I've been trying to understand some things in my one life. One of them being I suspect I've been in a controlling relationship and unable to admit it. I've read a number of articles, but these two struck a chord with me personally:
I am wondering what you guys think of this topic and particularly if you've got any examples in your own lives that you could share. (I guess the ladies can chime in here as well.)
I've been trying to understand some things in my one life. One of them being I suspect I've been in a controlling relationship and unable to admit it. I've read a number of articles, but these two struck a chord with me personally:
Thanks for the input (hopefully some more guys will chime in). She refuses to acknowledge she's abusive and controlling in any way. She feels justified in everything she does.
I also posted on a separate forum about borderline personality disorder, which upon examination of our relationship and all her other interpersonal relationships, I strongly believe she has. I'm just trying to hang in there.
Naturally I am not controlling -- that's my answer and I'm sticking to it!
Speaking as someone who's been involved with helping people recover from infidelity for about a decade, it's my observation that actually this is VERY common and pretty much an unrecognized issue here in the USA. We have been so conditioned from the Domestic Violence Against Women kind of legislation to believe that it is MEN perpetrating on WOMEN, but it's my observation that abuse is abuse and it's pretty equal. For example, it is frequently a couple arguing, the wife stands up and hits the husband...he puts up his hands to block her assault...but if he were to call the police right there, it's likely that HE would be hauled off to jail or at minimum asked to leave the premises.
There are Domestic Violence shelters "for women and children" in almost every county across the USA, and yet it is a VERY RARE thing to find a men's shelter.
And I'm not saying that men don't physically abuse women or that those shelters aren't needed...just that there is a whole support network out there for women but for men, there's NOTHING! Furthermore, a lot of men don't even realize or admit it to themselves, much less reaching out for help--so lots of men never even have the idea "Hey maybe my wife is being abusive here."
SoCalKat, thank you so much for posting this! I personally consider it a large step in your personal journey that you're able to identify this and face it, and I'm proud of you!
In my case it's strictly emotional and verbal abuse...using emotions to control me, invading my space and violating trust under the guise of "love" and "trust." I've been in denial for many years, mostly because my father pulled this stuff with my mother to a certain extent and I was always brought up to believe that the man was responsible...that women just "nagged" and that's it. I see now it's more than that.
Yep. And women are taught about emotional abuse, there are sites about verbal abuse, and the cycle of violence and everything. What is pretty rare is finding that same sort of support and information for men. Dr. Irene's site is actually a pretty good example--I love that site and send people there often but women go to the "Signs of Verbal Abuse" page and think "Oh my husband ridicules or insults me then says its a joke, or that I have no sense of humor" "My husband humiliates me privately or in public" and it never even DAWNS on them to read the list of Signs and ask "Do I do this? Is it describing me?" Because if it's verbal abuse when the male married spouse does it....it's verbal abuse when the FEMALE married spouse does it too!
Just for fun, here's the list. Does your wife:
ignore your feelings?
disrespect you?
ridicule or insult you then tell you its a joke, or that you have no sense of humor?
ridicule your beliefs, religion, race, heritage or class?
withhold approval, appreciation or affection?
give you the silent treatment?
walk away without answering you?
criticize you, call you names, yell at you?
humiliate you privately or in public?
roll her eyes when you talk?
give you a hard time about socializing with your friends or family?
make you socialize (and keep up appearances) even when you don't feel well?
seem to make sure that what you really want is exactly what you won't get?
tell you you are too sensitive?
hurt you especially when you are down?
seem energized by fighting, while fighting exhausts you?
have unpredictable mood swings, alternating from good to bad for no apparent reason?
present a wonderful face to the world and is well liked by outsiders?
"twist" your words, somehow turning what you said against you?
try to control decisions, money, even the way you style your hair or clothes you wear?
complain about how badly you treat her?
threaten to leave, or threaten to throw you out?
say things that make you feel good, but do things that make you feel bad?
ever left you stranded?
ever threaten to hurt you or your family?
ever hit or pushed you, even "accidentally"?
seem to stir up trouble just when you seem to be getting closer to each other?
abuse something you love: a pet, a child, an object?
compliment you enough to keep you happy, yet criticize you enough to keep you insecure?
promise to never do something hurtful again?
harass you about imagined affairs?
manipulate you with lies and contradictions?
smash things, throw china, or kick furniture?
drive like a road-rage junkie?
act immature and selfish, yet accuse you of those behaviors?
question your every move and motive, somehow questioning your competence?
interrupt you; hear but not really listen?
make you feel like you can't win? damned if you do, damned if you don't?
use drugs and/or alcohol involved? are things worse then?
incite you to rage, which is "proof" that you are to blame?
try to convince you he or she is "right," while you are "wrong?"
frequently say things that are later denied or accuse you of misunderstanding?
treat you like a sex object, or as though sex should be provided on demand regardless of how you feel?
