Just a quick note: I wanted to let you know that I'm starting at the beginning and then I have a few things I'd like to share. It may take a moment to catch up though, so just thought I'd let you know I'm working on it!
Wow you are doing all the right things. Please don't be discouraged if you have wide mood swings and erratic behavior from your husband. Keep you wits about you and select the most sensible of your friends to lean on. Let her/ him know that you may be calling frequently and will be emotional.
Something about you shines through your posts, I think you are much loved by your husband but he missed you and may have become angry for what ever reason. This is not to say that you should give him cheap forgiveness, he must atone and he must own his part in the decent of the relationship as you seem prepared to do. Although he loves you he may not act loving but set boundaries and demand respect. He is that one who destabilized the relationship not you. Trust nothing chichi and recheck. Be prepared that he may still be contacting her it takes the cheater a while to come out of the fantasy. Stay resolute don't allow him to have contact with her and your support at the same time.
I was thinking that it maybe is not a good idea to throw him out if he if he is still contacting her. Take that up with Affaircare you may want to keep him close to observe and for connivence for child care help, around the house etc. However, he can stay on the couch. stay strong there are trying days ahead but you will make it to the other end better than ever, if that is possible. )) Posted via Mobile Device
I have been checking and there is no evidence of any further contact between them. There are a couple of things I don't know atm: if he has worked "there" again since Monday (I think he said he wasn't on Tuesday but I don't know about yesterday or today), and his battered old phone he takes to work, if he may have used that to contact her. There was nothing to show he had when I checked on Tuesday, my understanding is that he only had her number in his new phone and I deleted it from there, couldn't see it saved in his old phone.
I can only assume she wrote her number down and gave it him, so I have no idea what has happened to that.
It's little things like this that spring to mind and bother me. I also saw the website we used to look at engagement rings in the browser history and I felt so angry that he was talking about getting me a ring whilst lusting after her. I just keep wondering, what was he thinking? How much has he messed things up by "only" kissing her? I keep wondering how he went from basically begging my forgiveness on Sunday right after he told me to two days later wanting to leave? I wonder if he was contemplating if I threw him out, what it would be like, and he wanted to "get in there" first... It is obvious he hated not being in control of the situation and I wonder if this came about because of that, he wanted to have some power, maybe his wish to leave wasn't as strong as he made out and it was a considered reaction to regain some control? I don't know.
The other thing that is bothering me... One of the first things I said about how he could make me feel better was to call me from work... He hasn't done that ALL WEEK... I know he gets busy but he's not so busy that he can't call my parents, or sent texts (a couple on Tuesday, in response to me texting him about some money stuff.)
However in other ways he is trying... I have noticed little touches, like when he got in yesterday and my parents were here, walking past me in the kitchen, touched my hip and mouthed, "you ok?" He responds to my touches when we're snuggled up in bed, a hand over my hand, holding my hand, stuff like that. I would like more but I think my mistake in the past has been to almost dismiss little things like that because he hasn't gone the whole hog. I am noticing them and appreciating them, which is why I am reluctant to ask for more right now- I don't want to belittle the efforts he is making. I am thinking rather lots of positive reinforcement when he DOES do stuff might be the way to go?
Just so you know, I'm usually write really long replies because I have a lot to say, and I'm going to do my best to keep this to several, shorter replies rather than one, great-big, long one.
One of the biggest things that strikes me after reading your story is that it doesn't seem like you understand quite how affairs start or "what happens." Now, obviously each affair is a little different and has it's own unique twists and turns...yet after you've been here a while or worked with infidelity a while, I bet you'd start to see that almost all affairs follow a certain script and have many similarities. Thus, I would refer you to an article on the site How Do Most Affairs Start?
The reason suggest that article is because it's relevant. Just so you know, I define infidelity as "giving anything less than 100% of your affection and loyalty to your own spouse...to whom it is due." By this definition, it would seem that your H did begin slipping down that slippery slope and began to give away is affection and loyalty to this OW (Other Woman). It sounds like there were some Love Extinguishers on both sides--and while he was at work, the interest, admiration and appreciation from this OW "caught his attention." It sounds like he was aware they were flirting (his word) and enjoyed the attention so he didn't stop it and figured it would be over Friday...that's that. But a part of him stepped over the line, and to his credit, he didn't lie to your face and rewrite all of your marital history in order to justify continuing the flirting--instead he CAME TO YOU and told you about it.
