Tobio, I know you are under much stress now and you are sacrificing for your children. Keep working on yourself, get out and work take courses anything that keeps you out and talking to normal people.
Living with someone who tries to control your thoughts makes it difficult to keep your hold on reality. You need to stay in contact with the outside world as much as possible.
Don't forget what you discovered here. If you need to bury it now for expediency and survival, that's good. But don't forget. Protect your heart and plan carefully, the time will be right one day.
Therapy will probably be more of the same as you have read here, no different, unless he pretends to go along. It will most likely not touch his heart. You know him now, you see what he is.
I think you are a wonderful person, it comes through so much in your post and I hope the love you get is 100X what you give. It can be so, you just have to act fearlessly to claim your legacy. It waits for you. The very best to you.
Some of you ladies are going to get a massive amount of egg on your face. Believe me I know. It will be interesting to see if you have the balls to apologise.
Some of you ladies are going to get a massive amount of egg on your face. Believe me I know. It will be interesting to see if you have the balls to apologise.
Bob
How do you know for sure? Have you been convinced of something by someone.
How do you know for sure? Have you been convinced of something by someone.
You mean Catherine that you don’t have “PROOF” that Tobio is being prevented from posting? And that your posts are based totally on your imagination and conjecture? That you are flaming her OH without any proof whatsoever?
If that is the case it’s quite unbelievable. I did give you a heads up a few pages back and still you carried on.
And if it’s true you don’t have proof, there was a lot in what ClipClop was saying.
What would a person have to be to make up an online identity to try to talk strangers into validating their actions?
While CC is a touch suspicious, it is hardly a forgone conclusion that s/he is Mr Tobio.
Quote:
Why would a person expend the energy to argue with people who don't really matter about something so vital and serious?
Who is the audience, Tobio? She can't write because he has locked that down as the price of his august presence in her life, but she can read. Someone checks in every day.
Wow you have no real way to know if this is what has happened.Are you so emotionally invested here that you are becoming delusional? Or are we still in conjecture land, where we belong?
I don't get what the problem was. Aside from some of us escalating an argument with CC which, IMO, was warranted, given what was being asked of tobio and what seems to have happened to tobio, and how CC was choosing illogical arguments. If CC isn't MrTobio, fine. He/she won't be the first person accused of being a troll or imposter. Frankly, I thought he/she was funny; if you can't get involved in such a discussion without going bananas, you should just walk away. JMHO
You know what's funny? I actually dreamed about this thread the other night. Know why? Because it has taken such a funky turn and not for the better I'm afraid.
There are two major things I've learned working here on this forum for more than a year: 1) What you hear from a poster is usually about half of the story. Rarely if ever take everything that's written 100% at face value because as human beings we tend to minimize our own part -- like the disloyal who tells the family she's leaving her husband because he screamed at her for three hours straight, but just "forgets" to mention that it was because she just told him she had slept with another man. 2) Stick with the facts only. Don't intuit, don't think that what's happening "to them" is what happened to you, and don't jump to conclusions--gather more data. Ask more questions. Deal with the facts that you have and don't make assumptions. Here's why. Looking at the same disloyal above, she could come on the site and say "My husband just screamed at me for three hours! Is that abuse?" Now...we don't know what is occuring, what lead to that event, why anyone did what they did. Without digging for more facts, one might easily say "Oh yes, being screamed at for three hours is verbal abuse. Leave that man!" and we just told a disloyal it was okay to leave her spouse without knowing what we're doing!
In this case, here are the facts (as told by Tobio):
Tobio and her SO are NOT married (this was a fact that I myself did miss). If you research Tobio's name you'd see that she actually talked about this in Nov. 2010 and at that time her SO was not too hot to get married.
Tobio has two children from a previous relationship.
Tobio and her SO have 2 children together, one is an infant now.
SO flirted with and subsequently kissed a girl associated with work.
He did realize that crossed a line and told her about it.
He moved out for a brief time and they reconciled.
After they moved back together, he gave OW some candy.
Tobio felt hurt and angry about "the kiss" but did not reveal the "true her" to him...the real hurt and mourning (her words) or the anger... so that is lack of transparency.
Tobio seemed to think that Conrad was onto something when he talked about SO having issues being STEP-dad (discipling, parenting styles, being naughty, etc.).
OW texted SO "thanks" for the candies and again, he told her. SO found the thread.
Tobio continues to obsess about the OW but doesn't share it, and what she does share, SO avoids.
SO also will not take responsibility for acting in an unfaithful way.
OW sent a message to Tobio on FB that nothing happened.
SO started pulling away about 4/12 and 4/17 he decided he's leaving, saying she had kids and he can't deal wih that.