Your situation is critical if the following applies to you:
You express your opinions less and less freely.
You find yourself walking on eggshells, careful of when and how to say something.
You long for that softer, more vulnerable part of your partner to emerge.
You find yourself making excuses for your partner's behavior?
You feel emotionally unsafe.
You feel its somehow not OK to talk with others about your relationship.
You hope things will change...especially through your love and understanding.
You find yourself doubting your memory or sense of reality.
SoCalKat, Shrink for Men is junk. It's a woman shrink playing off of men to gain accolades. I actually wrote a comment on one of her posts about Borderline women and she never approved it or wrote me back
Why?--Because she is the Queen of Borderline Science.
There is extreme BPD and if this is the case it's very obvious because your spouse will use things like cutting, bulimia, threats of suicide and extreme push/pull behaviors. You will feel like she is literally shouting at you, "I love you! I hate you! Please don't leave me!!"
Now if your wife is like this then she obviously needs serious help for her own safety and you do need to find a way to get yourself help as well and consider leaving the relationship to protect your own sanity.
I was diagnosed with BPD at 17. I've returned to looking at the possibility recently but when going through the diagnosis it's a tough fit for me although some of the aspects fit. Yes I'm moody, struggle with childhood issues, sometimes impulsive and I am very intense. No I'm not suicidal (don't have any self harming issues), am capable of seeing another person's side and valuing it, provide stability for my children, have long lasting friendships and have only been with my husband for a total of almost 17 years.
My advice to you is that if your relationship is at a very low point, it is easy to look for diagnosis as a way to understand what dynamics are in place for the cause of your (and her) misery. It may not be ultra helpful in actually solving the crisis within your marriage though.
Give us clear examples and reasoning as to why you think your wife behaves the way she does. How do you respond? Is there a clear cause and effect? What behaviors do you/she have that seem to set things off? Did she face childhood trauma? Did you? Can she understand your side of things? If she doesn't, do you communicate clearly your needs/thoughts/feelings?
It's far more helpful to look at the details of your relationship and the reality of what is actually going on than it is to slap labels on everyone and feel like a victim.
I was diagnosed with BPD at 17. I've returned to looking at the possibility recently but when going through the diagnosis it's a tough fit for me although some of the aspects fit. Yes I'm moody, struggle with childhood issues, sometimes impulsive and I am very intense. No I'm not suicidal (don't have any self harming issues), am capable of seeing another person's side and valuing it, provide stability for my children, have long lasting friendships and have only been with my husband for a total of almost 17 years.
My advice to you is that if your relationship is at a very low point, it is easy to look for diagnosis as a way to understand what dynamics are in place for the cause of your (and her) misery. It may not be ultra helpful in actually solving the crisis within your marriage though.
Give us clear examples and reasoning as to why you think your wife behaves the way she does. How do you respond? Is there a clear cause and effect? What behaviors do you/she have that seem to set things off? Did she face childhood trauma? Did you? Can she understand your side of things? If she doesn't, do you communicate clearly your needs/thoughts/feelings?
It's far more helpful to look at the details of your relationship and the reality of what is actually going on than it is to slap labels on everyone and feel like a victim.
This is all good advice. Please read it two or three times before running through an amateur psychology checklist and concluding that things are f*cked.
I really don't like that last bit about "critical" emotional abuse. I feel like every... single... relationship... has "eggshells" issues. Now, an MC said to us that there are relationships without any conflict at all, but they tend to be "friends" relationships with people sleeping in separate rooms etc.
One problem with seeing control, even when it is there, is that you see it everywhere. Back off, find a way around that control without confronting it head-on. It's better to "take" time, than to say "I feel controlled" and then turn on the "180"... which is a pleasant term for "silent treatment", itself controlling and abusive.
1) Acceptance
Accept that your wife is never going to change her abusive behaviour. It’s how she gets what she wants out of life, it works for her and she’s never going to change. Do not try and understand why she behaves like she does and do not try and change her. If you do these two things you will become a codependent, a rescuer. A rescuer is a person who tries to change a person with a “victim personality”. People like alcoholics, drug addicts etc.
2) List The Abusive Behaviour
Do not “label” your wife with terms like BPD, NPD, APD etc. These are categories used by psychologists and are generic, in that they are not specific. So just list the specific behaviour that you consider to be abusive.
