Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right
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Old 05-21-2011, 01:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

I was speaking with a friend about this board the other day.

We were kicking around what I call the "chick" stuff about love languages, marriage builders, etc.

It dawned on me.

Love languages and meeting emotional needs works like a charm when you are the partner with the lower thermostat.

Yet, with some exceptions, this is a board filled with the "hot partners" looking to get some sort of response from the cooler partner.

So, when I hear people recommend the "chick" stuff to people here, it's often not the way to go.

Think of the MisterNiceGuy thread.

ONLY when he followed through on 1000 posts of advice to stop with the "chick" stuff and truly man up did he get anywhere.

So, is telling the warmer partner to "cool down" manipulation?

Of course it isn't.

And, while one size doesn't fit all in the world, it often does here.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

All these men are working on themselves to become more confident, more charming, more attractive, more sexual!

They stand up for themselves when they are being challenged, but you never see them use violence. Again, I reiterate, people can't be spoiled, if you spoil them, they will troll over you. But they have to be loved and respected, you give them a lot of love and attention, they faint for you. Please don't confuse spoiling with love! Spoiling is to let them do whatever they demand, love is to give them respect and emotional needs.

They don't beg for sex. They don't beg for love. You can't beg, and people nowadays don't give when you beg!

You become amazing, they drool over you!
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

I agree that it is not manipulative, it's emotional intelligence. Its emotionally dysfunctional to repeatedly act the same way with the same poor results. People make changes in many areas of life based upon the response to their behavior, in the work place for instance, but in personal relationship there is resistance sometimes.

I have read some post with comment about the cooling off advice as false and manipulative. It may not come naturally to the person making the change at first but we humans are very adaptable. The more you practice what works the more natural it feels and it becomes a part of you.

We accept as normal that children change drastically as they age. To think that we adults are somehow fixed for the 50 or more years that we spend in adulthood seems to run counter to the natural order governing the rest of the universe. Actually, I think at times we may resist the necessity to adapt new behaviors to meet life's challenges because of this faulty belief. Life is never static, we are constantly challenged to grow and change. It is good for the soul.
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Old 05-21-2011, 09:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

Catherine,

I have been thinking about this days, how can we become magnates, and people are just drawn to us.

Of course not those provoking behaviors, I call nagging, complaining, belittling, and insulting provoking behaviors, no one is drawn to people like these.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

Cat,
That is exactly where I have come out on this. My "default" emotional temperature is 80 degrees. My W is set at around 75.

And yes - this fluctuates a bit for her. But generally that is where she is. What I "actually" radiate is about 70. This simply requires a bit of restraint. Not hard once you get used to it. When she wants more heat SHE gets warmer and I reciprocate. At some level this equates to her "catching" me. She doesn't have to get warmer by being sexual though often she does. She can simply do it through touch or talk.

I don't pretend to understand "why" this works so well. I simply understand that it does. And I can also say that when I have occasionally not shown restraint, and hit 80-85 degrees she has responded in a consistent and very negative manner.

It is also true that she likes to crank up the thermostat during the hour or so we spend together in bed at night. When I say she is at 75 - that is her average 'daily' temperature. Most nights during the golden hour, she is at 90+. She asks me if I love her and when I say "more than you can imagine", repeats "but do you love me", and we go back and forth a while like that. And that is my favorite hour of the day - and she tells me it is also hers. Thing is SHE wants to initiate that stuff. Fine by me.

If I did not show a mild level of restraint in this area, she would love me a LOT LESS. And it also seems to make her tense/anxious. The thing is, I don't think she is all that unusual in this regard. And heck even if she were the only woman in the world like this that would be fine as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine602 View Post
I agree that it is not manipulative, it's emotional intelligence. Its emotionally dysfunctional to repeatedly act the same way with the same poor results. People make changes in many areas of life based upon the response to their behavior, in the work place for instance, but in personal relationship there is resistance sometimes.

I have read some post with comment about the cooling off advice as false and manipulative. It may not come naturally to the person making the change at first but we humans are very adaptable. The more you practice what works the more natural it feels and it becomes a part of you.

We accept as normal that children change drastically as they age. To think that we adults are somehow fixed for the 50 or more years that we spend in adulthood seems to run counter to the natural order governing the rest of the universe. Actually, I think at times we may resist the necessity to adapt new behaviors to meet life's challenges because of this faulty belief. Life is never static, we are constantly challenged to grow and change. It is good for the soul.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

GP,
Bravo!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenpearl View Post
All these men are working on themselves to become more confident, more charming, more attractive, more sexual!

They stand up for themselves when they are being challenged, but you never see them use violence. Again, I reiterate, people can't be spoiled, if you spoil them, they will troll over you. But they have to be loved and respected, you give them a lot of love and attention, they faint for you. Please don't confuse spoiling with love! Spoiling is to let them do whatever they demand, love is to give them respect and emotional needs.

