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Old 06-11-2011, 05:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Women hating Nice Guys, the end of civilization?

Saw this blog while doing a search on similar topics.

On this forum we focus on micro level these things, in relationships between a man and woman.

On macro level, is there truth to some of the social wide implications of these phenomena?

I am eager to hear other's thoughts and opinions on these things.

Whiskey's Place: Why Women Hate Nice Guys (and the Implications)

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Why Women Hate Nice Guys (and the Implications)
From Instapundit comes the link of 12 Reasons Women Can't Stand Nice Guys. Well, duh, nice guys are beta males. Which is another way of saying "un-sexy." American and Western society is completely and totally focused on providing the maximum of sexy men to most women. The only problem with this is that it provides no way to produce all the nice things women want, along with sexy men. A safe and secure environment? Nope. An expanding, growing economy? Nope. Ever advancing technology that makes food better and safer and cheaper, medical practices more life saving and life-enhancing, living better in every way? Nope.


Providing "sexy men" merely produces a fairly rapid fall into chaos, poverty, and violence. One need only look at how the Black community, which went from (per Juan Williams 2005 WSJ Father's Day op-ed) 24% illegitimacy in the early 1960's, to over 90% in the urban core and over 70% nationwide today. New Orleans in particular carries the shadow of former Black society. Building after building that housed Black Benevolent societies, Black associations of doctors, lawyers, accountants, and the like. New Orleans in Jelly Roll Morton's and Louis Armstrong's day (just listen to the former's Library of Congress Recordings, likely available at your public library and definitely on Amazon, they have been re-released, or the latter's painfully typed out, non-ghostwritten autobiography) had a Black society that worked. True, it was far more violent and chaotic than the matching White one, but it did function. Armstrong may have been placed in an orphanage when his drug and drink addicted mother could no longer care for him, and given a trumpet of a boy who died of tuberculosis (something Armstrong never forgot). But at least Armstrong was not on the streets, the orphanage and everything else run by Blacks for Blacks. White people provided nothing.

Today of course, all that is gone. And the White rates are estimated to be around 20% for the White middle class, and 40% for the White working class (below 4% for all Whites in the early 1960's). The Hispanic rate according to Heather McDonald at City Journal is over 50%.

Sexy men mean illegitimate children. They mean single motherhood, because the bad-boy things that make men sexy, make them totally uninterested and unable to provide for a single women (they are more interested in having the next sweet young thing, and can get them too!) Single motherhood of course, is a poverty factory. Maybe not if you're as good looking (and the son of a famous father) as Freddy Prinze Jr. Or the daughter of a College Professor, whose brothers are all lawyers and doctors (Eliza Dushku). But for those not on the upper one half of one percent of attractiveness or intelligence or both, or with the talent and physique of LeBron James, life as the child of a single mother is poor, violent, and hard. No matter how much welfare is thrown at the mothers and children.

Recently, Mike Huckabee criticized Natalee Portman's Oscar acceptance speech for glamorizing single motherhood. James Carville on CNN made the comment that in Huckabee's apology, he at least "realized" that government support is necessary for single mothers to avoid starvation and poverty. Carville of course did not get it, literally living in 1965.

A few single mothers can be amply and ably supported by a social welfare system that is not under financial pressure, from an ample middle class. A social welfare system under huge pressure from a Black underclass, an exodus of poor Mexicans (and significantly, their descendants), and a growing White working-underclass, is unsustainable.

Hispanic girls tend to start having kids at age 16, having nino after nino, until age 40 or so, with various bad boys. It might be very sexy. But it is not sustainable, because there just are not enough White middle class taxpayers able (much less willing) to pick up the tab. White (to some extent Asian, varying by community/culture/ethnic group) parents generally (mostly, not always) have kids they can afford. White women for the most part still (particularly in the middle class) have only the kids they can afford to have. Asking them, and even worse, their male counterparts to subsidize the family formation of Hispanic girls chasing bad boys at age 16 (and having kids they cannot afford) is simply impossible. There are too many single mothers needing subsidies, and too few taxpayers able to pay for them.

From the article on 12 Reasons Women Can't Stand Nice Guys, the consists of the following reasons:




Nice guys are too nice (translation: not sexy!

Nice guys don't take control and demand "respect" (translation: Are Not Socially Dominant A-holes with lots of other women

Nice guys are predictable (translation: not SEXY!

Nice guys don't need saving (translation: NOT SEXY!

Nice guys don't need to be fixed (translation: NOT NOT NOT! Sexy

Nice guys are genetically inferior and their sperm is unworthy (translation: Very, very, very, very, very un-sexy

Fear of intimacy (translation: NOT! Sexy!

Low self-esteem (translation: Not … sexy dammit!

Sex -- nice guys are not sexy! (no translation needed)

Charm, nice guys are not smooth talkers (translation: or, nice guys are not sexy!

Protection, bad boys are better protection because they are better fighters, doing it so much (translation: a guy beating the crap out of someone else, even a woman (see Rihanna) is sexy!




The article concludes:


Life is about balance. Most men fall into either the bad boy or the nice guy category. The ideal man is neither, but walks that fine line between the two. Until men learn how to do this, more often than not, women will choose the bad boy, until they realize that his bad qualities outweigh his good ones.


Or, perhaps we can turn that around:


Life is about balance. Most women fall into either the sexy stripper or the nice virginal girl category. The ideal woman is neither, but walks that fine line between the two. Until women learn how to do this, more often than not, men will choose (if they are sexy) to screw as many women as possible until they reach their late fifties at which point they'll marry their own Catherine Zeta-Jones, the rest will have occasional sex but find in the main, a used-up cougar to be inferior to a porn subscription. Regardless, women won't get quality men to marry them. And will be left with dregs whom if they do marry, they will resent as "kitchen *****es" and beta males.


There, all fixed!

The problem is that most women, even those of average attractiveness, can have sex with an Alpha male. Tiger Woods women, that of Jessie James, those of John Edwards, and so on, are not exactly Helen of Troy. Women over-estimate their beauty, and their beauty's duration, because they can be just another meaningless play-mate for an Alpha male with little discrimination.

