I think both genders objectify. I think women do it when sizing up dating/marriage material and it often ends there, while men do it their entire lives, regardless of relationship status.
This is where you lost me. My experience has not matched this, that women stop objectifying after a ring is on their finger.
I shudder to think of the scenario in which your son meets 'the girl of his dreams', and she dumps him because of his sense of virtue to go do some tongue wrestling, or bumping of uglies with your average teen/twenty-something guy.
He already found the girl of his dreams, has been waiting for her to release him from the "Friend Zone" for over a year & a half now. He did let her know how he felt, and she didnt push him away.
She is as PURE as the driven snow, no chance of this one taking up with some secular dude - He'd throw her back. It is all very sweet really. She IS getting closer to him, wants him to teach her guitar now, they sing together, just did a play together, they run together. I am even beginning to see hope there. He is head over heels, but reigns his feelings in to not scare her away. They both believe in being "friends 1st."
I might be attenting a pure Virginish wedding someday-with them both exchanging thier "silver rings". How rare it is.
Isn't lusting after women/catagorizing/etc.the pure definition of objectify? I get biology, I also get that it is behavior for both young and old. Let's not kid ourselves though, it is still objectification in it's purest form. Sizing up a woman for her sexual merits is literally the definition of sexual objectification, yet so many men deny this. It sounds like you feel the two are separate. "Feeling what they should be feeling" vs. "believe they objectify". Isn't it one and the same?
I think both genders objectify. I think women do it when sizing up dating/marriage material and it often ends there, while men do it their entire lives, regardless of relationship status.
If you want to categorize attraction or it's lack as objectification, I don't suppose I can argue with you.
But I do not see them as the same. I don't even see the checklist as objectifying. It's passive ... as I have tried to stress.
To me, thereby if a man acknowledges it and internally admonishes himself for the passive thought ... he has made it an active thought, and given it more attention than it warranted.
Am I understanding you correctly, Brennan? It appears you see this as a form of betrayal?
He already found the girl of his dreams, has been waiting for her to release him from the "Friend Zone" for over a year & a half now. He did let her know how he felt, and she didnt push him away.
She is as PURE as the driven snow, no chance of this one taking up with some secular dude - He'd throw her back. It is all very sweet really. She IS getting closer to him, wants him to teach her guitar now, they sing together, just did a play together, they run together. I am even beginning to see hope there. He is head over heels, but reigns his feelings in to not scare her away. They both believe in being "friends 1st."
I might be attenting a pure Virginish wedding someday-with them both exchanging thier "silver rings". How rare it is.
I may be old and cynical, but I'm still a sucker for a happy ending. Hope for nothing but good things for the both of them.
If you want to categorize attraction or it's lack as objectification, I don't suppose I can argue with you.
But I do not see them as the same. I don't even see the checklist as objectifying. It's passive ... as I have tried to stress.
To me, thereby if a man acknowledges it and internally admonishes himself for the passive thought ... he has made it an active thought, and given it more attention than it warranted.
Am I understanding you correctly, Brennan? It appears you see this as a form of betrayal?
I disagree that it's passive, I believe that men have just been conditioned and told themselves that it's fine, so it becomes second nature. But don't believe for a second it's passive and that they can't stop doing it.
It is absolutely objectification and I think it effects the way most men treat every single woman they meet.
I disagree that it's passive, I believe that me have just been conditioned and told themselves that it's fine, so it becomes second nature. But don't believe for a second it's passive and that they can't stop doing it.
It is absolutely objectification and I think it effects the way most men treat every single woman they meet.
That is unfortunate. Also think you have a Freudian typo in there ...
259 posts worth. Geez how hard is this to understand? We like women. ALL women. We like looking at them, smelling them, kissing them, touching them. We like watching them sit, stand, walk, brush their hair, staring into space. Young, old, blond, brunette, redhead, curvy, skinny, blue eye, green, brown, hazel, black, any ethnicity.