They don't beg for sex. They don't beg for love. You can't beg, and people nowadays don't give when you beg!

You become amazing, they drool over you!
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

Yes. The thermostat makes sense. And works. But I was also thinking about the dynamics of parts of it.

First off, why is it the job of the higher temp person to cool off? Why not say? Look honey, your too cold. Time to heat up.

Second...in essence. The thermometer scale interaction has parts to it that are passive aggressive by nature. You get a bit of disrespect, so you chill it down. Sometimes drastically. Never talk or tell why, until your partner acknowledges something was done wrong and THEY initiate the talk. This is classic passive aggressive behavior to a T. You passively intend to punish to draw out a response from your partner.

Interesting....to say the least. There are definitely part of it I don't understand either.
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine602 View Post
I agree that it is not manipulative, it's emotional intelligence. Its emotionally dysfunctional to repeatedly act the same way with the same poor results. People make changes in many areas of life based upon the response to their behavior, in the work place for instance, but in personal relationship there is resistance sometimes.

I have read some post with comment about the cooling off advice as false and manipulative. It may not come naturally to the person making the change at first but we humans are very adaptable. The more you practice what works the more natural it feels and it becomes a part of you.

We accept as normal that children change drastically as they age. To think that we adults are somehow fixed for the 50 or more years that we spend in adulthood seems to run counter to the natural order governing the rest of the universe. Actually, I think at times we may resist the necessity to adapt new behaviors to meet life's challenges because of this faulty belief. Life is never static, we are constantly challenged to grow and change. It is good for the soul.
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All of it is about emotional intelligence, emotional control, management and manipulation. I don’t think that’s ever wrong when the motivations are sound.

A man can go from relative inner peace and calm to a raging lunatic in around 0.002 of a second. That rapid response to a “threat” is there for very valid reasons. But it’s exceedingly rarely warranted in any form of human relationship in the modern world, but more especially so in a marriage.

We do “affect” the emotions of others, there’s no doubt about that. The outcomes of these guys’ emotional intelligence is undoubtedly good tending towards excellence.

Bob
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

Not the way I do it. She ALWAYS gets a brief message that clearly shows WHAT I am responding to before I drop the temp. The goal is not to torment her into a higher state of self awareness. Nope. The goal is to say "this behavior was bad" - which might me done via clear body language or a single word. And THEN when she knows WHY you drop the temp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaomega View Post
Yes. The thermostat makes sense. And works. But I was also thinking about the dynamics of parts of it.

First off, why is it the job of the higher temp person to cool off? Why not say? Look honey, your too cold. Time to heat up.

Second...in essence. The thermometer scale interaction has parts to it that are passive aggressive by nature. You get a bit of disrespect, so you chill it down. Sometimes drastically. Never talk or tell why, until your partner acknowledges something was done wrong and THEY initiate the talk. This is classic passive aggressive behavior to a T. You passively intend to punish to draw out a response from your partner.

Interesting....to say the least. There are definitely part of it I don't understand either.
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaomega View Post
Yes. The thermostat makes sense. And works. But I was also thinking about the dynamics of parts of it.

First off, why is it the job of the higher temp person to cool off? Why not say? Look honey, your too cold. Time to heat up.

Second...in essence. The thermometer scale interaction has parts to it that are passive aggressive by nature. You get a bit of disrespect, so you chill it down. Sometimes drastically. Never talk or tell why, until your partner acknowledges something was done wrong and THEY initiate the talk. This is classic passive aggressive behavior to a T. You passively intend to punish to draw out a response from your partner.

Interesting....to say the least. There are definitely part of it I don't understand either.
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That’s not my understanding of passive aggressive behaviour.

PA behaviour is when a person deliberately/consciously sets out to hurt another all the while disguising the fact that that is what they are doing. It’s rather akin to someone standing in front of you smiling at you while at the very same time they are stabbing you in the back and moving the knife around to make sure it hurts. It’s very painful (it’s meant to be) and unbelievable (it’s meant to be), it’s very well disguised. It’s thought out beforehand and that makes it premeditated.

There is absolutely none of that type of behaviour indicated by ANY of the men who post here.

Bob

Last edited by AFEH; 05-22-2011 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I still consider the analogy of learning a musical instrument is proper in the context of whether "manning up" or "cooling the thermostat" is manipulation or not.

We all know music is affecting our own mood, and emotional, and playing an instrument well communicates many things effectively.

So learning scales, chords, key signatures, progressions, inversions, arpeggios, reading music, or any other "tools" of music craft, these things are not manipulation, nor are they good or evil in any such way.

They are merely tools.

