This is so true. My wife has some issues she really needs to deal with. She has such unreasonable expectations re: what a marriage should be. She wants someone to take all of the stress off of her and treat her like a 10 year old girl.
She is looking to me to give balance to her life - when she needs to find balance for her self first. How can I possibly be successful in that scenario? It's literally all about her. The relationship has to focus on her needs and meeting them.
If she can't see that she needs to look inside herself and do the work and grow as a person, I can't continue on a path with her. I will sacrifice too much of myself in the process. I'm just not willing to do that anymore.
There's an immense amount of wisdom in your words. I can probably see that very much more than you can.
This is so true. My wife has some issues she really needs to deal with. She has such unreasonable expectations re: what a marriage should be. She wants someone to take all of the stress off of her and treat her like a 10 year old girl.
She is looking to me to give balance to her life - when she needs to find balance for her self first. How can I possibly be successful in that scenario? It's literally all about her. The relationship has to focus on her needs and meeting them.
If she can't see that she needs to look inside herself and do the work and grow as a person, I can't continue on a path with her. I will sacrifice too much of myself in the process. I'm just not willing to do that anymore.
Ha! This is what my wife wrote to my youngest son some 6 months after we’d separated. It went something like “He did a great deal to make me feel appreciated, wanted, loved and happy. He did a great deal more than me, I should have tried much harder than I ever did to make him feel appreciated, wanted and happy.”.
She wants someone to take all of the stress off of her and treat her like a 10 year old girl.
Many, many women marry a man, expecting him to replace her father; just as many men expect their wives to replace their mother (but usually in a more physical way, i.e. housework, etc.).
But I've seen lots of women WANT this...until they don't. Until they finally feel 'safe' being an adult and then bristle at the yolk of having a father figure judging them. And then they cheat, to prove he's not her dad. Sad, but common.
Many, many women marry a man, expecting him to replace her father; just as many men expect their wives to replace their mother (but usually in a more physical way, i.e. housework, etc.).
But I've seen lots of women WANT this...until they don't. Until they finally feel 'safe' being an adult and then bristle at the yolk of having a father figure judging them. And then they cheat, to prove he's not her dad. Sad, but common.
I think wanting a father figure is common and fine. Everyone wants to be taken care of. Wanting someone to decrease stress in your life and share the load is good. Even being taken care of like a child can be good too.
But there's a difference between wanting all of those things because you can't provide any of it for yourself and wanting someone to simply supplement what you bring to the table already.
Looking for someone else to PROVIDE the stability in your life is a losing proposing. With my caregiving tendencies i was totally set up to try to provide those things to my w.
I couldn't though. Partly b/c she changed the game all the time to continue to get me to seek validation from her and partly b/c you just are set up to fail in that construct.
All of this is about degrees. Women want strong men that act like a rock - that provide stability and direction. There's nothing wrong with that and that's the way it is.
It's also good to be a caregiver, but when you do it without regard to what you are getting out of the relationship - to your own detriment - it's a problem.
My goal right not is to work on re-gaining my power. I don't ever again want to put someone else's needs above my own. It causes too much pain. Looking for a partner with a reasonably good sense of self esteem is high on my list.
At this point my hopes for any reconciliation are fading - but that's I a mindset I'm embracing for the sake of just being healthy.
Our behaviour follows our “Golden Rules of Life”. Our golden rules are there to protect what it is we value and believe in. I value not being a thief? I have a rule “I do not steal”.
You are changing some of your Golden Rules of Life and therefore your behaviour is changing, as is what you valued and what you believed in. To keep on the path you’ve chosen you need good impulse control. Every time you feel an impulse to behave like you did in the past, to do something that would compromise a new Golden Rule, you just need to say no to that impulse and you are doing that very well. I used impulse control to stop smoking after 50 years, the worse time was the first 3 weeks. Six months later I dont even think about smoking unless I get a trigger like someone smoking next to me.
