Rhetoric that continues to push for a level of open marriage. There seems to be a fascination with this type of hypergamy scenario.
I think that some people are just flat bored. Toward the end of the video they discuss that sexuallity is spiritual. One argues yes, between a husband and wife but not random strangers.
Reality TV is entertainment. Things that are beyond the norm are entertaining but may or may not reflect a general reality. But I think there is a trend to mainstream similar behavior.
A wife who dresses ultra-sexy, sans undergarments and dresses to expose and impress in FM Pumps, who flirts, drinks dances, grinds, gropes, kisses and whatever with men not her husband are being unfaithful. People can draw their line where the unfaithfulness becomes cheating but things are light years beyond inappropriate.
There are husbands who enable this behavior because they like being cuckolded to one degree or another. Others are just so clueless or Beta they don't allow themselves to act.
So a man who asserts himself to keep the marriage from being open, is called jealous, insecure and controlling. Now why that should have any oimpact on a husband I don't know but it is very common for him to be barraged by this by relatives and friends. The you go girl mentality like in some way she has earned the right to be unfaithful for some reason. I guess we are talking princess here.
So wives behaving badly.
Oh and of course marriage is based on trust as opposed to love and faithfulness so he should never have a problem with any of this. It is ok for her to place just the tip.
I assumed he was being sarcastic about them having permission.
I'm sure plenty of marriages around here have been wrecked by well meaning Christians.
Yes I think they were being sarcastic. If not they should be. The women are asking permission for one thing and lying by omission as to what they are really doing. Their hubbys trust them.
I read the first link. I was surprised by how proud she was of grinding all over strangers. Pretty fu**ing twisted to me.
I wrote a post about GNOs and Toxic Friends a while back, and while I don't consider what the author said to be as bad as what I saw (and ofte see), its still not cool for me. But if the husband is okay, then its between them.
However, at no point did I ever believe, for a second, that the author has NEVER cheated on her husband. She has already blown past any boundaries of inappropriate behavior for a married woman (but thats just me, I'd have huge problems if my wife was grinding on other men and bragging about it).
I think that this article was more tame and toned down...Good luck to that husband, he is gonna need it.
I may have misread the first article. I thought she left the house and then in a very secretive manner changed into more provacative clothing. I did not get a sense that the husband really new what she was doing other than going out with her friends for a Girls Night Out. And of course this is the version of the story this person decided to write. How much is fiction?
That said, I agree tame as it goes. His ambivalence is her passport.
I need help with this. I came to these sites a couple of years ago to deal with this issue. I've been commenting when the subject came up and started a couple of threads. But my issue happened years ago, so I had to make it look like it was a current problem or people would think I'm nuts.
About 11 years into my relationship with my wife and 7 years into our marriage, our second child was weaned off the bottle. My wife hit Weight Watchers then hit the clubs. It was short lived; her and her wingwoman (always the same married friend) only went out about 7 or 8 times. I already know it was bad. From her first night out to the last: Not telling me she was going until she was out the door. No discussion after she came back. Any question after "how was your night"? (answer always - "fine") was portrayed as an interrogation. They were surely acting exactly like the ladies in that article.
It went from a twice a decade type activity to monthly to bi-weekly pretty quickly. She was setting up a special weekday night out that would have shortened the time between even more if it didn't end up in a big fight. I never told her she couldn't go any more, but the facade of a night of innocent dancing was blown so she knew it was over. That entire summer was miserable for me. Since she didn't tell me her plans, I had to go through all day Saturday with knots in my stomach wondering if this was going to be a party night. So even when she DIDN'T go out I was miserable.
Why did I allow it to go on? You all know the answer. How much of a P.U.S.S.Y was I having a problem with my wife showing a little independence? It's bad enough I have these jealousy panics the entire time she's gone, but I'm not going to let anyone know. I'll suck it up and move on.
But I didn't move on. It kept coming back to haunt me. And I would again tell myself to grow a pair and snap out of it. Finally, after 11 years, I confronted my wife with it. It didn't go well. She denies it happened. Doesn't remember. End of discussion. It's still with me.