On 4/18 Tobio discovers he has been texting OW. He has moved out.
SO has spent significant time with his children.
They did go to initial counseling.
Tobio has not replied on any thread since 4/30 but someone (we don't know who) has logged into Tobio's name and checked on the site pretty much every day.
What I'm about to say is probably not going to be very popular, but Tobio and her SO are not married. When a person gets married, they volunteer to take on certain responsibilities and a covenant is formed that is formal and binding, legally and spiritually. When that commitment is in place, they have both made promises in front of God and family to forsake all others--and at that point each one is due 100% of the affection and loyalty of their spouse. As much as she may want that commitment to be there, and as much as they are "living together" or sharing expenses, the fact remains that they are not married. When a person makes babies with another person, the responsibility is to the child, not necessarily to the other parent unless the parents are married. Furthermore, as an adult Tobio is choosing to live with and make babies with a person who has clearly demonstrated by word and deed that he is not willing to commit to her for a lifetime. Now I'm not "blaming" anyone here, but part of the issue is that Tobio knew he was not committing to her and still chose to stay and to make babies!
Yes, there is "commonlaw marriage" which is a legal definition used when a couple presents themselves as married, pay taxes as married, have children and joint assets as married...and then choose to separate or "divorce"...but how can they "divorce" if they aren't married? In this case, Tobio had two children from a previous relationship, chose to live with a man who did not want to commit to her and her alone, made two more children with him, and is now saying that the man who didn't commit to her has not been faithful to her. Well...he didn't commit to her! I don't see an obligation to Tobio--legally or spiritually. I see an obligation to the children he made! And from what I can see, he has upheld that obligation since moving out.
Single people are not "obliged" to be faithful or be with only one person or be exclusive or anything...MARRIED people are. If they were married, he'd be treating her inappropriately--as it is, I would say it's not "high moral character" but it's well within his rights. Is it in bad taste to live with one woman and kiss another? SURE! Does it hurt? YES! But the enormous part of the issue here is that TOBIO is an adult. She has known for a while now that if he wanted to marry her, they would be married. Despite knowing that he was unwilling to commit to her and only her, she stayed when she was pregnant with the first child and afterward and when she was pregnant with the second and afterward. That is HER CHOICE to stay with a man who will not commit to her and only her. It was HER CHOICE to stay and live in the illusion that he would marry her one day, they were a family, and they were obliged AS IF they were married. Once they made babies my guess is that Tobio figured they would eventually marry if she just hung out long enough, but that is HER assumption, not him. He was clear--he was not "into" marriage or commitment. It is also the consequence of her choice to now have two children by a man who will not commit to her.
So to Tobio I would say this: The most important advice I would give you is that you do not need to make babies with men in order to have one love you and want to commit himself to you and you alone. You are too valuable to give yourself to someone who is not willing to put everyone else aside for only you. Thus, I'd recommend waiting until someone comes along who says: "I am willing to commit myself, mind body and soul, to you and only you and no one else ever." Then be with THAT guy (whoever that is). Do not put yourself in the position of living with a man and possibly having children together until he is willing to make that kind of legal and spiritual covenant to YOU. Then when you do make children, it is in a place so that the children are safe from heartache because their mom and dad are committed to each other. And dear, don't take this wrong--I did the exact same thing. I had a child and met my first H, and he did not want to get married. He was a flirt and knew that he wasn't "good" at being faithful and I'm not being judgmental--that's just who he was. But I didn't listen and I stayed too and had a baby too. He did eventually marry me but after about four years of me nagging...not out of love or commitment or fidelity. When our marriage exploded, it really HURT the children! So don't fool yourself. If he's "into you" he'll be the one saying, "You're a treasure! I want to marry you!" Also, go back and re-read what I wrote in He kissed another woman... lol
To Tobio's SO (if he were to read here) I would say this: if you love her and are willing to make a commitment to her and her other two kids forever, do the man-up thing and marry her--if you don't, do the man-up thing and let her go. The fact that people made all kinds of assumptions on here and jumped to conclusions...well I'm sorry to say that lots of times people assume that what happened to them is what's happening to everybody. The thing is, when you live with someone and make children with them, the fact is that it's likely the other person will start having expectations, especially when it comes to fidelity. She's the mother of your children--and it doesn't show the best judgment to succumb to temptation, kiss another woman, give another woman gifts, and get drunk and use that as an excuse to text another woman. If you want to be with her, at least admit that making babies with her and then kissing another woman is not cool and it's reasonable for her to not exactly trust you right now. Yeah, maybe you're "not like that" but while you were being "not like that" you kissed someone else, gave someone else a gift, and got drunk enough to contact someone else again. Do the decent thing: either get with her and be honest and be open and let her know everything that is in your heart and mind--or let her go find a man who's willing to give that to her. She's got to stop hiding her feelings and her thoughts from you too...but if you two both make decisions with wisdom and choose to do this, you can make a strong marriage. YOU both need to learn to be personally responsible and be HONEST, facing reality even if it isn't what you want. If it's just an illusion or a lie "to protect the other person" it will never work. You can deal with it, HEAD ON, and create a strong, loving marriage if you face the real live truth.