This is the way we develop new habits which protect our new Golden Rules which are there to protect what it is we value and what it is we believe in. The will power comes in saying no the next time we get the impulse to go back to an old habit, an old Golden Rule. And in this way we rebuild our dignity, self-belief, self-respect and self-esteem after they’ve been battered by one of our life’s downtimes. It takes some time but it's so very well worth it, there's a lot of return on investing in ourselves.
I think wanting a father figure is common and fine. Everyone wants to be taken care of. Wanting someone to decrease stress in your life and share the load is good. Even being taken care of like a child can be good too.
But there's a difference between wanting all of those things because you can't provide any of it for yourself and wanting someone to simply supplement what you bring to the table already.
Looking for someone else to PROVIDE the stability in your life is a losing proposing. With my caregiving tendencies i was totally set up to try to provide those things to my w.
I couldn't though. Partly b/c she changed the game all the time to continue to get me to seek validation from her and partly b/c you just are set up to fail in that construct.
All of this is about degrees. Women want strong men that act like a rock - that provide stability and direction. There's nothing wrong with that and that's the way it is.
It's also good to be a caregiver, but when you do it without regard to what you are getting out of the relationship - to your own detriment - it's a problem.
My goal right not is to work on re-gaining my power. I don't ever again want to put someone else's needs above my own. It causes too much pain. Looking for a partner with a reasonably good sense of self esteem is high on my list.
At this point my hopes for any reconciliation are fading - but that's I a mindset I'm embracing for the sake of just being healthy.
I've just worked my way through your posts up to this point, and I have a few comments:
1) reconciliation is not out of the question, even at this stage of the game. However, the two people who were in the relationship won't work -- both of you will have to change for it to work, and it sounds like she's a day late and a dollar short on that.
2) even if you haven't communicated with her, you can bet that this break-up is emotionally devastating her. I know, I've been in relationships with control freaks before, and they simply CANNOT STAND the fact that their relationship got out of their control. My guess? She can't find anything concrete to blame herself for, so she'll be lashing out at you. She won't be able to confide in you about how you're screwing up her life and her carefully-made plans, so she'll be chewing the ear off of one or more of her best female friends.
3) If you really want to demonstrate her lack of control over you (which will, at the same time, both frustrate and excite her), then call up her closest single female friend and invite her out for dinner. Just friendly, friend stuff, but it will certainly get back to her and up the ante on her own emotional journey. That could be a good thing or a bad thing, but it will likely get some stuff moving.
4) Next time you hear or read the word "selfish" come from her, politely tell her that you will be happy to re-engage in the conversation when she is willing to stop using that hurtful term.
5) you've mentioned repeatedly that you are "conflict avoidant." I've been there, and it usually stems from an irrational fear or an early childhood prohibition against hurting others or being hurt yourself. You want to fix this part of your life? Either go to IC for another decade and slowly emerge from your shell, or sack up and decide that you are going to change. Personally I'm a fan of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, not the sexual variation) which at its core stresses confronting those forces that master us head-on. In your case, you've been in a dominating relationship for so long you've probably forgotten what the sweet smell of testosterone in the morning can be like. If I were you, I would start pursuing forms of entertainment or pastimes which emphasize conflict, not avoid it. I'm not advocating professional wrestling or anything, but perhaps if you filled your personal mythology with examples of men who not only endure conflict, but seek it out so that they may competently deal with it. Think Conan, Batman, and James Bond, three icons of aggressive masculinity. Next time you're in a situation where she's trying to exercise control over you, even after you've moved out (and if it hasn't happened yet, it will) then channel a little Conan. What would the sword-slinging barbarian say when a wisp of silk and fluff told him that he was being "selfish"? I can guarantee it wouldn't be a thoughtful, well-reasoned response. So show her some of your inner Conan. Especially if its not the sort of thing she's used to. You'd be surprised how effective a sudden display of aggressive, non-violent behavior can be.
6) Run, don't walk, to Athol's outstanding website, Married Man Sex Life. Read it. Buy his book. Absorb his advice. He is the Yoda of how to deal with a wife, and even if the information doesn't help out in this relationship, it will in the next. And somehow I think that if you let your wife see a little of the different you, that will alter her perspective on you and the relationship significantly.