I know it may not "feel" like it right now but that actually shows an ENORMOUS amount of character! I guarantee you, there are literally hundreds of people here who would give their right arm if their spouse had come to them and said: "I'm starting to slip up and I don't want to. I already went one step over the line. Can we work on fixing this?" rather than lying to their face, sneaking, hiding, blaming them, saying "you're nuts" or "you're imagining things", hurting the kids, and abandoning the family and marriage for a fantasy. I know this for a FACT!!
What I see that concerns me is that your husband made a mistake--a pretty serious one--and then came to you to say, "We are in trouble. Can we fix this?" and your response, I think, has been to make him move out to his mom's so you can have space, to sort of "punish" him by acting like maybe you won't take him back, and to demand expectation of him like begging you to take him back or being all romantic "to win you back."
The choice is completely up to you--but I would warn you that continuing to act in this way will probably destroy your marriage. One thing that is deeply VITAL after first discovering infidelity is to do nothing until you can get ahold of your emotions a bit and make decisions WITH YOUR HEAD...then ACT based on those purposeful decisions. All too often what people do is freak out, react out of emotion, engage in more Love Extinguishers, and then when their DS (Disloyal Spouse) is defensive, react out of emotion again. One of the very SMARTEST things you can do is to take some time to gather your wits back, and make clear-headed, calm, rational DECISIONS...and then even if the DS is defensive or emotional, you ACT based on the choices you've made not on "how you feel."
.... I'll write more on what to do if you've made the conscious CHOICE and DECISION to try to fix the marriage a little later. For now, how about if you digest that and read those linked pages, making sure to focus on your side of things, not what "he" did. Okay? Also if you have questions about how affairs start and Love Extinguishers, please ask away!
I came to read this after having a MASSIVE argument with OH. We went from having some very positive conversation earlier about how we can think about moving forward, to him nearly driving us into the back of a lorry. Seriously- he scared me, he was SO angry. Angry because he mentioned the girl in question wasn't around, had gone back to her home town for a visit- he'd told me he had to pop into the site where she'd been to pick up some materials but she wasn't there. I thought about it and thought "hey- how did he know that? Did he talk to her this week for her to tell him?" And asked him- cue a HORRIBLE argument, he's sick of me asking him questions, feeling like he's being watched and checked up on, and why can't I just believe what he is sayiing?
Well of COURSE I can't believe him. He is having trouble grasping this- he thinks he says something, therefore I should trust what he is saying. Now it is ME with the problem he thinks.
The thing is, I think for the most part, he IS telling the truth. He answers, I think, ok, I can believe that. But for him, the trouble is the fact I had to ask.
And so I read your post Affaircare and it came at the right time. Because despite me feeling SO FRUSTRATED at how he could do what he did, and how he doesn't understand why I don't trust him, you are right. I am driving him away. He has been trying, and I have glossed over his efforts, somehow, whilst trying NOT to do that very thing.
Ironically THIS is my part in how we got to this situation. In his words, he felt like he was doing everything he could for the family, yet what he did was never enough. He never truly felt I appreciated what he does. I DO- I never didn't- but my constant demands for MORE were what he heard over the words of appreciation.
So as you said, he meets a hot girl at work, who thinks he's handsome, she flirts, makes him feel good about himself... He messes up, feels guilty, confesses, I react like I did, and instead of coming together to work it out, I PUSH HIM AWAY AND MAKE HIM FEEL BAD FOR TELLING ME. He gets sent off and ONLY THEN starts to think, hang on, what *would* it be like on my own? He has said he didn't have any intention of wanting to move out but felt like it might be his only option so started to seriously think about it. Eek.