Women find themselves getting old at 29:


Women consider themselves old at 29 – half the age of men who don’t feel over the hill until they are 58, according to a study.

A quarter of women say they felt old as soon as they spotted their first grey hairs.

In contrast men tend to think they are still young until they can no longer perform in the bedroom.


This is just another expression of desire for sexy men. Only the prettiest women can command the attention of the top sexiest men in any social setting. For most women, their looks start to fade fast in their twenties, and the fact of the hottest, bad boy men no longer noticing them can be a shock. Still, women tend to over-estimate how long they can play the field, and underestimate their chances of losing out by not making the best available choice sooner.

If the Duke F-List girl was at all representative, 13 partners in two years is not an extreme outlier. Needless to say, a girl with too many partners, all those bad boys, is a poor prospect for a wife, and any woman in her thirties is going to be fairly undesirable for any man with any options at all (this includes porn). [Women generally don't understand this, I explain below for them.]


Why is so many partners, and particularly bad boys, such a bad thing for a woman searching for a husband? Because the 90% of men who are not Alpha males (the sexy bad boys who can have almost any woman in their social circle) know fairly well that the most intense bonds, shared experiences, sexual pleasure, and memories will be with other men. At best, they are mere shadows of what was, and remains, in a woman's heart, at that age. Even the most beautiful woman in her thirties is less desirable therefore than a fairly inexperienced, un-baggage ridden average looking girl in her early twenties, or late teens. All the Botox, Pilates, Jillian Michaels workout videos, and Nautilus toned body won't change that fact. Only the most desperate, clueless, and lonely men will respond.

This is true even for widows and divorced women. The absent husband, no matter how badly he left, will always be the dominant man in the woman's heart and memories. Porn has the massive ability to substitute for what amounts to indifferent sex (even the most beautiful woman in her thirties loses her appeal, and lets face it Jane Average is not Jennifer Aniston at age 32) and emotionless coupling.

All the "man up" exhortations by writers like Kay Hymowitz can't force men to commit to women after they've chased their share of bad boys. Women can chase the bad boys all they want, but like everything, there is a cost.


Yes, it is true, about 90% of all middle class White guys are beta males. They are not sexy and exciting. They are neither bad boys in the mold of Russell Brand, nor George Clooney. News flash: About 90% of all Middle Class White women are not Jennifer Aniston, at age 40. Let alone beauties like Mila Kunis, or Brittany Snow. Asking about 90% of men to be something they are not is akin to asking 90% of all middle class White women to as beautiful as say, either ****** Greene or Brittany Snow (to pick at random two Maxim cover-girls). Women's desire for sexy men is an unreasonable as men's desire for most women to look like Maxim cover-girls.

But women can make it, because they unlike most men have the asymmetric ability to sleep with the male equivalent of Brittany Snow (that would be the Russell Brands of the world). They just can't get those bad boys to marry them and support them.

The dynamic is complicated by both gender and racial spoils politics. A good part of the female demand for sexy men is the Hispanic/Mexican girls desire and willingness to start having kids at age 16 with bad boys who cannot support them. Thus inducing a massive welfare burden. A full 83% of Santa Ana Unified School District students receive subsidized/free meals. Obviously about 83%, or so, of SAUSD parents cannot afford to pay for their kids meals. Requiring federal subsidies.

In this, both White women, and non-Whites, are generally aligned in interests. Their interests are in extracting the maximum amount of money from taxpayers, to fuel children (family as defined as single mom plus kids by various sexy bad boys) and family formation. The catch is that a very significant portion (most of them, in fact) of Middle Class White women are also taxpayers, and don't like the money going to people not like them. Welfare for Hispanic/Mexican single mothers, means ultimately no subsidies for NPR (and jobs there), or federally supported foundations, or paper-pushing "studies" busywork in education, the environment, and so on. All the money increasingly needs to be poured into either K-12 or welfare spent on Mexican/Hispanic single mothers.

So what are the implications of the widespread female demand that most men be sexy (clearly most Mexican men are "sexy" to their female peers, mostly by an uber-macho, combative set of behaviors, particularly including gang membership and criminal violence)?

The first is obviously, a decline in technological advancement. Clearly, outsourcing, in-sourcing, and the export of American manufacturing to China and elsewhere has destroyed American innovation. But in part, this has been abetted by the total demand for sexiness. While nearly all of Aaron Sorkin's "the Social Network" was outright fabrication, what rang true was the total lack of desire (then and now) for billionaire Mark Zuckerberg. Particularly for women with their own money, and earning power, a man must be sexy beyond mere wealth. Wealth alone will not cut it, hence the lack of desire expressed for beta males like Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, no matter how much power and influence they wield. Neither has the smidgen of sex appeal of say, Lamar Odom or Chris Brown. [Good Morning America wants Chris Brown back, despite his temper tantrum of ripping off his shirt and throwing a chair through a window, and trashing his dressing room there. Because their female audience finds him sexy, no matter the beat-down he gave then girlfriend Rihanna. He's a BAD BOY. That means, sexy. For women, in general, all is forgiven as long as a man is sexy. Sexy, sexy, sexy.]

Facebook is not anything new. Its merely a Friendster or MySpace that works. With a few more features. It is not game-changing technology. Steve Sailer wondered, recently, where all the innovation went? "Where are my flying cars?" Well, they went the way of nuclear families formed by pocket protector wearing geeks. Those with that bent had few or no children, as women demanded sexy bad boys who are great in the sack, but cannot produce game-changing technology (like say, a cure for cancer or artificial organs that work, or electric car batteries with the power and weight ratio and range of the internal combustion engine, with comparable refill times). Add to it, the lack of incentive to strive. Those with the current bent for technology not only face a bleak outsourcing, in-sourcing H1-B visa environment, they face a life of sexless monkdom. No wonder they are slackers.

Innovation and change is rarely produced by some great idea borne out by a single genius. Most of the time, it requires an idea, that was fascinating, that was dropped, and then developed a bit later, by someone else, and then someone else and other people put it and other bits together to form a new whole. Something impossible without all the other bits around, done by other people, often in concert.