In English Law a Common Law Relationship does NOT have anything like the protection of a Marriage. No matter how many children or how long the relationship. It is a very COMMON MISPERCEPTION that it does.
I’m not in anyway alluding that may have been Tobio’s thoughts. Just saying that’s all. And of course right now as things are “these days” there are those trying to give common law relationships the same protection and status as a Marriage. I think that’s a madness. Signing that piece of paper and wearing that ring does at the very least greatly “SYMBOLISE” both partner’s “INTENT”. Doesn’t necessarily hold them together in times of trouble, many here to bare witness to that. But it does greatly help when there is TRUE COMMITMENT from both parties by way of Marriage.
Affaircare - elegant and sadly true. Thank's for your clarity. Somehow, your post is a relief, I did become too worried about Tobio. But in the end, the current state of the relationship was largely predictable, based upon the way it began. Posted via Mobile Device
You know what's funny? I actually dreamed about this thread the other night. Know why? Because it has taken such a funky turn and not for the better I'm afraid.
There are two major things I've learned working here on this forum for more than a year: 1) What you hear from a poster is usually about half of the story. Rarely if ever take everything that's written 100% at face value because as human beings we tend to minimize our own part -- like the disloyal who tells the family she's leaving her husband because he screamed at her for three hours straight, but just "forgets" to mention that it was because she just told him she had slept with another man. 2) Stick with the facts only. Don't intuit, don't think that what's happening "to them" is what happened to you, and don't jump to conclusions--gather more data. Ask more questions. Deal with the facts that you have and don't make assumptions. Here's why. Looking at the same disloyal above, she could come on the site and say "My husband just screamed at me for three hours! Is that abuse?" Now...we don't know what is occuring, what lead to that event, why anyone did what they did. Without digging for more facts, one might easily say "Oh yes, being screamed at for three hours is verbal abuse. Leave that man!" and we just told a disloyal it was okay to leave her spouse without knowing what we're doing!
In this case, here are the facts (as told by Tobio):
Tobio and her SO are NOT married (this was a fact that I myself did miss). If you research Tobio's name you'd see that she actually talked about this in Nov. 2010 and at that time her SO was not too hot to get married.
Tobio has two children from a previous relationship.
Tobio and her SO have 2 children together, one is an infant now.
SO flirted with and subsequently kissed a girl associated with work.
He did realize that crossed a line and told her about it.
He moved out for a brief time and they reconciled.
After they moved back together, he gave OW some candy.
Tobio felt hurt and angry about "the kiss" but did not reveal the "true her" to him...the real hurt and mourning (her words) or the anger... so that is lack of transparency.
Tobio seemed to think that Conrad was onto something when he talked about SO having issues being STEP-dad (discipling, parenting styles, being naughty, etc.).
OW texted SO "thanks" for the candies and again, he told her. SO found the thread.
Tobio continues to obsess about the OW but doesn't share it, and what she does share, SO avoids.
SO also will not take responsibility for acting in an unfaithful way.
OW sent a message to Tobio on FB that nothing happened.
SO started pulling away about 4/12 and 4/17 he decided he's leaving, saying she had kids and he can't deal wih that.
On 4/18 Tobio discovers he has been texting OW. He has moved out.
SO has spent significant time with his children.
They did go to initial counseling.
Tobio has not replied on any thread since 4/30 but someone (we don't know who) has logged into Tobio's name and checked on the site pretty much every day.
What I'm about to say is probably not going to be very popular, but Tobio and her SO are not married. When a person gets married, they volunteer to take on certain responsibilities and a covenant is formed that is formal and binding, legally and spiritually. When that commitment is in place, they have both made promises in front of God and family to forsake all others--and at that point each one is due 100% of the affection and loyalty of their spouse. As much as she may want that commitment to be there, and as much as they are "living together" or sharing expenses, the fact remains that they are not married. When a person makes babies with another person, the responsibility is to the child, not necessarily to the other parent unless the parents are married. Furthermore, as an adult Tobio is choosing to live with and make babies with a person who has clearly demonstrated by word and deed that he is not willing to commit to her for a lifetime. Now I'm not "blaming" anyone here, but part of the issue is that Tobio knew he was not committing to her and still chose to stay and to make babies!