3) Create Your Personal Boundaries
Create a Personal Boundary for each of the behaviours you consider to be abusive. These are boundaries of INTOLERANCE. People who are overly patient and tolerant, empathetic and compassionate make the very best codependents! See Boundaries for Men
4) Declare Your Boundaries
The next time your wife behaves in one of her abusive ways say “I do not tolerate that behaviour”. This is your shield, your protection from her abusive behaviour. It has a few effects. First off it’s stops the abuse getting inside of you and affecting your emotions. Secondly it will make you feel mentally and emotionally strong. Thirdly it reflects the abusive back to your wife.
5) In Time
Things happen very quickly. First thing is you will feel very good and very in control of yourself, especially your emotions. You will feel like a different man. Secondly your wife will see a very different person. Instead of being a person she can manipulate at her will she will see a person not to be messed with. This is a bit like standing up to the “school bully”. But. You may have to calmly repeat your boundaries a few times before your wife gets the message.
6) Respect for your Boundaries
If your wife trashes your boundaries, if she repeatedly and persistently crashes right through them then you know for certain that she wants to abuse you and very much like an alcoholic cannot say no to that next drink, in this case that next abuse. So it will be pathological, she is unable to control her abusive behaviour for whatever reason. The reason doesn’t matter, the fact that she cannot control it or wants to carry on abusing does.
On the other hand. Your wife may become introspective and see the damage she is causing to you and your marriage. If this happens then she may ask for and seek help to drop her abusive behaviour. If this happens, then only at this time should you offer to help her in one form or another. She will probably need help from a coach or a psychologist.
Amazing, here I am blaming myself for not trying hard enough, dealing with missing my wife and trying to figure out why she is so desperate to end this marriage so fast? She drafted a property settlement agreement 2 weeks after we separated, and for the record I didn't want to leave, but I made myself for the sake of sanity, hers and mine.
After begging and pleading, I accepted where we are, and that we'll probably never reconcile.
Whenever we talk, she's in a bad mood, like I should apologize for still being in love with her. Presses the property settlement agreement and DEMANDS I tell her the reason I'm not ready to sign. Somehow, "I'm just not ready" is no excuse. She even interacted with my mother behind my back and convinced her it was a good idea we get divorced. My mother is a control freak too, but she's a legend at it, and isn't changing, and doesn't see how inappropriate it was to interact with my wife behind my back.
I still love her, I truly do, I've never had the kind of connection with anyone as I had with her. But she changed, it was Jeckle and Hyde.
Now I have my problems too, but this is a 2 way street. I made some mistakes in our relationship, but she never took a look at herself ONCE. I was willing to try counseling, but she said "I would, but I KNOW nothing will change".
She wanted to control everything in our relationship, and I let her, and suddenly she cannot make up her mind whether she was EVER in love with me or not. Now she's saying she was in love with me, but isn't anymore because something is broken because of my emotional reaction to her. She constantly tries to get me to justify her feelings, tells me she "doesn't want to hurt me anymore, and I should just give up." When I apologize for my emotional outbursts, she says "well I hurt you, so I understand". But whenever I won't give her the reaction she wants, she throws things in my face like they just happened this morning, and we have NO CHANCE of reconciliation because of how I acted.
What's hilarious is that I know she truly is a good person who does care about people, but when I go through that list above I have to answer almost all of those questions with a YES.
I'm even scared to bring up her controlling nature to her, because the backlash is just hateful, and she is still trying hold onto anger about not getting what she wanted. We are separated, and I miss her and her daughter so much and I truly want to work things out, and I'm dealing with my anger and my own control issues, but IS THERE ANY HOPE? Can I bring this up to her without making things worse, for what it's worth, she's looking anybody she can find who agrees with her decision, and since she reached out to MY SUPPORT GROUP to help her feel better about her decisions, that tells me she's having trouble finding agreeable people in her own support group.
It's as if we're married to same (type of) woman...creepy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanttobehappy56
Amazing, here I am blaming myself for not trying hard enough, dealing with missing my wife and trying to figure out why she is so desperate to end this marriage so fast? She drafted a property settlement agreement 2 weeks after we separated, and for the record I didn't want to leave, but I made myself for the sake of sanity, hers and mine.
After begging and pleading, I accepted where we are, and that we'll probably never reconcile.
I'm that woman. I did (do) all of those "bullying/controlling" things. Not proud of if, lost my husband over it (He cheated, lied, etc.) but I feel I drove him to it. I do not know WHY I am this way. It could be that my father is very much this way, or that I am terrified of getting "close" based on my past. I have no clue, but am self aware, and will get help soon for myself, and any other poor guy that may "take a chance on me" someday. I desire to change. I want to be a man's friend, lover, and confidante'. Not someone to be dreaded, feared, and ultimately left.
Controlling Behavior/Relationship 
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