Sexy men means stagnant or reversing technology. People unable to build or maintain things they were fifty years ago. In 1969, America reached the moon. America has now abandoned even low Earth orbit. Not the least of which is that we lack the technology to make even that happen any more.

Sexy men also means a race to the bottom for sexiness. Women's demand for sexy men does not happen in a vacuum. Men tend to respond. The easiest way to be sexy, as noted by author Lucia, is to thug it up. Be dangerous, fight a lot, smack people around (even your girlfriend, see Chris Brown, or Charlie Sheen). The more violent and dangerous a man is, the more women will want him. Even if he's ugly, or is accused of murdering some other woman. Joran Van Der Sloot cut a wide swath among women in Asia, drawn by his infamy in the Natalee Holloway case (Van Der Sloot has all but confessed to murdering Holloway). Of course, Van Der Sloot killed a young woman in Peru, who unwisely went to his hotel room, drawn by his fame no doubt.

One need only look at the Ghetto and Barrio to see this in action. "Senseless" killings are not, merely the dark side of female sexuality. Since women find bad boys to be sexy, Ghetto and Barrio men make themselves bad boys by ultra-violence. When some little kid, or grandmother, or infant is shot in a drive-by, be assured that somewhere, a gang banger is having sex (if he's not arrested). As Roissy points out, even adjusting for race, criminals have more kids than non-criminals. In other words, comparing White guys to White guys, and Black guys to Black guys, and so on, those locked up or who have been locked up have more kids than those who were never locked up. Despite being, well, locked up for some non insignificant amount of time.

As Roissy points out, Chicks Dig Jerks. And as more and more men become aware of this, they will do their level best to turn themselves into the biggest jerk they can. Bet on it. And once they know it, it is almost impossible to turn them back.

Look at Black Rappers. They make all that money. All that fame and fortune. Or say, Michael Vick, at the time possessing a $130 million contract. Why risk all that money for stupid violence, a shooting in a club, dog fighting rings, etc? Because acting like a violent thug all their life has gotten them the hottest, most desirable women. And more women than they can even remember. Sexual rewards will work on the White middle class, and its men, just as much as they did on Black men in the Ghetto. Or Mexican men in the Barrio.

No, it won't happen overnight. Significant social conditioning, rewards, and so on make middle class White guys more resistant to violence. But certainly, the kids of single mothers will know exactly what turned their moms on: violent, dangerous bad boys. They'll copy those guys, and even provide some "improvements."

The idea that White guys are inherently non-violent and shrink from confrontation (which would have shocked Black and Hispanic men of Louis Armstrong's age) particularly with non-Whites, is going to go out the window. In some respect this will be long overdue, but the cost is basically a nation comprised entirely of Scots-Irish "hillbilly" types. Which simply cannot run a modern economy and will look for fights the way Black and Hispanic men do, because it gets them sex!

So the social implications of sexy men demanded by White women along with Black and Hispanic women, is a very rapid movement, towards decline and violence. Making the wealth struggles to cut the welfare pie off an America with declining innovation and technological power, a declining White middle class, and so on, even more desperate. As the take shrinks, the usual response is to deal people out. Vote them off the Island, so to speak.

All prosperous societies, such as Japan, South Korea, Finland, Switzerland, and Coastal China, tend to suppress sexy men. They tend to limit, in various ways, the ability for Bad Boys to dominate all the desirable women. And on the other hand, limit women's choices. A woman must generally choose fairly early, if she wants a husband (Japan and South Korea's and China's low birth rates currently likely stem from their women rejecting the unsexy men they have on offer). Japan and South Korea, at least, are declining from massive and probably unsustainable population peaks with a well educated and prosperous workforce, with first-class infrastructure for the most part. [China is not so lucky on either front.]

But those societies throughout history and now, that allow sexy men, the dominant bad boys, and women to run things, are typically very violent, and primitive. Male cooperation goes entirely out the window. Why cooperate when you get better sex and reproductive opportunities by constant fighting? The female sexual utopia looks a lot like Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. And in some ways that is America's, and the West's, future.

Everything has its price, and the price for Sexy Men for Western women is basically the end as we know it, of Western civilization. With something approaching Dark Ages kingdoms or Mad Max as its replacement.

But at least the men will be sexy!

Whiskey's Place: Why Women Hate Nice Guys (and the Implications)
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Women hating Nice Guys, the end of civilization?

Maybe women hate nice guys because they can. Maybe that's their factory setting.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Women hating Nice Guys, the end of civilization?

Yah - I don't even know where to start with this. What is the definition of sexy? Perhaps it is like beauty, all in the eye of the beholder. To me, the issue isn't one of 'sexiness', it's one that deals with the total transgression and dereliction of duty - boiling down to how selfish we are in leaving our families and children hanging out to dry instead of raising them properly. To me it's not about what is sexy. That's only a poor by-product of our transgression.

What I find sexy:

"If there be any truer measure of a man than by what he does, it must be by what he gives." ~ R. South

Therefore, I will do my darndest to give and raise my sons to be nice guys - wholesome, whole men who are confident, proud, and loving. Because I don't see anything wrong with that at all, and everybody else is all ****-eyed screwy if they don't get that.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Women hating Nice Guys, the end of civilization?

There are sooo many things wrong with this blog/ post I don't even know where to begin. At first I laughed at the utter ridiculousness of it, and absolutely unbelievable screwed up insinuations that have no basis nor foundation what so ever, however then I was just sadened that there might be a whole lot of people not able to see this kind of rubbish for what it is.

I will be back to explain why.

OK Im back
Why Women Hate Nice Guys (and the Implications)
Quote:
From Instapundit comes the link of 12 Reasons Women Can't Stand Nice Guys. Well, duh, nice guys are beta males. Which is another way of saying "un-sexy." American and Western society is completely and totally focused on providing the maximum of sexy men to most women. The only problem with this is that it provides no way to produce all the nice things women want, along with sexy men. A safe and secure environment? Nope. An expanding, growing economy? Nope. Ever advancing technology that makes food better and safer and cheaper, medical practices more life saving and life-enhancing, living better in every way? Nope.
For the record, I believe only a few women find A holes sexy or attractive and very very few find them sexy or attractive long term.
There is a big difference between 1) men who get walked all over, 2) men who stand up for them selves and what they know is right, and 3) men who treat women like crappolla.
Women can also be walked all over and treated badly by men, I see an equal amount of it on this board, However they aren't blaming the ills of the whole world on the fact that some men seem to go for the wrong women.