Actually, if she's not certifiably bat-sh!t nuts, you aren't in a bad position to consider a reconciliation eventually. You could even get the relationship you want, if you play your cards right. But not if you're willing to put up with her daily dose of crap, disrespect, and focus on you as the problem. You have to cut that out of your life entirely. You might have issues, but it's not your fault she can't manage one simple man in a relationship, and by Crom there's no reason why you should have to put up with that BS in any relationship.
Thanks for your comment and reading through this now very long post.
I think you are spot on. Reconciliation might work, but only if we both change.
I am committed to it (change)- devouring good books I can find on what I perceive as my issues, ramping up my IC and really, really trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm still doing the 180. It's been 2.5 weeks since I saw her last and 2 weeks since she texted me. The space has been good to clear my head. But I will be honest, it is incredibly difficult to not hear from her. I want to know she misses me and is hurting.
I cycle back and forth between missing her and wanting to reconcile and just not wanting to have anything to do with her again. I was in her home state over the weekend and it reminded me of trips we had taken together earlier this year (a couple of months ago).
The emotions were running high. My desire to contact her is low right now. I just couldn't handle talking to her. I think I would get way too emotional and needy.
We have no kids, we were not married very long and we are both relatively young. Moving on seems easy. If she is committed to seeing and working on her issues, then we have a chance. I just don't think she has the desire to do that - but I'm not sure since I'm not communicating with her. Everything is my fault.
I've been tempted to send her some books I've been reading to help her (or to show her that I am really trying to change), but I don't think I will do that. It breaks the 180 and puts me in a subservient position.
Thanks for your comment and reading through this now very long post.
I think you are spot on. Reconciliation might work, but only if we both change.
I am committed to it (change)- devouring good books I can find on what I perceive as my issues, ramping up my IC and really, really trying to get to the bottom of this. I'm still doing the 180. It's been 2.5 weeks since I saw her last and 2 weeks since she texted me. The space has been good to clear my head. But I will be honest, it is incredibly difficult to not hear from her. I want to know she misses me and is hurting.
I cycle back and forth between missing her and wanting to reconcile and just not wanting to have anything to do with her again. I was in her home state over the weekend and it reminded me of trips we had taken together earlier this year (a couple of months ago).
The emotions were running high. My desire to contact her is low right now. I just couldn't handle talking to her. I think I would get way too emotional and needy.
We have no kids, we were not married very long and we are both relatively young. Moving on seems easy. If she is committed to seeing and working on her issues, then we have a chance. I just don't think she has the desire to do that - but I'm not sure since I'm not communicating with her. Everything is my fault.
I've been tempted to send her some books I've been reading to help her (or to show her that I am really trying to change), but I don't think I will do that. It breaks the 180 and puts me in a subservient position.
Bigrascal, 2.5 weeks on your journey in your life is very much less than a blink of an eye. Very much less. I feel you are doing really well.
You are breaking your addiction. That is never a bad thing.
AFEH - Thanks. It feels like forever right now. You are right. It is an addiction. It feels like withdrawal. I was so used to the emotional ups and downs - the drama, the eggshells, the crazy making, the co-dpendency, the constant sh!t testing, the criticism.
The good moments when we seemed like we really could make it offered so much hope.
It's all gone now and there is such a void. As hard as living in the void is, it's better than the negativity, but it is hard to be without all of that stimulation.
I hope that she uses this time to really change and then we can reconcile and that she and I can be different. I can't imagine living life under the constant criticism and negativity again.
I think the void lasts a while, too long. And the temptation to fill it with the woman we know is huge. After nearly two years I still feel like going there. But I know that territory and I got seriously hurt. So I will not go back again. It does not have to be the same way for you and you know that.
I'm having issues with the 180. I have not had any contact with my w for 2.5 weeks (where she sent me a text). I have not seen her for 3 weeks.
She texted me last night and left a vm.