Yes, there is "commonlaw marriage" which is a legal definition used when a couple presents themselves as married, pay taxes as married, have children and joint assets as married...and then choose to separate or "divorce"...but how can they "divorce" if they aren't married? In this case, Tobio had two children from a previous relationship, chose to live with a man who did not want to commit to her and her alone, made two more children with him, and is now saying that the man who didn't commit to her has not been faithful to her. Well...he didn't commit to her! I don't see an obligation to Tobio--legally or spiritually. I see an obligation to the children he made! And from what I can see, he has upheld that obligation since moving out.
Single people are not "obliged" to be faithful or be with only one person or be exclusive or anything...MARRIED people are. If they were married, he'd be treating her inappropriately--as it is, I would say it's not "high moral character" but it's well within his rights. Is it in bad taste to live with one woman and kiss another? SURE! Does it hurt? YES! But the enormous part of the issue here is that TOBIO is an adult. She has known for a while now that if he wanted to marry her, they would be married. Despite knowing that he was unwilling to commit to her and only her, she stayed when she was pregnant with the first child and afterward and when she was pregnant with the second and afterward. That is HER CHOICE to stay with a man who will not commit to her and only her. It was HER CHOICE to stay and live in the illusion that he would marry her one day, they were a family, and they were obliged AS IF they were married. Once they made babies my guess is that Tobio figured they would eventually marry if she just hung out long enough, but that is HER assumption, not him. He was clear--he was not "into" marriage or commitment. It is also the consequence of her choice to now have two children by a man who will not commit to her.
So to Tobio I would say this: The most important advice I would give you is that you do not need to make babies with men in order to have one love you and want to commit himself to you and you alone. You are too valuable to give yourself to someone who is not willing to put everyone else aside for only you. Thus, I'd recommend waiting until someone comes along who says: "I am willing to commit myself, mind body and soul, to you and only you and no one else ever." Then be with THAT guy (whoever that is). Do not put yourself in the position of living with a man and possibly having children together until he is willing to make that kind of legal and spiritual covenant to YOU. Then when you do make children, it is in a place so that the children are safe from heartache because their mom and dad are committed to each other. And dear, don't take this wrong--I did the exact same thing. I had a child and met my first H, and he did not want to get married. He was a flirt and knew that he wasn't "good" at being faithful and I'm not being judgmental--that's just who he was. But I didn't listen and I stayed too and had a baby too. He did eventually marry me but after about four years of me nagging...not out of love or commitment or fidelity. When our marriage exploded, it really HURT the children! So don't fool yourself. If he's "into you" he'll be the one saying, "You're a treasure! I want to marry you!" Also, go back and re-read what I wrote in He kissed another woman... lol
To Tobio's SO (if he were to read here) I would say this: if you love her and are willing to make a commitment to her and her other two kids forever, do the man-up thing and marry her--if you don't, do the man-up thing and let her go. The fact that people made all kinds of assumptions on here and jumped to conclusions...well I'm sorry to say that lots of times people assume that what happened to them is what's happening to everybody. The thing is, when you live with someone and make children with them, the fact is that it's likely the other person will start having expectations, especially when it comes to fidelity. She's the mother of your children--and it doesn't show the best judgment to succumb to temptation, kiss another woman, give another woman gifts, and get drunk and use that as an excuse to text another woman. If you want to be with her, at least admit that making babies with her and then kissing another woman is not cool and it's reasonable for her to not exactly trust you right now. Yeah, maybe you're "not like that" but while you were being "not like that" you kissed someone else, gave someone else a gift, and got drunk enough to contact someone else again. Do the decent thing: either get with her and be honest and be open and let her know everything that is in your heart and mind--or let her go find a man who's willing to give that to her. She's got to stop hiding her feelings and her thoughts from you too...but if you two both make decisions with wisdom and choose to do this, you can make a strong marriage. YOU both need to learn to be personally responsible and be HONEST, facing reality even if it isn't what you want. If it's just an illusion or a lie "to protect the other person" it will never work. You can deal with it, HEAD ON, and create a strong, loving marriage if you face the real live truth.
I have an insane amount of respect for your logic and the time it took to do this. Just simply helping out this much is a truly commendable feat.
Anyway this is a case of IMO judging from this end not enough concise communication from the getgo.
I see confusion and priorities that are out of whack.
I hope that the OP is well with whatever path she decided to take.
On a side note being I'm new here: Let me compliment some of the sweet women on here for being compassionate and loving. I also love the "Hug and Love" signature.
Re: He's leaving 
lol
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at 
