Your wife is a responsible adult. You've known her for eight years. She's perfectly capable of going to see male strippers or securing any other form of male attention whenever it suits her. She apparently decided to marry you instead. She was invited to a bachelorette party and for whatever reason, she accepted the invitation. The sorts of foolishness you described, whether they are your cup of tea or not, are typical of bachelorette parties. If you are invited to a bachelor party, you won't be playing checkers there. Let your wife be an adult and trust that she will be a responsible and faithful one. If her devotion for you isn't enough to keep her from straying too far, any commandments you hand down from the mount won't help, either. She got in the mood and then she brought it home to you. If you have the number of that stripper, I'd like to send my wife to see him.
Really? It is ok for her to secure whatever male attention her little heart desires and he should accept it. LOL. UFB. In an open marriage I agree.
You see, this is my problem. It is not faithful of her to have a male stripper rubbing his genitalia on her, or for her to come home horny, waking me up.
Faithfulness is more than simply physical contact. It involves psychological aspects as well.
Is there some reason why you fail to address the facts that she lied through her teeth to me regarding this incident, and that she went to this incident knowing full well that I did not approve?
This notion of people being able to go see strippers is not some thing that every one agrees upon as a matter of values. Clearly, your values differ from mine. This issue at hand here is not what you think is okay, but what I think is okay, as I am her husband and your standards are not my standards.
Don't treat me as if I'm naive about those parties either. I find your tone condescending and non-productive.
This is not being faithful. You are correct. The key here is that before she went to this party you should have agreed upon boundaries. In fact before you were married. That said, who even thinks their wife is going to go out of thier way to have a guy rub his c0ck on her. F'd up sir. BUT it seems many women today are cake eaters. They want their husband to be faithful but they wish to play with other men.
Faithful married folks do not lie to each other.
Faithful married folks do not have members of the opposite sex rub their genitals on them.
Faithful married folks do not behave in way their SO would object to.
Faithful married folks do not act in a single manner.
Faithful married folks do not disrespect their SO.
Faithful married folks do not do the others things that you are yet to discover.
We are not talking about "seeing" strippers. Male strippers interact in sexual ways with thier clients. In a club it is bad enough. Private parties are again just a form of sex party. Anything goes. How far is only up to the "ladies". It is not just up to how much cash they want to spend. Many strippers will gladly perform sexual favors for women they like.
Men or women who do this type of stuff are playing just the tip.
I think you are WAY over reacting. It was a bachelorette party, not a swingers party. Yes, the male rubbed his junk on her, but these strippers are working for tips-they will pull out all stops. Of course your W didn't leave-nobody wants to bee seen as the buzzkill at these things. If it were a bachelor party, and a stripper showed up, would you have the nerve to walk out?
This was a private party. Not at a club. Buzzkill or not she participated in this activity. She knew up front she was going to do this. The intention of this type of peer pressure is to blast through marital boundaries with an excuse. Gee hon we all banged the stripper. I did not want to seem like a wuss and kill the buzz we were all having. So it is ok.
Who knows why she decided to attend, loyalty to a friend, curiousity, wanted a night on the town, something missing sexually between the two of you and she wanted to take in the show. Any of these things or more. But, the only pertinent fact is that she did attend and she clearly wanted to attend. As for faithfulness, the fact that something or someone other than you turned her on is not infidelity. Do you really want control over what she thinks, or at least have the right to approve or disapprove of her thoughts? Look at it like this, she could have picked up a guy at the club or gotten down with the stripper, but she didn't. She came home and wanted to get on with you!
But, you made it clear that you stayed home and stewed about her going the entire time. What type of life is that for your wife? I'm not talking about values either, I'm just talking about the freedom of thought and expression.
As for her lying about it or being less than forthcoming I can think of a couple reasons. One, that might be her nature where she's just not comfortable talking (with you) about things that interest her that she fears won't interest you. Two, along a similar line, judging (albeit its a very short sample) by what you've written she might be afraid of being open with you for fear of either your rejection or your rebuke.
Lastly, and please take this with all due respect, but you sound like a pompous academic that is so convinced by his own thoughts and beliefs that he can't seem to find any level of acceptance for anyone else's, including his wife's. What person comes to an advice forum, asks for help, and then arrogantly rejects a stranger's advice because "I find your tone condescending and non-productive"? Again, respectfully, you seem to be here for no other reason than to have your anger, mistrust, and reasoning validated by others rather than seriously looking for a way to help or improve your relationship with your wife.