I used our joint account while out of state and she was asking me about it. Now, I will admit that I did this on purpose. I wanted her to see that I was out and about doing things. The charge was nominal.
I didn't really expect her to contact me, I just wanted her to know that I am the "man on the motorcycle."
So it's had its desired impact. I felt good that she communicated with me, though I haven't listened to the vm and probably will not.
When do you start communicating with your w while you are doing the 180? I mean there's really nothing for me to say to her right now. She may need some help with the mortgage and some expenses and I need to pick some things up from the house, but there isn't a rusk with most of it and it doesn't require a phone conversation.
My challenge is: how do you begin a process of possible reconciliation when you are not in contact? I guess the answer is that you cannot. The 180 helps you to de-couple and get back on track for yourself. But how does the w see that I am doing these things If I continue no contact?
I'm not sure that I want to reconcile right now, though. So perhaps the answer is to wait to return contact until I know what I want. I also think that a phone call right now would do more bad for me than good. My intent here is to look attractive and like I'm the man she fell in love with - not some miserable and spineless turnip.
Of course, this whole thing could be counterproductive as she had accused me of abandoning her - which this must really feel like.
Everything you say shouts out that you are not ready to see her. It wouldn't work anyway. You do the 180 to show her you don't NEED her, AND you do it to teach YOURSELF that you deserve better.
Focusing on her and what her reactions are and what she's thinking are NOT 180.
And it's not a trick to get her back. You don't go 180 and then extend an olive branch. You do it and get on with your life and IF she finds she misses and wants you, SHE can extend it, apologize for what she's done, and ask you what it would take for you to take her back.
Anything other than that is a false recovery and you will only get hurt again.
Everything you say shouts out that you are not ready to see her. It wouldn't work anyway. You do the 180 to show her you don't NEED her, AND you do it to teach YOURSELF that you deserve better.
Focusing on her and what her reactions are and what she's thinking are NOT 180.
And it's not a trick to get her back. You don't go 180 and then extend an olive branch. You do it and get on with your life and IF she finds she misses and wants you, SHE can extend it, apologize for what she's done, and ask you what it would take for you to take her back.
Anything other than that is a false recovery and you will only get hurt again.
If she's not pursuing you, you don't want her.
That's pretty much it.
If you MUST deal with her, then so be it. But all she is doing at this point is 'probing'. She hasn't changed a blessed thing. If anything she only wants to know when you will be so kind as to take your place and be her punching bag again ... and you know this. Don't do it. Or ... do it if for no other reason than to prove to yourself that she ISN'T going to invest herself in recovery.
As an added item ... there is nothing that says "I still have you..." like money. Split out the joint account. Separate is separate ... and despite her claims of abandonment ... this is what she wanted, as stated over and over again.
BR, I know my conditions for taking my wife back. I know EXACTLY what she has to do to get back into my life again. But I am not going to tell her what it is, far less actually ask her to do it. She has to come to these things of her own accord.
She will only ever get where she needs to be for me through a great deal of introspection and an understanding and acceptance of her side of the break-up of our marriage. That is she will not only have to discover and realise the part she played, but also she’ll have to own up to it and make apologies to me before I’d ever take her back.
I don’t actually hold out any hope whatsoever that these things will happen. Even though I’ve heard she thinks she made a mistake and she wants back with me.
Meanwhile I know I am happy without her and I know if I were to get back with her with no change deep inside herself I would again at some time in the future experience great sadness and possibly despair. She’ll never do that to me again and that’s why I NEED to see change within her before I’d take her back.
But there is absolutely no reason why you should not be totally honest and open with your wife about what you are doing and why you are doing it. Just write her a letter and tell her you do not need a response. Also there is no reason at all why you should not have “business dialogues”.
I think at some stage we learn to make our love conditional and it stops being an unconditional love. I think unconditional love is wrong and just opens us up for abuse. So maybe think on what your conditions are for you to love your wife again. These will be your golden values and golden rules, protected by your boundaries. So what are your personal boundaries to take your wife back into your life again?
Re: Is It Really That Bad? 