Quote:
Providing "sexy men" merely produces a fairly rapid fall into chaos, poverty, and violence. One need only look at how the Black community, which went from (per Juan Williams 2005 WSJ Father's Day op-ed) 24% illegitimacy in the early 1960's, to over 90% in the urban core and over 70% nationwide today. New Orleans in particular carries the shadow of former Black society. Building after building that housed Black Benevolent societies, Black associations of doctors, lawyers, accountants, and the like. New Orleans in Jelly Roll Morton's and Louis Armstrong's day (just listen to the former's Library of Congress Recordings, likely available at your public library and definitely on Amazon, they have been re-released, or the latter's painfully typed out, non-ghostwritten autobiography) had a Black society that worked. True, it was far more violent and chaotic than the matching White one, but it did function. Armstrong may have been placed in an orphanage when his drug and drink addicted mother could no longer care for him, and given a trumpet of a boy who died of tuberculosis (something Armstrong never forgot). But at least Armstrong was not on the streets, the orphanage and everything else run by Blacks for Blacks. White people provided nothing.
Oh my, there are so many things wrong with this paragraph. What a load of racist mumbo jumbo garbage.
The black community does not have issues because of sexy men. Society does not have issues because of sexy men. Society has many issues due to selfishness and greed, ill thought out social policies, white privilege, unequal power, racism, sexism, not enough empathy etc. The media also has a lot to answer for, as what is promoted as valuable is money, sexual promiscuity and men and women who are valued in the media are not the type of people I want my children to be modeling themselves after. And do you know who runs and owns the media? Well its not for the most part women, it is in fact men.

Quote:
Today of course, all that is gone. And the White rates are estimated to be around 20% for the White middle class, and 40% for the White working class (below 4% for all Whites in the early 1960's). The Hispanic rate according to Heather McDonald at City Journal is over 50%.

Sexy men mean illegitimate children. They mean single motherhood, because the bad-boy things that make men sexy, make them totally uninterested and unable to provide for a single women (they are more interested in having the next sweet young thing, and can get them too!) Single motherhood of course, is a poverty factory. Maybe not if you're as good looking (and the son of a famous father) as Freddy Prinze Jr. Or the daughter of a College Professor, whose brothers are all lawyers and doctors (Eliza Dushku). But for those not on the upper one half of one percent of attractiveness or intelligence or both, or with the talent and physique of LeBron James, life as the child of a single mother is poor, violent, and hard. No matter how much welfare is thrown at the mothers and children.
I think the misrepresentation of women in the media and the demonization of single mothers has a lot to answer for with regards to this ridiculous statement. Statistically speaking most single mothers are women ewho have been married and divorced, and just like most people on here I am sure when they maried, they married for love and had all the hopes and dreams and desires of everyone else. Moreover for every single mother and child there is also a man who fathered that child.

I think its very telling that the finger is being pointed at women. How surprising.
Quote:
Recently, Mike Huckabee criticized Natalee Portman's Oscar acceptance speech for glamorizing single motherhood. James Carville on CNN made the comment that in Huckabee's apology, he at least "realized" that government support is necessary for single mothers to avoid starvation and poverty. Carville of course did not get it, literally living in 1965.

A few single mothers can be amply and ably supported by a social welfare system that is not under financial pressure, from an ample middle class. A social welfare system under huge pressure from a Black underclass, an exodus of poor Mexicans (and significantly, their descendants), and a growing White working-underclass, is unsustainable.
And here's a mention of "the underclass" I think I'm going to be ill really.
The fact is that statistically women are the poorest the world over and even in western countries suffer extreme disadvantage. Moreover most single mothers do work and pay taxes, and that most middle class and rich people tend to forget that poor people work hard and pay taxes too, in fact without poorer' people western countries wouldn't function.

The incline in single mothers is not because of women being attracted to bad guys, it is because they have other options and don't have to stay with bad guys, they can divorce and can work etc, this doesn't mean its an easy option.

The stuff mentioned here doesnt even begin to to touch on the real economical and sociological reasons why people are disadvantaged.

This is a very ill thought out racist, prejudiced load of poop.

Quote:
Hispanic girls tend to start having kids at age 16, having nino after nino, until age 40 or so, with various bad boys. It might be very sexy. But it is not sustainable, because there just are not enough White middle class taxpayers able (much less willing) to pick up the tab. White (to some extent Asian, varying by community/culture/ethnic group) parents generally (mostly, not always) have kids they can afford. White women for the most part still (particularly in the middle class) have only the kids they can afford to have. Asking them, and even worse, their male counterparts to subsidize the family formation of Hispanic girls chasing bad boys at age 16 (and having kids they cannot afford) is simply impossible. There are too many single mothers needing subsidies, and too few taxpayers able to pay for them.
Perhaps there are just too many men not encouraged to take their responsibilities seriously.

Quote:
From the article on 12 Reasons Women Can't Stand Nice Guys, the consists of the following reasons:




Nice guys are too nice (translation: not sexy!

Nice guys don't take control and demand "respect" (translation: Are Not Socially Dominant A-holes with lots of other women

Nice guys are predictable (translation: not SEXY!

Nice guys don't need saving (translation: NOT SEXY!

Nice guys don't need to be fixed (translation: NOT NOT NOT! Sexy

Nice guys are genetically inferior and their sperm is unworthy (translation: Very, very, very, very, very un-sexy

Fear of intimacy (translation: NOT! Sexy!

Low self-esteem (translation: Not … sexy dammit!

Sex -- nice guys are not sexy! (no translation needed)

Charm, nice guys are not smooth talkers (translation: or, nice guys are not sexy!

Protection, bad boys are better protection because they are better fighters, doing it so much (translation: a guy beating the crap out of someone else, even a woman (see Rihanna) is sexy!