Go back and re-read your first two post and analyze yourself. To me, you sound extremely rigid, close-minded, and controlling. Your wife is probably the least of your problems in your relationship. Just my two cents.
She did not go to a "show". It was not becasue she was turned on. She was part of the show and acted out sexual activities with a male prosititute ( stripper ).
You know there is a difference between a guy looking at a stripper .... a show and going into the VIP with the stripper for sexual favors. In these private parties the strippers may or may not take the women to the bedroom or to the restroom. Very often they just get it on in front of the other women with a lot of hollering and whooping and you go girl.
Who knows why she decided to attend, loyalty to a friend, curiousity, wanted a night on the town, something missing sexually between the two of you and she wanted to take in the show. Any of these things or more. But, the only pertinent fact is that she did attend and she clearly wanted to attend.
This is obvious. I already stated as much to her. IMHO she wanted to see a muscle bound model dancing around naked. This is by definition infidelity. Look up the definition. It is unfaithfulness and disloyalty to me, some one she pledged herself to not 2 months ago.
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Originally Posted by piqued
As for faithfulness, the fact that something or someone other than you turned her on is not infidelity.
Yes it is infidelity. Becoming sexually, physiologically aroused by others is a lack of faithfulness. Please read the dictionary definitions for these words as you are mistaken.
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Originally Posted by piqued
Do you really want control over what she thinks, or at least have the right to approve or disapprove of her thoughts?
Apparently there is this problem with some people on this forum who perceive boundaries as those with the boundaries wanting to control others. If some one steps close to your face speaking to you are you controlling for wanting them to give you space? If two people pledge faithfulness to one another is it controlling to desire an adherence of that pledge of faithfulness? The thing is, if she honestly wants to hold the values that she claimed (and she wasn't just saying so to make herself not sound like a hypocrite) then that's fine. We split up and I go on my way. What precisely is it that makes you think that I desire to control what she thinks? She made an oath, I would appreciate it if she held to it. If you contract some one to do some construction for you, would you be controlling if you requested that they adhere to the contract?
What's so complicated about this?
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Originally Posted by piqued
Look at it like this, she could have picked up a guy at the club or gotten down with the stripper, but she didn't. She came home and wanted to get on with you!
No. You see, I'm not desperate, nor do I seek sloppy seconds, or to be the guy she comes home to bang. I understand that the average male apparently will take what ever they can get, but I'm not interested in what ever I can get. I want a functional, honest relationship; something in small supply these days, as demonstrated in numerous posts thus far.
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Originally Posted by piqued
But, you made it clear that you stayed home and stewed about her going the entire time. What type of life is that for your wife? I'm not talking about values either, I'm just talking about the freedom of thought and expression.
What's the problem? She wasn't physically present to observe my disgust with her decision. I fail to see your point. Can you expand upon what you mean by freedom of thought and expression and how my ire with her behavior, a married woman, are at odds?
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Originally Posted by piqued
As for her lying about it or being less than forthcoming I can think of a couple reasons. One, that might be her nature where she's just not comfortable talking (with you) about things that interest her that she fears won't interest you. Two, along a similar line, judging (albeit its a very short sample) by what you've written she might be afraid of being open with you for fear of either your rejection or your rebuke.
The motivations for her lying aren't a mystery. She didn't want me knowing what she did because she knew I would not approve of some stranger rubbing his genitals across her. My concern with the lying is that it is at odds with faithfulness and loyalty, which is what we pledged ourselves to in marriage.
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Originally Posted by piqued
Lastly, and please take this with all due respect, but you sound like a pompous academic that is so convinced by his own thoughts and beliefs that he can't seem to find any level of acceptance for anyone else's, including his wife's.
In what way do ad hominem attacks upon my character provide productive feedback? I'm not interested in your loose values or the loose values of any one else on here. In fact, I didn't expect so many with loose values on here and perhaps I should have requested that those with loose values keep them to themselves as I am not seeking feedback from such. Now in retort, how can I accept the thoughts or beliefs from her, if she does not share them until after she has done something I disapprove of? When I express an attitude on something to her, then it's her turn to express her attitude, especially if it differs. If she is not willing to be open about her attitudes with me, especially when they differ, then that sets up both parties for problems.
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Originally Posted by piqued
What person comes to an advice forum, asks for help, and then arrogantly rejects a stranger's advice because "I find your tone condescending and non-productive"?