I WANT to fix this. I just don't know how. We are booked in for counselling which is a start. There is one issue in particular that having talked about it earlier, is going to actually be very difficult to resolve- his role as stepdad. He is finding it extremely hard and draining, holds a LOT of resentment over the fact that I had kids before we met- it's complicated- he loves the stepkids, he doesn't resent THEM, he just feels sad and torn and confused a lot of the time. For him that's the biggie. For me it's the lack of affection and the constant fight over him doing his share of getting up with the kids at the weekend. I think my issues can be more easily worked on, I feel a lot more prepared to meet him halfway with the very fact he has shown over the last few days that even if it is hard for him to initiate affection, he will respond to me more because he knows I need that, especially now. His are a lot deeper and serious I think.
One thing- he keeps saying *I* don't need to change. It's not me that's the problem. It's him. But I *know* that's not true- and I only just realise I have MADE him think that. I feel truly awful- he says his problems aren't because of ME, I am lovely the way I am (I don't feel lovely, or beautiful like he said earlier- I feel like a second-rate comparison at the mo.) I made him feel like he just wasn't good enough.
Hi, AF, the difference in Tobio's case is that her husband left to his Mom's house on his own. The other difference is that she's been pulling the bulk of the weight at home with little ones and has been trying to get her husband to do more even prior to this blip on the radar.
The reason I feels this makes a difference is because Tobio has been trying to set boundaries but her husband refuses to abide by them as well as steps across other boundaries.
I get what you're saying and I know it makes sense but what if Tobio's not getting what she needs from the relationship prior and even more so now? I feel like she's not really in any type of bargaining position because her husband doesn't seem to show that he cares at all what she is going through.
I know I'm all about fair generally and so this bothers me. He crosses boundaries, isn't the best husband or father, starts on a slope towards an affair, leaves carefree to his Mom's house, threatens to leave for good, then comes back.
This is not negative emotional manipulation? It seems like it to me.
I hope AC can correct some of the stridency this thread produced.
After all, she is in the pantheon.
Do you think we're too loudly supportive of Tobio's perspective?
I wonder often, MNG, he gets full support and his wife is considered villainousness. Do you think it's a double standard or that women have more to lose and so should be more docile in their approach at reconciliation?
I've had relationships where women have insisted they want "total honesty and openness"
What do you think happens when they get it?
Has the advice here increased the chance Tobio gets honesty in the future?
I getcha.
My problem lay/lies in WHEN the honesty SHOULD have come. IMO it was when he realised he had feelings for her. He knew that before the kiss. Had I known that then, then maybe we could have started to deal with the depth of our problems then. But in withholding this info- even though, like Affaircare said, he thought it was harmless, he'd only see her until Friday- he ended up in a situation that we now have to deal with ON TOP of the existing problems. No, I don't believe he would have done it if things weren't bad anyway. But as well as the original issues, we now have to deal with the mistrust, secrecy, and me dealing with knowing he is capable of that when I trusted him implicitly before.
He is upstairs putting one of the kids to bed. I plan to sit him down and apologise for how I have treated him. It will be hard but I think it will only benefit us in the long-run- it certainly can't make things worse that's for sure!
I'll be willing to wager that if you give him an unqualified apology - with no conditions attached - and acknowledge that you have helped make it worse.....
Do you think we're too loudly supportive of Tobio's perspective?
I wonder often, MNG, he gets full support and his wife is considered villainousness. Do you think it's a double standard or that women have more to lose and so should be more docile in their approach at reconciliation?
I think a lot of women are more docile in their approach to issues in a relationship, actual divorce and reconciliation issues.
It can be for a myriad of reasons:
- Financial - the man of the house is the sole breadwinner
- Children - want their children to grow up in a two-parent household
- Shame/Fear - family has never divorced, don't think they can make it on their own
- Education - no higher education or set of skills in which to support themselves and/or children
Lots of reasons that I think women stay in relationships that are intolerable or filled with abuse and cruelty.
Do you think we're too loudly supportive of Tobio's perspective?
I wonder often, MNG, he gets full support and his wife is considered villainousness. Do you think it's a double standard or that women have more to lose and so should be more docile in their approach at reconciliation?
This is a great question.
I think MNG was/is likely to get honesty in a different way than Tobio was/is.
I think it relates to our fundamental gender differences.
We often start lying to protect. It's a mistake, but if the "reward" for being honest is nagging and endless recrimination?
It may look like a double standard on the surface, but I think it's about effectiveness.
Re: He kissed another woman... 
))
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