There are plenty of women who are treated badly by men and women treated badly by men, it happens to everyone, some people do not set good boundaries and some men and women take advantage of that, its not a gendered issue. All people should raise their children to be good and kind, but to also have good self esteem and not be walked all over.

Quote:
The article concludes:


Life is about balance. Most men fall into either the bad boy or the nice guy category. The ideal man is neither, but walks that fine line between the two. Until men learn how to do this, more often than not, women will choose the bad boy, until they realize that his bad qualities outweigh his good ones.
Wrong most women do go out with someone not good for them and some stay with these guys, but most move on and look for someone who will love them and who they can raise a family with.

Quote:
Or, perhaps we can turn that around:


Life is about balance. Most women fall into either the sexy stripper or the nice virginal girl category. The ideal woman is neither, but walks that fine line between the two. Until women learn how to do this, more often than not, men will choose (if they are sexy) to screw as many women as possible until they reach their late fifties at which point they'll marry their own Catherine Zeta-Jones, the rest will have occasional sex but find in the main, a used-up cougar to be inferior to a porn subscription. Regardless, women won't get quality men to marry them. And will be left with dregs whom if they do marry, they will resent as "kitchen *****es" and beta males.
Id love to see some stats on this, and while I agree that women are socially conditioned often into the above described behaviour, I have not seen that many men who can have sex with who ever they want and then settle down ion their 50's. Just doesn't happen, and if these boards are anything to go by men want to be in long term committed relationships too.

I wouldn't call a man who cant commit and thinks porn is better then a real woman a quality man. I'd call him someone with huge baggage , who is very shallow and will never be happy.

Quote:
There, all fixed!

The problem is that most women, even those of average attractiveness, can have sex with an Alpha male. Tiger Woods women, that of Jessie James, those of John Edwards, and so on, are not exactly Helen of Troy. Women over-estimate their beauty, and their beauty's duration, because they can be just another meaningless play-mate for an Alpha male with little discrimination.

Women find themselves getting old at 29:


Women consider themselves old at 29 – half the age of men who don’t feel over the hill until they are 58, according to a study.
I would say this is because of the portrayal of women in the media as being beautiful only while they are young, not to mention the porn industry. However almost as many women as men have affairs so this rracist sexist ramble seems to be forgetting that women don't seem to have trouble finding men who want them.

Quote:

A quarter of women say they felt old as soon as they spotted their first grey hairs.

In contrast men tend to think they are still young until they can no longer perform in the bedroom.


This is just another expression of desire for sexy men. Only the prettiest women can command the attention of the top sexiest men in any social setting. For most women, their looks start to fade fast in their twenties, and the fact of the hottest, bad boy men no longer noticing them can be a shock. Still, women tend to over-estimate how long they can play the field, and underestimate their chances of losing out by not making the best available choice sooner.

If the Duke F-List girl was at all representative, 13 partners in two years is not an extreme outlier. Needless to say, a girl with too many partners, all those bad boys, is a poor prospect for a wife, and any woman in her thirties is going to be fairly undesirable for any man with any options at all (this includes porn). [Women generally don't understand this, I explain below for them.]
I am astounded at the links made here and the clear miss understanding about social conditioning and what leads to social patterns. I would like to see the data that shows that most women in their thirties are alone and miserable.

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Why is so many partners, and particularly bad boys, such a bad thing for a woman searching for a husband? Because the 90% of men who are not Alpha males (the sexy bad boys who can have almost any woman in their social circle) know fairly well that the most intense bonds, shared experiences, sexual pleasure, and memories will be with other men. At best, they are mere shadows of what was, and remains, in a woman's heart, at that age. Even the most beautiful woman in her thirties is less desirable therefore than a fairly inexperienced, un-baggage ridden average looking girl in her early twenties, or late teens. All the Botox, Pilates, Jillian Michaels workout videos, and Nautilus toned body won't change that fact. Only the most desperate, clueless, and lonely men will respond.
Gobsmacked by the obvious bitterness and twisted writings of this blogger/ poster.
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This is true even for widows and divorced women. The absent husband, no matter how badly he left, will always be the dominant man in the woman's heart and memories. Porn has the massive ability to substitute for what amounts to indifferent sex (even the most beautiful woman in her thirties loses her appeal, and lets face it Jane Average is not Jennifer Aniston at age 32) and emotionless coupling.
if men would choose porn over real women, then men are the ones with huge problems and it shows that its not in fact women liking bad boys thats the problem it is in fact mens inibility to relate to and love the r4eal women in their lives. How sad.

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All the "man up" exhortations by writers like Kay Hymowitz can't force men to commit to women after they've chased their share of bad boys. Women can chase the bad boys all they want, but like everything, there is a cost.


Yes, it is true, about 90% of all middle class White guys are beta males. They are not sexy and exciting. They are neither bad boys in the mold of Russell Brand, nor George Clooney. News flash: About 90% of all Middle Class White women are not Jennifer Aniston, at age 40. Let alone beauties like Mila Kunis, or Brittany Snow. Asking about 90% of men to be something they are not is akin to asking 90% of all middle class White women to as beautiful as say, either ****** Greene or Brittany Snow (to pick at random two Maxim cover-girls). Women's desire for sexy men is an unreasonable as men's desire for most women to look like Maxim cover-girls.
telling men they shouldnt be doormats is not quite the same as expecting women to be perfect never changing beauty queens. men and women have the ability to change their behaviours and do things that will benafit them.
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But women can make it, because they unlike most men have the asymmetric ability to sleep with the male equivalent of Brittany Snow (that would be the Russell Brands of the world). They just can't get those bad boys to marry them and support them.

The dynamic is complicated by both gender and racial spoils politics. A good part of the female demand for sexy men is the Hispanic/Mexican girls desire and willingness to start having kids at age 16 with bad boys who cannot support them. Thus inducing a massive welfare burden. A full 83% of Santa Ana Unified School District students receive subsidized/free meals. Obviously about 83%, or so, of SAUSD parents cannot afford to pay for their kids meals. Requiring federal subsidies.
Yep all the women's fault, nothing to do with society and social conditioning, opportunity, poverty or in fact the men involved. If you have a vagina you clearly deluded, and the ills of the world fall on your shoulders, oh whoops I forgot to add if you are black or Hispanic or poor you also contributed some too.