259 posts worth. Geez how hard is this to understand? We like women. ALL women. We like looking at them, smelling them, kissing them, touching them. We like watching them sit, stand, walk, brush their hair, staring into space. Young, old, blond, brunette, redhead, curvy, skinny, blue eye, green, brown, hazel, black, any ethnicity.
259 posts worth. Geez how hard is this to understand? We like women. ALL women. We like looking at them, smelling them, kissing them, touching them. We like watching them sit, stand, walk, brush their hair, staring into space. Young, old, blond, brunette, redhead, curvy, skinny, blue eye, green, brown, hazel, black, any ethnicity.
and whether they want to admit it or not, they like men doing all that, especially when they flash themselves or dress sexy
There is a huge difference between the automatic "yes/no/maybe" and the habit of indulging in the fantasy when the "yes" bell has rung.
I've actually watched other people as a beautiful woman or gorgeous guy walks by, just to see their reactions. It is rare to see anyone actually stare or leer. People in general seem to be cued into social standards enough not to cross the line into the "fantasy indulgence" realm.
259 posts worth. Geez how hard is this to understand? We like women. ALL women. We like looking at them, smelling them, kissing them, touching them. We like watching them sit, stand, walk, brush their hair, staring into space. Young, old, blond, brunette, redhead, curvy, skinny, blue eye, green, brown, hazel, black, any ethnicity.
It's almost impossible imagining this not to be true.
I wonder if women would like the world they would live in if it were not true?
and whether they want to admit it or not, they like men doing all that, especially when they flash themselves or dress sexy
Ha Ha I'll admit it , I like it ! If I dress to the hilt and notice some guy looking at me I surely know what he hell I am doing, and it IS flattering. I dont understand women at all.
This is so sweet and admirable. It says something about your son's character and integrity that he's willing to go against the grain and stand by his convictions despite societal views. He sounds like an upstanding guy. You must be so proud. I would be. It sounds like you've done a good job, SA. It says something when people aren't afraid to stand by their belief systems despite ridicule. I wish them the best!!!
Thank you Mommy, I really AM proud, you have no idea. He inspires me many times. He literally ENJOYS going agiainst the grain. Sometimes I think his form of rebellion is to be "good". We disagree on a variety of spiritual things, lots of debate in our household but he wouldn't want it any other way, we learn from each other. Fantastic relationship. He even posted on here once, I should bring him back, tell him we are talking about him! Ha ha
I told him this place would be good for him, he is taking Psychology in College, wants to be a Therapist or a Youth Paster. Can you imagine, and here his mom is playing a wannabe Sex Therapist online. We talk about it ALL. Our house is very interesting!
259 posts worth. Geez how hard is this to understand? We like women. ALL women. We like looking at them, smelling them, kissing them, touching them. We like watching them sit, stand, walk, brush their hair, staring into space. Young, old, blond, brunette, redhead, curvy, skinny, blue eye, green, brown, hazel, black, any ethnicity.
And we LIKE men too.
Difference being - most women don't look at one and put them in one of the "three categories." In OTW, we don't let what is between our legs rule our head.
I think what some of us women (mainly speaking for me), want in a man is a man who is truly committed - not only through marriage but through his heart and mind.
If you married ME, I should be enough for you - you're enough for me, why does it have to be different just because you're a man - it doesn't - it's a choice, just like everything else.
And when you make it obvious - by oogling and staring and following other women with your eyes, when with us - you don't have to say a word - your actions say it all - I'm not good enough - I'll never be skinny enough, young enough, pretty enough, or my body will never be perky enough.
Maybe men need to put the shoe on the other foot and see how it "feels" to feel like you'll never be good enough. It's an empty, shallow feeling - I know it well.
259 posts worth. Geez how hard is this to understand? We like women. ALL women. We like looking at them, smelling them, kissing them, touching them. We like watching them sit, stand, walk, brush their hair, staring into space. Young, old, blond, brunette, redhead, curvy, skinny, blue eye, green, brown, hazel, black, any ethnicity.
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Re: Is this the way men really think...? 
