and facilitates forgiveness.
It may have been you choosing the kids over him at an important moment. He may have taken that as emasculation.
I hope this is clear.
The short version is, "Seeing our own sins clearly helps make our hearts contrite and forgiving"
His openness and honesty about this should be really encouraging to you. He is displaying an extraordinary amount of courage and faithfulness to you. He's putting himself at your mercy, asking forgiveness, and expressing a willingness to work things out even after having violated your trust.
I know you have never done "this sort of thing" to him and it's very painful. Yet, for a man, there are things women do that create intense pain also. Sometimes, they are things of which they are unaware.
Being able to detach and see some of the injuries you've caused him softens the focus and facilitates forgiveness.
It may have been you choosing the kids over him at an important moment. He may have taken that as emasculation.
I hope this is clear.
The short version is, "Seeing our own sins clearly helps make our hearts contrite and forgiving"
I get you. But- and tell me if I'm reading this wrong- that sounds almost like me identifying things I've done that justify what he did.
It's funny you know, he always said I never needed to change anything about me as he was happy with how I was. In retrospect it's not true but I think he did believe it on some level.
So is it knowing that I can and have caused pain to him in some way makes it easier to understand how he could have done it maybe?
>>So is it knowing that I can and have caused pain to him in some way makes it easier to understand how he could have done it maybe?<<
That's exactly it.
And, it would probably help if it was something selfish - because that's what this was.
I've done the very thing he did. Not to this (current) spouse. And, I can tell you the "fog" people speak about is present. My wife calls it the "getting to know you phase" of a friendship. And, it's easy for it to touch up against and cross a boundary if you're not careful. And, it is selfish because it's thoughtless.
I'm sure he has forgiven you for whatever it may have been.
It doesn't justify anything, but it does help you see potential for mistakes that won't be repeated if we're appropriately armed with information.
Ok. My immediate thought was of like-for-like, but I have been in situations since the start of our relationship where I could have, very easily, done what he did, or taken it even further, and never told him. But I didn't. I even had an "offer" the night we broke up once, for only a night, but I had the foresight to see that if I had done anything that night, and we got back together, it would have been baaaad, so I didn't do anything.
I don't know, but does the way I was behaving before count? I mean, I feel that I was too pressing, not in what I wanted, which I feel was legitimate, but in how I went about it? I know I made him feel unappreciated, and that was never my intention becaused I always did and have appreciated him, but I can see how it could have come across as "what do do is never enough."
Ok. My immediate thought was of like-for-like, but I have been in situations since the start of our relationship where I could have, very easily, done what he did, or taken it even further, and never told him. But I didn't. I even had an "offer" the night we broke up once, for only a night, but I had the foresight to see that if I had done anything that night, and we got back together, it would have been baaaad, so I didn't do anything.
I don't know, but does the way I was behaving before count? I mean, I feel that I was too pressing, not in what I wanted, which I feel was legitimate, but in how I went about it? I know I made him feel unappreciated, and that was never my intention becaused I always did and have appreciated him, but I can see how it could have come across as "what do do is never enough."
And she showed him the appreciation he was missing.
He was weakened and also a bit prideful.
Bad combination, but if you can see how it could happen AND keep your eye on maximizing the chances that it doesn't happen again (by adjusting your behavior), forgiveness becomes the next logical step in moving forward.
In the end, people are going to make their own mistakes - and we hope they take responsibility. I think he's a bit wary of why the subject keeps coming up, but it will likely dawn on him that you are working on yourself - and your understanding of what was missing in the relationship that nudged him towards vulnerability.
I've brought up the kid issue before. It may be worth a chat about his role with them - and how you view his relationship with them. If he's feeling that he's shunted aside for them - or some lack of backup in authority - you may get to the root of underappreciation.
Yeah, the appreciation thing is something I had thought about. I understand it but it seems soooo, I don't know, frustrating. On my part, I feel I started off respectfully, requesting more affection.I guess it frustrates me that if he'd only respected that when I initially asked, things wouldn't have gone down the resentful path and ended up here. Maybe I'm being simplistic because from what he's said, I know that's not all there is to it- at that point, he was already resentful through issues with the children and the affection was baically a tool of control for him. It's almightily hurtful to know that this is what contributed to what he did.
As an aside, I logged into my FB earlier to find a private message from that girl. It was dated from the day I initially messaged her but has only appeared today; it appears that when I messaged her, she locked down her FB and blocked me so her message didn't appear then, and so now for whatever reason (I wonder) she has unblocked me, because I can now see her on FB and the message.
I just asked her what happened between them. Her message simply says: "Important: honestly, absolutely nothing." I am curious as to why she would go a couple of weeks then go to the effort of unblocking me. To the best of my knowledge there has been no contact between them apart from what I already know but I feel quite wary, like she might be seeing if she can check up on him via my profile.
There is more going on. If he is nervous at you looking at his messages and also refuses to tell you who she is, he is hiding quite alot.
I too would not be ready to toss him under the bus just yet but like you said, your gut is telling you something is off. Most womens gut instincts are right.
If you want to know what is really going on, you could purchase a voice activated recorder which costs about $50 and you would hide it in his car. That would allow you to hear any conversations he has, and particularly if he is having any with her. Emails, texts, fb is pretty easy to delete and he has already proven that he is in fact deleting these things. On top of that, after the kiss happened HE requested to friend her on fb. Something is off.