I know she's lying. From what I've read about the clubbing scene on these sites, there is NO WAY she doesn't remember that summer. Probably fondly until I brought it up as an issue. A summer of partying with strange men. The flirting. The bottled up sexuality. The slow dances? Little kisses? The whole "he'll never find out" attitude. There's no way she doesn't remember. Lying to me about it confirms the worst probably happened. I feel I was cheated on for an entire summer, and I'm a p.u.s.s.y for having a problem with it. If it was a drunken screw in the back of a car after a single work dinner, everyone would understand how I could still be stressing over it. But a desire, an addictive craving to party with strange men over a 6 month period and proactive plans to do so and I need to get over it.
Little triggers bring back the memories. Bad memories of being home with the kids while my wife acted this way. Seeing the clubs she used to go to. Seeing stories on TV, in movies, forums, books, magazines and hearing in songs about the nightclub hookup. If they ever want to portray a sleazy meeting of men and women, it's ALWAYS the nightclubs. And the vision portrayed in this piece is VERY tame from what I've read on the subject. My wife did that 7 or so times. And I'll never have closure over it.
Anyone that defends this lifestyle for committed partners is being disingenuous. They are defending their ability to act this way with impunity. And if they really do go just to dance, they are being disingenuous by not admitting that there could be a BIG problem. Particularly if the clubbing wife acts like the ones that are cheating. Acts the way mine did.
Anyone that defends this lifestyle for committed partners is being disingenuous. They are defending their ability to act this way with impunity. And if they really do go just to dance, they are being disingenuous by not admitting that there could be a BIG problem. Particularly if the clubbing wife acts like the ones that are cheating. Acts the way mine did.
Husbands need to just ignore any of the noise that comes from supporters of this marriage deprecating life style. Without a forum for discussion on these things most men are isolated from any reasonable advice. Perhaos some have a cycle of savvy friends with experience in this area. The TAM forum has been very eye opening.
So a husband needs to have proper boundaries and be assertive in maintaining them. He should be a loving, compassionate, intelligent Lover, Friend, Husband and Father. He needs to lead his family. I believe personally in the way Athol expresses the Captain and the First Officer. BUT however the day to day operations occur a man must have his integrity or the marriage will not have integrity.
What am I saying? Do not let this even get started. Putting the genie back in the bottle is lose-lose.
Soemtimes this comes down to choice of partner to beigin with, however we are seeing that this phase can hit at any time. Sire if you marry a party girl she may or may not be able to adapt to a monogamous relationship, but there are no garantees that very stable young women cannot enter a time in their lives where they are seduced for whatever reason into this life style. Maybe in a very naive way.
I only read the first link but I wouldn`t say they had their husbands permission to act like ****s.
They had their husbands permission to go out with their friends not to grind men.
Sort of....Chassidic family dynamics are a bit different. It's not exactly welcomed but it's not forbidden either. In the Talmud it says (for men), it's more or less to see prostitutes as long as you don't do it in your own neighborhood. If the woman doesn't already have a gaggle of little kids to tend to then she's already on the fringe as it were. On the other hand it's not all that different from Mikvah nights out with the other girls. A little bit different not a lot different.
And FWIW there is a TON of bed hopping in some Chassidic communities (Yeah I'm looking at you Satmars)
I may have misread the first article. I thought she left the house and then in a very secretive manner changed into more provacative clothing. I did not get a sense that the husband really new what she was doing other than going out with her friends for a Girls Night Out. And of course this is the version of the story this person decided to write. How much is fiction?
That said, I agree tame as it goes. His ambivalence is her passport.
No. It's about respect for customs IN the home. Totally different sphere of life.
You are known for great wit and eclectic sarcasm. But I understand so little about this religion that I can;t tell if you are gicing us the straight scoop or being sarcastic.
I actaully would like to know whether these activities are so foreign to these folks or whether this is not uncommon. Inquiring minds want to know.
This is why I am done with religion. It has come to mean absolutely nothing. For most it is just a social club, and one full of questionable morals at that.
Religious Girls Night Out! 