So as a beginner is practicing scales, or learning something new, we all know it is often painful and not pleasant.

But after time, as these habits become learned, and the patterns and reflexes become easily done without thinking, then is it not possible for the master musician to express himself fluidly, whether in a sad piece of music, a dramatic piece, a jazz piece, or in an frantic piece, etc etc.

And the result, with all the hard work and practice, making this look easy, as if he was born playing his instrument.

So we do not accuse the master musician of being manipulative with our emotions, or of hiding the fact that perhaps he was not born as a young child out of the womb as a master of his instrument. How absurd!

Yet, the good man perhaps in an unhappy marriage with little sex, taking the steps to master his own masculinity, to master his handling of conflict with the opposite sex, to master fitness tests, to master flirting, to master adjusting his "thermostat" or to master any thing else in the world speaking of "manning up" which is merely learning to be effective with the "tools" of masculine sexual structure, he is not in any way less than the master musician.

For there is no need to deceive ourselves, marriage is born from sexual attraction, and marriage is expected to be a sexual relationship.

Therefore, to understand and become effective in the art of masculine sexual attraction, this is most helpful for the man in maintaining the long lasting, exciting, happy marriage.

For the good man in marriage, this is not manipulation or something "defective" on his part to learn and implement these masculine tools.

My strong opinion, the fact it is his RESPONSIBILITY for his happiness AND the happiness of his woman!
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why Deejo, MEM, and Wolf are right

I agree that there's definitely a difference between emotional intelligence and outright manipulation. I think anyone who would accuse a spouse who is upping his or her emotional intelligence of being manipulative is taking a pretty simplistic view.

I read a passage in a book that spoke to this topic. The author made a really interesting parallel: Is it manipulative to act professional at a job interview? You may burp, fart, and curse in your daily life, but would you do that in front of a hiring manager? Of course you wouldn't, at least not if you wanted the job. You'd be professional, well-spoken, and courteous. However, this isn't being manipulative, this is simply presenting and expressing a certain side of yourself so that you may improve your situation.

It's the same in a relationship IMO: As you gain emotional intelligence and insight into the relationship, you incorporate that insight into your daily actions and express a side of yourself to the betterment of your relationship.
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The question is whether or not you stay true to who you are while changing because if you can't sustain the change as it is unnatural and uncomfortable for you, then it is a temporary walk in someone else's shoes.

There is nothing wrong with self improvement, learning, trying new ideas, concepts or behaviors.

But let's remember here. If a woman gives out lots of sex in the beginning of the relationship we accuse her of trying to seal the deal and being manipulative. If a man controls and withholds specific behaviors or attitudes that actually do come naturally to him in order to prompt a specific behavior from his wife, it's a similar selfish behavior. I'm just saying, let's call a spade a spade.

This is why I see the difference being in follow through and a true desire to transform and grow rather than an attempt to salvage a sinking relationship. It has more to do with the motives behind the change than anything else.
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Don’t know about anybody else Trenton but I’ve gotten rather tired of your constant knocking of BBW. What is it you have such a desperate need to prove? Why do you consistently and constantly knock BBW? Aren’t you even just a little bit concerned with being seen as a troll as far as BBW is concerned?

As far as my marriage is concerned if I’d heard MEMs and BBWs messages long ago the dark times in my marriage wouldn’t have been so dark when my wife poked me. In fact I think we’d have soon come out of them laughing, together.

There is something you are missing Trenton and you’re missing it big time. It seems almost deliberate.

Bob
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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T,
Deep sigh. I like the sex analogy so we will stick with that. My behavior
Is simply the equivalent of letting your spouse initiate sex. And when
They do you respond very positively. So let's do the full analog
Here. Let's say the W simply knows that her H strongly prefers
To initiate. And allowed to do so he happily and frequently does so.
And while he is ok if she Initiates every once in a while, he responds
Badly to her doing so frequently.

You are combining "rejection" with letting the other person "set the
Pace". I think the idea of "restraint" does not come naturally to
You.

7]The question is whether or not you stay true to who you are while changing because if you can't sustain the change as it is unnatural and uncomfortable for you, then it is a temporary walk in someone else's shoes.

There is nothing wrong with self improvement, learning, trying new ideas, concepts or behaviors.

But let's remember here. If a woman gives out lots of sex in the beginning of the relationship we accuse her of trying to seal the deal and being manipulative. If a man controls and withholds specific behaviors or attitudes that actually do come naturally to him in order to prompt a specific behavior from his wife, it's a similar selfish behavior. I'm just saying, let's call a spade a spade.

This is why I see the difference being in follow through and a true desire to transform and grow rather than an attempt to salvage a sinking relationship. It has more to do with the motives behind the change than anything else.[/QUOTE]
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