Look at what I posted. I did not ask for help. I asked for feed back. So I'm getting feedback, and I'm rejecting some of it. What's the problem? Didn't you just earlier state that I should be open to freedom of expression? Maybe you should be open to my freedom of expression and not attack me simply because I disagree with what others have said, and in a condescending manner at that (ie: any commandments you hand down from the mount won't help, either).
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Originally Posted by piqued
Again, respectfully, you seem to be here for no other reason than to have your anger, mistrust, and reasoning validated by others rather than seriously looking for a way to help or improve your relationship with your wife.
I was actually interested in getting feedback from people on here as I thought their values might be similar. From what I've read searching through other threads, there are absolutely others who share my attitude on this topic, but that have not posted here. Rather than having some one regurgitate my own viewpoints, I was hoping, that those who share similar values, would chime in with their own feedback on the issue. There's plenty of others with the same values who have gone through such experiences and that's who I thought I would hear from. But it appears that there's far more with loose values on here. Can I help it if your values are not the same as mine? No.
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Originally Posted by piqued
Go back and re-read your first two post and analyze yourself. To me, you sound extremely rigid, close-minded, and controlling. Your wife is probably the least of your problems in your relationship. Just my two cents.
Maybe you're right. Maybe I should encourage my wife to go out on girls night out, get intoxicated, dress to kill, potentially have the occasional stripper rub his meat against her, and giddily wait for her to return home, all ready for action. Thanks for recommending that reread my posts. Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking when those gems were presented to me.
My values were made clear. As an adult, aware of my values, she selected not to end her evening after dinner out, or clubbing (she even texted me saying it wasn't her scene at the club, and I texted back, facetiously, that it sounded like great fun for "married women"). I'm not going to physically restrict her, and factually speaking, it would be better to be in this situation where I question if the relationship should continue, than to be physically controlling, as that merely leads to resentment.
Would it be alpha enough to give her a thorough beating when I next see her, or has the moment passed? (yes I'm being facetious again...)
It is actually pretty easy to draw the line. It is not about you physically restraining anyone. It is not about controlling anyone.
You simply state that this activity is not acceptable to you in your marriage.
I think it very telling that now you are married she feels free to be single again.
Me, if I had been married for two months .... and I found my wife lying and doing things she knew I found unaccecptable ... I would probably not continue on. The fact that she sadi you did not need to know what she did would be a deal breaker for me. The attitude and lying would be the biggest part but frankly you have no idea what she actually did. You know at least she lied, disrespected you and has a guy rub his c0ck on her. That she was expecting BTW. This was not some being caught by surprise thing. For me if my wife wants another mans c0ck she can have it. I just will not be her husbanded and would get no kick from being cuckolded.
No kids ... right? If you do have kids in the furture with her make sure they are yours.
I don't say that to be offensive or disrespectful. If she is going to frequent these typ of things there is a real reason to be concerned especially with her lying about it and not wanting you to know what she did.
how do you know she didnt?
then guilt sex?
she lied about everything else.
i would have locked her out until later in the day.
they just got married.
she already knew how he felt about these issues.
she chose to still marry him.
complete disrespect in my eyes.
Wow, some one who shares similar values. Thanks for responding. Would you care to give me more feed back regarding this? I've known her for 8 years and can read her exceptionally well. I very highly doubt she's ever had sex or done any thing else like that since we started dating. She really has been a gem up to this point.
I've got this problem of an additional reception on the east coast for my family in a month. I feel like I should cancel it until we work things out and either decide to work on this together, or go our separate ways. We still haven't cashed all of the gift checks from the reception on the west coast here and it's a head ache at the moment. I know that we need to talk things through but if she thinks I'm the best she can do and that's her reason for sticking with me, then she's clearly not going to be motivated to leave me or respect me. That's really one of the major issues of concern here. I've got no problem leaving her. It's a heart break, but after you've gone through one you learn to move on and try to learn from the previous good and bad experiences...
Really doesn't matter what the OP's morals allow or don't allow because he wasn't in attendance. If he doesn't like genitals rubbed on his back, he doesn't have to attend. An individual cannot dictate another person's moral standards. Whatever occured apparently didn't break any laws, so it didn't violate society's moral standard. His wife's moral standards are between her and God. He can make his position known to her but in the end, he must accept her (along with her morals) or reject both.
I have no desire to see strippers and I haven't felt the need to attend a bachelor party that included them. That's part of my own personal morality, I suppose. However, my personal morals also hold that I don't own any other human being nor do I have the right to demand that they adhere to my personal moral standards. The song of freedom often sounds condoscending, offensive, objectionable, or unproductive.