Those white guys are the innocent victims of vaginas and poor people gone mad.

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In this, both White women, and non-Whites, are generally aligned in interests. Their interests are in extracting the maximum amount of money from taxpayers, to fuel children (family as defined as single mom plus kids by various sexy bad boys) and family formation. The catch is that a very significant portion (most of them, in fact) of Middle Class White women are also taxpayers, and don't like the money going to people not like them. Welfare for Hispanic/Mexican single mothers, means ultimately no subsidies for NPR (and jobs there), or federally supported foundations, or paper-pushing "studies" busywork in education, the environment, and so on. All the money increasingly needs to be poured into either K-12 or welfare spent on Mexican/Hispanic single mothers.

So what are the implications of the widespread female demand that most men be sexy (clearly most Mexican men are "sexy" to their female peers, mostly by an uber-macho, combative set of behaviors, particularly including gang membership and criminal violence)?

The first is obviously, a decline in technological advancement. Clearly, outsourcing, in-sourcing, and the export of American manufacturing to China and elsewhere has destroyed American innovation. But in part, this has been abetted by the total demand for sexiness. While nearly all of Aaron Sorkin's "the Social Network" was outright fabrication, what rang true was the total lack of desire (then and now) for billionaire Mark Zuckerberg. Particularly for women with their own money, and earning power, a man must be sexy beyond mere wealth. Wealth alone will not cut it, hence the lack of desire expressed for beta males like Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, no matter how much power and influence they wield. Neither has the smidgen of sex appeal of say, Lamar Odom or Chris Brown. [Good Morning America wants Chris Brown back, despite his temper tantrum of ripping off his shirt and throwing a chair through a window, and trashing his dressing room there. Because their female audience finds him sexy, no matter the beat-down he gave then girlfriend Rihanna. He's a BAD BOY. That means, sexy. For women, in general, all is forgiven as long as a man is sexy. Sexy, sexy, sexy.]

Facebook is not anything new. Its merely a Friendster or MySpace that works. With a few more features. It is not game-changing technology. Steve Sailer wondered, recently, where all the innovation went? "Where are my flying cars?" Well, they went the way of nuclear families formed by pocket protector wearing geeks. Those with that bent had few or no children, as women demanded sexy bad boys who are great in the sack, but cannot produce game-changing technology (like say, a cure for cancer or artificial organs that work, or electric car batteries with the power and weight ratio and range of the internal combustion engine, with comparable refill times). Add to it, the lack of incentive to strive. Those with the current bent for technology not only face a bleak outsourcing, in-sourcing H1-B visa environment, they face a life of sexless monkdom. No wonder they are slackers.

Innovation and change is rarely produced by some great idea borne out by a single genius. Most of the time, it requires an idea, that was fascinating, that was dropped, and then developed a bit later, by someone else, and then someone else and other people put it and other bits together to form a new whole. Something impossible without all the other bits around, done by other people, often in concert.

Sexy men means stagnant or reversing technology. People unable to build or maintain things they were fifty years ago. In 1969, America reached the moon. America has now abandoned even low Earth orbit. Not the least of which is that we lack the technology to make even that happen any more.

Sexy men also means a race to the bottom for sexiness. Women's demand for sexy men does not happen in a vacuum. Men tend to respond. The easiest way to be sexy, as noted by author Lucia, is to thug it up. Be dangerous, fight a lot, smack people around (even your girlfriend, see Chris Brown, or Charlie Sheen). The more violent and dangerous a man is, the more women will want him. Even if he's ugly, or is accused of murdering some other woman. Joran Van Der Sloot cut a wide swath among women in Asia, drawn by his infamy in the Natalee Holloway case (Van Der Sloot has all but confessed to murdering Holloway). Of course, Van Der Sloot killed a young woman in Peru, who unwisely went to his hotel room, drawn by his fame no doubt.

One need only look at the Ghetto and Barrio to see this in action. "Senseless" killings are not, merely the dark side of female sexuality. Since women find bad boys to be sexy, Ghetto and Barrio men make themselves bad boys by ultra-violence. When some little kid, or grandmother, or infant is shot in a drive-by, be assured that somewhere, a gang banger is having sex (if he's not arrested). As Roissy points out, even adjusting for race, criminals have more kids than non-criminals. In other words, comparing White guys to White guys, and Black guys to Black guys, and so on, those locked up or who have been locked up have more kids than those who were never locked up. Despite being, well, locked up for some non insignificant amount of time.

As Roissy points out, Chicks Dig Jerks. And as more and more men become aware of this, they will do their level best to turn themselves into the biggest jerk they can. Bet on it. And once they know it, it is almost impossible to turn them back.

Look at Black Rappers. They make all that money. All that fame and fortune. Or say, Michael Vick, at the time possessing a $130 million contract. Why risk all that money for stupid violence, a shooting in a club, dog fighting rings, etc? Because acting like a violent thug all their life has gotten them the hottest, most desirable women. And more women than they can even remember. Sexual rewards will work on the White middle class, and its men, just as much as they did on Black men in the Ghetto. Or Mexican men in the Barrio.

No, it won't happen overnight. Significant social conditioning, rewards, and so on make middle class White guys more resistant to violence. But certainly, the kids of single mothers will know exactly what turned their moms on: violent, dangerous bad boys. They'll copy those guys, and even provide some "improvements."

The idea that White guys are inherently non-violent and shrink from confrontation (which would have shocked Black and Hispanic men of Louis Armstrong's age) particularly with non-Whites, is going to go out the window. In some respect this will be long overdue, but the cost is basically a nation comprised entirely of Scots-Irish "hillbilly" types. Which simply cannot run a modern economy and will look for fights the way Black and Hispanic men do, because it gets them sex!

So the social implications of sexy men demanded by White women along with Black and Hispanic women, is a very rapid movement, towards decline and violence. Making the wealth struggles to cut the welfare pie off an America with declining innovation and technological power, a declining White middle class, and so on, even more desperate. As the take shrinks, the usual response is to deal people out. Vote them off the Island, so to speak.