I think you need to snoop for a while and stay quiet about it, I would install a keylogger on his comp, you will be able to see all his passwords and you will be able to see all conversations he has with anyone else, also try a voice activated recorder in his car, listen to who he is speaking to,
If you do find something is amiss, the next step to breaking up an affair is to expose it, affair thrive in secrecy, the best way to bust it up is to get some good old fashioned reality into the situation, if everyone important to him knows what he is up to won't be much fun for him anymore, expose the OW's family as well, get some people watching from both ends, your husband will be mad but so what your marriage can survive him being mad not him having an affair.
He will have to chose this woman or you, I would also tell your children.........
I remember when my husband first started his affair, he would tell me stories about work and guess what her name always came up, he was texting her and facebooking her as well, don't be fooled like I was..........
stay quiet for now, get your proof, then confront him and expose the affair..........
just keep telling him you are doing what you have to save your marriage........
Thanks jessi but I don't feel there is anything continuing between them. I am as certain as I can be that there has been no further contact.
OH is pulling away. He is struggling with his family issues. I know he feels all mixed up inside. He doesn't want to leave but I think he sees in front of him years of struggling and is not sure how he is going to cope with it. I think he compares our situation with his two close friends, both of whom are married, not had kids yet, so have relative freedom and a much more stress-free life. I said it's not comparing like-for-like, our lives are inherently more complicated. One friend said the other day they were happy in their relationship 80% of the time and 20% not. OH said we were the other way around.
The thing with OH, is that still he sees the relationship as clouded by arguments and THEY are what make things not good. He doesn't seem to totally grasp that the arguments are caused by issues and working on the issues will mean there is no need for these arguments. Sounds so basic *shrugs* I pointed out that as one of my issues had been my need for affection, the fact that he was being more affectionate meant we wouldn't be arguing about that which would mean huge changes just from that.
I have been trying to plan a holiday for just me and him. For a few years he has had the same holiday with close friends, and I felt after what has happened recently, prioritising a holiday for us would be very valuable. He said today he might leave it for this year because he's worried the baby is too young to leave (he'll be just turned one.) OH has always since I've known him been on this holiday every year- he even went when I was pregnant with our now toddler without me, and we went last year a couple of weeks before the baby was due.
I understand because I was concerned but felt I could bite the bullet and leave baby because I felt it would be a positive experience for us. However, my mind is working overtime- I HEAR what he is saying about how young baby is, but my mind is ticking because it is so unusual for him to not want to go. I am wondering if there is another reason, ie he doesn't want to commit to a holiday as he doesn't know what will be going on with US in a few months...
Eek... Just having logged onto the computer, I noticed in the history, OH has been looking at his privacy settings on FB. We were talking the other day about how I had blocked "that" girl on his account, he was asking about the difference between deleting someone and blocking them, what happened etc. It doesn't appear he's done anything but of course my mind is racing over why he'd be looking into it.
The other thing is I noticed he was looking on a house moving website. Now, we both aren't 100% happy with the house we are living in but again, my mind is racing over why he would be looking at these things and not mentioning them.
Eek... Just having logged onto the computer, I noticed in the history, OH has been looking at his privacy settings on FB. We were talking the other day about how I had blocked "that" girl on his account, he was asking about the difference between deleting someone and blocking them, what happened etc. It doesn't appear he's done anything but of course my mind is racing over why he'd be looking into it.
The other thing is I noticed he was looking on a house moving website. Now, we both aren't 100% happy with the house we are living in but again, my mind is racing over why he would be looking at these things and not mentioning them.
Going to give him a call and ask.
Tabio I think the fact that he is not communicating freely with you is telling. I hate to say it but I think he may be checking out of the relationship. I think you should be prepared.
There is nothing you can do to hold a person to you. You can't talk them into staying reason with them the more you try the more they retreat. From what you say it sounds like he is pulling away. Don't look at what he says but his behavior and what he does not say.
I think your intuition is telling you something is wrong and it is hard. He does not appear to be giving 100% to the relationship and he may be waiting for a good reason to leave. He may be open to meeting someone or even looking for someone. Especially if he feels he is bound and his friends are free.
It is hard but, I think the best thing to do is to completely let go. Don't check up on him, don't ask anything about how he feels, don't expect anything from him, appreciate what he does but no more than that.
Make sure that you have all of your financial eggs in a basket. You can consult with a solicitor about what your legal rights are for child support and living expenses. Start planing your next move as it may be with out him.
Pulling away wont doom the relationship if there is anything left to save but the constant surveillance is mentally exhausting to you and will not do any good.
How about backing way way off, and take care of your self.
An affair isn't a bad choice made when a married person decides to sleep with someone that they aren't married to.
It's a bad choice made when they decide to do something inappropriate (flirting, texting, chatting online, phone calls, lunch, drinks, whatever) with someone that's not their spouse. This leads to a string of self-rewarding behavior that can eventually lead to a PA.
He might not have initiated the flirting, however he certainly participated on an inappropriate level for a married man, and you should draw a clear line in the sand. It's likely that this is now an EA, and you have your work cut out for you.
I think I'm going to reply to your posts here and your posts in Coping with Infidelity on this thread (for continuity), but I wanted you to know that a) I'm working on it and b) the ways that your husband feels are actually pretty normal and although you may not grasp what he's saying, I can see that he really is trying to communicate with you both what is causing the problem for him and what it was about the OW that caught his attention. Sadly I think part of what's happening is that he is so focused on "what's hurting him" that he's not thinking about the hurt he's caused you...and when I say "he's not thinking..." what I mean is that he is well aware of it but that his Shame-0-Meter goes through the roof so he doesn't LET himself think much about it. At the same time, you are so hurt and trying to deal with it and heal that you do not hear HIM and what he is trying to communicate with you.
Re: He kissed another woman... 
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