His wife fornicating with twenty men would not break any laws.
Should he be ok with that?
Indeed marriage 2.0 legally says nothing about fidelity. It has to be policed with pre-nups and reasonable trustworthy people making vows to one another. Of course these vows are not legally binding any more. Progress.
It is even legal to murder your child if there is reasonable doubt.
He is well within in his rights to refuse to be married to a woman who behaves this way. That is within the law.
Wow, some one who shares similar values. Thanks for responding. Would you care to give me more feed back regarding this? I've known her for 8 years and can read her exceptionally well. I very highly doubt she's ever had sex or done any thing else like that since we started dating. She really has been a gem up to this point.
I've got this problem of an additional reception on the east coast for my family in a month. I feel like I should cancel it until we work things out and either decide to work on this together, or go our separate ways. We still haven't cashed all of the gift checks from the reception on the west coast here and it's a head ache at the moment. I know that we need to talk things through but if she thinks I'm the best she can do and that's her reason for sticking with me, then she's clearly not going to be motivated to leave me or respect me. That's really one of the major issues of concern here. I've got no problem leaving her. It's a heart break, but after you've gone through one you learn to move on and try to learn from the previous good and bad experiences...
Use this. Maybe she will realize you are serious. How can one be married to someone who does not resepct them. It is unfortunate that she was one way for eight years and now wants to play with other men.
Geogirl was your mom ok with having sex with strippers? Or just short of penetration. Where is the line? Is there a line?
If my H went to a bachelor party and rubbed his face in some strippers boobies, I'd have a problem. If he lied - I'd have a bigger problem. I hold myself to same standards that I expect of him. Funny - people think it's disrespectful for a wife to joke about wanting to rub some guys bicept, think it's ok to have strange genitalia rubbed on them. Posted via Mobile Device
If my H went to a bachelor party and rubbed his face in some strippers boobies, I'd have a problem. If he lied - I'd have a bigger problem. I hold myself to same standards that I expect of him. Funny - people think it's disrespectful for a wife to joke about wanting to rub some guys bicept, think it's ok to have strange genitalia rubbed on them. Posted via Mobile Device
So you and I agree.
Who are you talking about?
I have the same boundaries as my wife.
FWIW rubbing face in boobies is not the same as a guy rubbing his junk on the wife, but you made a good point. I think lap dances are the equivalent.
Who knows why she decided to attend, loyalty to a friend, curiousity, wanted a night on the town, something missing sexually between the two of you and she wanted to take in the show. Any of these things or more. But, the only pertinent fact is that she did attend and she clearly wanted to attend. As for faithfulness, the fact that something or someone other than you turned her on is not infidelity. Do you really want control over what she thinks, or at least have the right to approve or disapprove of her thoughts? Look at it like this, she could have picked up a guy at the club or gotten down with the stripper, but she didn't. She came home and wanted to get on with you!
But, you made it clear that you stayed home and stewed about her going the entire time. What type of life is that for your wife? I'm not talking about values either, I'm just talking about the freedom of thought and expression.
As for her lying about it or being less than forthcoming I can think of a couple reasons. One, that might be her nature where she's just not comfortable talking (with you) about things that interest her that she fears won't interest you. Two, along a similar line, judging (albeit its a very short sample) by what you've written she might be afraid of being open with you for fear of either your rejection or your rebuke.
Lastly, and please take this with all due respect, but you sound like a pompous academic that is so convinced by his own thoughts and beliefs that he can't seem to find any level of acceptance for anyone else's, including his wife's. What person comes to an advice forum, asks for help, and then arrogantly rejects a stranger's advice because "I find your tone condescending and non-productive"? Again, respectfully, you seem to be here for no other reason than to have your anger, mistrust, and reasoning validated by others rather than seriously looking for a way to help or improve your relationship with your wife.
Go back and re-read your first two post and analyze yourself. To me, you sound extremely rigid, close-minded, and controlling. Your wife is probably the least of your problems in your relationship. Just my two cents.
Dude!!!! I just read your posts. You want your wife to lighten up and get onto chat sites and do webcam stuff.
It wasnt you, but there was a thread where a wife was commenting to her friend in front of H that she wanted to squeeze coaches bicepts to see if they were real. Everyone agreed it was rude and some even joked that he should comment he wants to motorboat some chicks hot hooties. It was that thread in general I was refering to. You and I agree. I don't know what I'd call it (cheating), but it is rude, disrespectful and dishonest! Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: Wife decided to go to a bachelorette party 