All prosperous societies, such as Japan, South Korea, Finland, Switzerland, and Coastal China, tend to suppress sexy men. They tend to limit, in various ways, the ability for Bad Boys to dominate all the desirable women. And on the other hand, limit women's choices. A woman must generally choose fairly early, if she wants a husband (Japan and South Korea's and China's low birth rates currently likely stem from their women rejecting the unsexy men they have on offer). Japan and South Korea, at least, are declining from massive and probably unsustainable population peaks with a well educated and prosperous workforce, with first-class infrastructure for the most part. [China is not so lucky on either front.]

But those societies throughout history and now, that allow sexy men, the dominant bad boys, and women to run things, are typically very violent, and primitive. Male cooperation goes entirely out the window. Why cooperate when you get better sex and reproductive opportunities by constant fighting? The female sexual utopia looks a lot like Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. And in some ways that is America's, and the West's, future.

Everything has its price, and the price for Sexy Men for Western women is basically the end as we know it, of Western civilization. With something approaching Dark Ages kingdoms or Mad Max as its replacement.

But at least the men will be sexy!
The bitter, racist, prejudice misguided ramblings of a crazy, deluded, person who has no understanding of social systems and relationships.

They will probably continue to write such utter hate filled nonsense and no sane woman will them because they are loony tunes thus fueling further their beliefs and crazy ramblings.

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Old 06-11-2011, 07:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Love it Enchantment, Love it ! As for me, I seriously prefer the Nice MUSHY guy over any alpha stud bad boy - so long as he has 2 things - he is physically good looking and he LOVES sex!

I am an alpha female and for the life of me, there is something to this .... I have always liked men with bare chests (usually means less testosterone = less aggression) & always had a thing for SHY guys. I married exactly this and it works beautifully for us. Pretty much for most of our marriage, although we had some things we learned along the way , don't we all.

And the crazy thing about him is --he likes aggressive women! A bad boy may be good in bed, but beyond that, I think we would kill each other. I am perfectly matched with my husband, the more I read on this forum, the more I realize this.

He is the introvert, I am the extrovert. Where I bring the Oooompph , he brings the calm, he humors me where I cause some playful conflict. Not all women are the same, not all men are the same.

Yes, we all need a nice balance, but even if the scales are tipped a little more one way or the other (His more Beta, mine more alpha), it does not make him less of a good man or me less of a good woman. So long as we can appreciate & celebrate the best in one another, and oh we do -this is life giving.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's hard for my ADD brain to absorb all of that blog. However, I do find parts of it interesting. Now that I'm a single woman, I'm finding this to be very true though. A recent thread, Question for the ladies...Beards?, on this forum really illustrated this point. Most women really go for that "bad boy" look. I feel I am in the minority. I can't stand that look (or male type)! Yet, that's who's hitting on me here at my age.

I've yet to figure how this works, so this discussion should be enlightening.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Wow, this post actually brought me back, this blog has said what I've been suspecting all along. Think he's wrong? Take a look at the men in the "Coping With Infidelity" section and ask them why their wives suddenly hate them after all these years.

The only things I found wrong is the things that he said about "Nice Guys." I know nice guys that will beat the **** out of you, me especially, we just try not to due to the hassle it brings because we think about what will happen afterwards.

Another thing that I believe is that women don't really like "thugs/bad boys" because those are the guys in prison for things like assault with a deadly weapon, armed robbery, murder. Getting popped for possession of weed does not make you a tough guy.

You know what's to blame for this, right? Feminism.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You know what's to blame for this, right? Feminism.
Really? You mean there really aren't any good, upstanding, confident men who can stand up for what they believe, what they know, is right? They really are whipped then, which I guess according to this article means they aren't sexy after all.

You know what is to blame - lack of personal responsibility and integrity. People should not go blaming everybody else or issues or topics of the day for their troubles. Look within yourself. No one has to swim along with all of the other fish.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't think it true. I think it is a media contrivance to sell paper and increase viewership.

I don't know of any women who likes so called bad boys in fact, women try to detect these men and avoid them. It is sensational to report a few women making stupid choices but it is not the norm in my opinion. Normal women are too boring to turn into a news report.

I'm married to a nice man, he does not drink, take drugs, go out every Sat night drinking, he does not abuse me, he is very salicitous of me and our kids, he is predictable. He is dominant but in a good way because that is what I need. I am no fool, why would I not love him like my own life.

woman with low self esteem like abusive men and they need help not labeling and shamming. They are a product of childhood abuse. That in itself should garner a desire to help not blaming feminism. Blaming feminism misdirects efforts to prevent child abuse and treatmen of there women.

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Misguided how do you explain male cheating and suddenly hating their wives. It it because men hate good women? Thongs have changed I agree. Women are cheating almost as frequently as men. They have as much access to members of the opposite sex.

That's why they cheat just like men. It is a human malady, a cruelty that men and women are equaly as capable of. Until recently I believed that only men cheat but I now realize by reading the post by men in pain that women are as capable of deceit and selfishness and lack of love as men. I thought men were by nature incapable of love. If men are then women are too. I know women are capable of love and I now know that men are equaly as capable.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Really? You mean there really aren't any good, upstanding, confident men who can stand up for what they believe, what they know, is right? They really are whipped then, which I guess according to this article means they aren't sexy after all.
Yes, there are men out there like that but they get demonized by feminists and hammered down by their enforcing thugs also known as the government until the man has become a mangina faithfully serving the whims of his gynocratic masters. Feminists want men to have all of the responsiblity and none of the authority, that's called being a pawn and the manginas that allow this to happen to themselves especially with believing this Alpha/Beta Male bull**** are nothing more than fodder. I used to be like this, I was caught in feminism's "matrix" until I found my "red pill" in the Coping With Infidelity Section. What's wrong with being a nice person? What's wrong with looking out for my fellow human being? That's what a good man is does, a man protects and provides like the men that fought for civil rights or fought against Hitler. Women think they can change those bad boys but they never will, those guys don't want to be husbands and fathers but good men do. They say this stupid **** like an "alpha male" looks like he can take care of his children and a "beta male" doesn't. The truth is that a man is designed to take care of his kids which is why the average single man doesn't look like he can because he doesn't have children. Men tend to become physically stronger when they have children, where I'm from it's called "Daddy Strong." But it's those good men that get cheated on and the woman files a "No Fault Divorce" and takes half his ****. If he has kids, even if they aren't his like her having a child with the OM, he'll be enslaved to pay child support with the court knowing full well that the child isn't his. You people keep talking about boundaries that can't be kept in a relationship by a man because men have little to no rights in the family courts today. What about other things like the fact that there are just as many "false rape" allegations as there are actual rapes if not more thanks to feminists? It doesn't really matter since these bogus "rape shield" laws that are extremely unconstitutional as well as child support and alimony make it nigh impossible for a man to prove his innocence in court since he can't face his accuser.

I believe in love, as Leonard Cohen sang, "Love is the only engine of survival" but feminism has ruined the sanctity of marriage far more than anything today seeing as it makes women believe that they can have it all and just quit the marriage if they don't while still enslaving their unwitting husbands to alimony and child support and it's crushed by dreams of raising a family in the near future, if that's your idea of equality for women then bravo. Any of you men out there that would like to hear about any of the things I've said, PM me and I'll give you some links to a lot of great websites.

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You know what is to blame - lack of personal responsibility and integrity. People should not go blaming everybody else or issues or topics of the day for their troubles. Look within yourself. No one has to swim along with all of the other fish.

You're right, there is a lot of lack of personal responsiblity in women today. If a man marries a woman, he loves and trusts her, he looks to her for support when he goes out and tries to do what's best for the both of them and instead she ****s around while he's out then blames him. I'm tired of everytime someone gets cheated on in the Infidelity thread, they're told to take a look at what they did, they were the ones that got cheated on, why should they be changing? If a woman wants a bad boy then go after bad boys, don't go after a good man that's trusting just to **** up his life like you did yours. You're right again, there is no reason to swim along with all of the other fish, that's why I'm walking my own way away from this moral leper colony that feminism has turned western culture into.

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Misguided how do you explain male cheating and suddenly hating their wives. It it because men hate good women? Thongs have changed I agree. Women are cheating almost as frequently as men. They have as much access to members of the opposite sex.

That's why they cheat just like men. It is a human malady, a cruelty that men and women are equaly as capable of. Until recently I believed that only men cheat but I now realize by reading the post by men in pain that women are as capable of deceit and selfishness and lack of love as men. I thought men were by nature incapable of love. If men are then women are too. I know women are capable of love and I now know that men are equaly as capable.
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Don't misunderstand, there are ****ed up men out there too but, when a man does it, the man gets sent to the gallows, when a woman does it, the man gets pushed to the front of the line for the gallows. Women have the government and family courts backing them up whether they're right or wrong, that's the biggist issue.

Also, if you're marriage is good, do everything in your power to keep it that way.

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I am confused by all these too!

I think my husband is a nice man, and I love him dearly.

He doesn't smoke, he doesn't drink much alcohol, he doesn't take drugs, he doesn't like parties, he avoids men who do these things, he avoids men who talk big. He is gentle to me, he is affectionate to me, he babies me! He is also flirty and humorous. He has a normal job, makes modest salary, I don't see that as a problem.

The only thing he doesn't do is he doesn't spoil me, he confronts me when I am being unreasonable. He doesn't avoid conflicts caused by me.

If nice guy means " Yes Yes Madam", then I probably agree!


By the way, I didn't think I was old when I was 29! I actually felt that I started to blossom when I was 29, my most beautiful age was from 29 to 38. Now I am 38, I start to notice that my face is not as shiny as before, my skin is not as good as before. But my husband has told me that my brain has become much more beautiful inside, don't need to feel bad for the appearance loss. A 20-year-old might have a better face, a better body, but not a better brain.

Men who are just after bodies and faces are not the type of men mature women want!

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Old 06-11-2011, 09:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Misguided I don't think that the LS is blamed for the WS. The advice is consistently tge the WS 100% the blame for cheating.

I do notice that men are far more likely to assume the blame for a wife cheating before recognizing the role of their wives. I think it is because, as you say, normal men feel responsible for the safety and happiness of their wives. They are accustomed to sacrificing to provide for the family - it is a drive of a man when he commits. They continue this trend when their wives cheat because the commitment is so strong. Their post illicits immediate advice for these men to drop their sacrificial and protective role and take charge to save their family from ruin.

I don't think the advice to Man Up is because they are too good, they are good men who need to be guided into a new approach to meet the challeges that face them.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Misguided believe me I know how lucky I am. My needs are amply satisfied. I am married to a family man and I am a professional and work full time but I relax into my role as a caretaker when I am at home. I can handle the stress of 24/7 executive attitude. That just me. But I think many women are like me, they want to be led, not all but many.

Women are different and i believe it is our hormonal influences. I think we should celebrate those differences. I do believe that in our zeal to have it all, we may forget to be feminine. But I think you can find a lot of liturature about this being a mistake.

I think it is changing for young married couples today. We realize the mistakes of our families before us. Don't fall into a lack of hope and blindness to this reality. If you do, you will experience what you believe. Avoid blogs that are negative, look for blogs and reports that advise and report positive change in relationship. That's what you will draw to you.

Try to calm down, it is not as bad as you think. Reading negative things only fuels your anger. My therapist gave me that advice so i pass it on to you. There is so much good in the world, why should you not emerse yourself in it?

I know many good women, I can't be unusual. They are out there and if you stay positive, you will meet not one but many if you are at the point of looking. You may not be ready to allow your anger to dissipate. Do what you can to hassen your progress so that you will again see tge good side of women.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Women hating Nice Guys, the end of civilization?

I do realize that blog seems to be steeped in racism, and analyzes a few generalizations a little too far, but as a nice guy who has been loving and failing a hormonal and self-guided wife, it definitely hits very close for me, as she just left my sorry white @$$ to go after some sweet-talking gangsta fakers - I've seen the pics and they're not even what most would call "hot" (just happen to have the sexier skin color in my wife's eyes, and have enough come-on for her to associate with confidence/swagger).
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